• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Drunk
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 8 of 8
    1. #1
      Senior Dog
      Annette47's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Central NJ
      Posts
      2,029
      Thanked: 1810

      Getting frustrated

      The past few shows Chloe has gone down on her sit-stay. No apparent physical reason as far as we can tell. I think she is just getting a little too relaxed in the show ring and forgets what she is supposed to be doing. Multiple people with OTCH’s on their dogs assure me this is just part of the process and something we have to train through, but it’s frustrating, because I really ought to pull her from Open and not show her until I am confident we have solved this, but of course she’s already entered in a bunch of shows including three this week at Potomac.

      Technically, since most OTCH points come from Utility anyway, I could never show her in Open again and still finish the OTCH, but that’s not how I want to do this.

      The most common suggestion I’ve been given is to have her do LONG sit-stays on our bed (softer surface makes them have to fight to hold the position) while I am relaxing (which cues them they can relax). I’ve been trying this the past few days and she keeps going down and then acts like she doesn’t understand why she is being corrected. I never thought that at this stage of her career I would find out she doesn’t really understand the difference between a sit stay and a down stay!

      We will get through this, but GRRR .....
      Annette

      Cookie (Jamrah’s Legally Blonde, BN) 6/4/2015
      Sassy (Jamrah’s Blonde Ambition, BN) 6/4/2015

      Chloe (HIT HC Windsong’s Femme Fatale, UDX2, OM4) 6/7/2009


      Remembering:
      Scully (Coventry's Truth Is Out There, UD, RN) 4/4/1996 - 6/30/2011
      Our foster Jolie (UCh Windsong’s Genuine Risk, CDX, WC) 5/26/1999 - 3/2/2014
      and Mulder (Coventry’s I Want to Believe, UD, VER, WC, RN) 5/26/1999 - 4/20/2015

      Hidden Content

    2. #2
      Senior Dog
      Labradorks's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2014
      Location
      USA
      Posts
      3,368
      Thanked: 1900
      My two cents, and you can take it or leave it...

      When this happens with people I train with, it's treated and dealt with as a stress situation if the dog is trained and it's not a physical issue. A lot of people come to my trainer when something like this happens and they have tried corrections or their trainer has used corrections and it's making it worse or not getting better. I know we use different methodologies in training and have different believes as to why our dogs are making mistakes, but most dogs don't do the wrong thing when they know what to do and are not feeling pain when they do it, but I think it's something to consider.

      Sorry for the frustration though. It's a bad feeling when you know your dog knows how to do something but for some reason they can't.

    3. #3
      Senior Dog
      Annette47's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Central NJ
      Posts
      2,029
      Thanked: 1810
      Quote Originally Posted by Labradorks View Post
      My two cents, and you can take it or leave it...

      When this happens with people I train with, it's treated and dealt with as a stress situation if the dog is trained and it's not a physical issue. A lot of people come to my trainer when something like this happens and they have tried corrections or their trainer has used corrections and it's making it worse or not getting better. I know we use different methodologies in training and have different believes as to why our dogs are making mistakes, but most dogs don't do the wrong thing when they know what to do and are not feeling pain when they do it, but I think it's something to consider.

      Sorry for the frustration though. It's a bad feeling when you know your dog knows how to do something but for some reason they can't.
      I’ve thought about that, but she isn’t showing signs of stress - she’s showing signs of boredom, which is almost the opposite in some ways. Her father did start to stress on the out of sight stays, which is why I retired him, and she is not acting like that at all. I think she forgets what she is supposed to be doing because she isn’t really thinking about it enough. This started about the time I noticed that she was beginning to really relax and have fun in the ring while doing the individual exercises. With those I like the relaxed attitude, but not so much with the stays, LOL.

      Among the things I am planning on trying is teaching her to sit on a platform (which is how we started the puppies but never did with her) - it’s hard to lay down if you are sitting on a platform, which forces them to think harder about their positioning even if we are not watching them. The problem is the platform is narrow and she doesn’t yet understand the concept of how to position herself on it in the first place, which is something I will be practicing with her during our downtime this week. It’s a similar idea to sitting on the bed, in that they have to actively fight to stay in position, but with sitting on the bed, when she doesn’t do it, I need to correct her (which I’m not sure she understands what she is being corrected for), while sitting on a platform ought to encourage her to do it right in the first place, so it can be rewarded.

    4. #4
      Senior Dog
      Labradorks's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2014
      Location
      USA
      Posts
      3,368
      Thanked: 1900
      Quote Originally Posted by Annette47 View Post
      I’ve thought about that, but she isn’t showing signs of stress - she’s showing signs of boredom, which is almost the opposite in some ways. Her father did start to stress on the out of sight stays, which is why I retired him, and she is not acting like that at all. I think she forgets what she is supposed to be doing because she isn’t really thinking about it enough. This started about the time I noticed that she was beginning to really relax and have fun in the ring while doing the individual exercises. With those I like the relaxed attitude, but not so much with the stays, LOL.

      Among the things I am planning on trying is teaching her to sit on a platform (which is how we started the puppies but never did with her) - it’s hard to lay down if you are sitting on a platform, which forces them to think harder about their positioning even if we are not watching them. The problem is the platform is narrow and she doesn’t yet understand the concept of how to position herself on it in the first place, which is something I will be practicing with her during our downtime this week. It’s a similar idea to sitting on the bed, in that they have to actively fight to stay in position, but with sitting on the bed, when she doesn’t do it, I need to correct her (which I’m not sure she understands what she is being corrected for), while sitting on a platform ought to encourage her to do it right in the first place, so it can be rewarded.
      I think dogs show stress in many different ways and sometimes it looks like boredom. But, you know your dog best. I think the platform is a good idea. For dogs without that awareness of hanging off the platform, we use a PVC box with the giant PVC tube. A friend created a box for her dog who was hanging off and out of stuff (zero body awareness) that looks like a wooden garden box, then graduated to PVC and finally, a plastic tray she found at IKEA and put some yoga mat stuff on both sides so it would not be slick.

    5. #5
      Senior Dog
      TuMicks's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      United States
      Posts
      2,028
      Thanked: 817
      Gosh... when it comes to Ob, you guys are way over my head. But FWIW: When we're doing drill work, and I'm giving commands too fast and/or she's had a couple of corrections, laying down is what she does. So that is a stress behavior for my hard driving field dog.

      And I don't know if this would work, but we use mats in field work. Sit on this mat, don't go beyond it with your front feet... if not, back to the holding blind.


      I made the mat smaller and smaller (now it's 1 foot square) and pretty much don't need it any more.

      But I might be talking apples and oranges.

    6. #6
      Senior Dog
      windycanyon's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2014
      Location
      C. WA
      Posts
      1,325
      Thanked: 970
      I hate when that happens.... Just sayin. I think our smart labs do very well w/ breaks in training. I just read a blog somewhere that confirmed exactly that, but can't remember who posted. Maybe it was a Monique (?) post on FB??? Breaks due to my work or breeding interruptions have worked well for me for the < Utility level anyhow.
      Hidden Content
      The WindyCanyon Girls, Fall 2016
      IntCh WindyCanyon's Ruby Pink BN CD RA CC (2.5 yrs)
      IntCH WindyCanyon's Envy CDX RE JH CC (8.5 yrs)
      IntCH WindyCanyon Patent Nfringement CDX RA JH CC (11 yrs)
      IntCH WindyCanyon's Northern Spy CDX RA JH OA OAJ CC (12.5 yrs)
      IntCH WindyCanyon's Kanzi BN CDX RE JH (3 yrs)
      IntCH HIT WindyCanyon's Kiku A Fuji Too CDX RE JH CC (8 yrs)
      IntCH WindyCanyon's SweeTango CD RA JH CC (7 yrs)






    7. #7
      Senior Dog
      Annette47's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Central NJ
      Posts
      2,029
      Thanked: 1810
      Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
      Gosh... when it comes to Ob, you guys are way over my head. But FWIW: When we're doing drill work, and I'm giving commands too fast and/or she's had a couple of corrections, laying down is what she does. So that is a stress behavior for my hard driving field dog.

      And I don't know if this would work, but we use mats in field work. Sit on this mat, don't go beyond it with your front feet... if not, back to the holding blind.


      I made the mat smaller and smaller (now it's 1 foot square) and pretty much don't need it any more.

      But I might be talking apples and oranges.
      Actually the mat concept is a good one and similar to the idea of making them sit on a platform - it’s usually something we do with young dogs who are just learning, not dogs who have been doing it for 7 years with no problems! I do wonder about stress, but I just don’t see why she would be all of a sudden stressing during stays now, when she’s been fine for years and it’s not like there have been any incidents or anything.

    8. #8
      Senior Dog
      Annette47's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Central NJ
      Posts
      2,029
      Thanked: 1810
      Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon View Post
      I hate when that happens.... Just sayin. I think our smart labs do very well w/ breaks in training. I just read a blog somewhere that confirmed exactly that, but can't remember who posted. Maybe it was a Monique (?) post on FB??? Breaks due to my work or breeding interruptions have worked well for me for the < Utility level anyhow.
      Yeah, I think a break would do her good - I’d just rather it not involve skipping shows we’ve already paid for! Plus, she’ll be 8 in June, so I do feel like there’s a bit of a ticking clock on this OTCH, even though she should have another couple good years in her.

    9. The Following User Says Thank You to Annette47 For This Useful Post:

      windycanyon (04-11-2017)

    Quick Reply Quick Reply

     



    Not a Member of the Labrador Retriever Chat Forums Yet?
    Register for Free and Share Your Labrador Retriever Photos

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •