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  1. #1
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    Getting frustrated

    The past few shows Chloe has gone down on her sit-stay. No apparent physical reason as far as we can tell. I think she is just getting a little too relaxed in the show ring and forgets what she is supposed to be doing. Multiple people with OTCH’s on their dogs assure me this is just part of the process and something we have to train through, but it’s frustrating, because I really ought to pull her from Open and not show her until I am confident we have solved this, but of course she’s already entered in a bunch of shows including three this week at Potomac.

    Technically, since most OTCH points come from Utility anyway, I could never show her in Open again and still finish the OTCH, but that’s not how I want to do this.

    The most common suggestion I’ve been given is to have her do LONG sit-stays on our bed (softer surface makes them have to fight to hold the position) while I am relaxing (which cues them they can relax). I’ve been trying this the past few days and she keeps going down and then acts like she doesn’t understand why she is being corrected. I never thought that at this stage of her career I would find out she doesn’t really understand the difference between a sit stay and a down stay!

    We will get through this, but GRRR .....
    Annette

    Cookie (HIT HC Jamrah's Legally Blonde, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015
    Sassy (HIT Jamrah's Blonde Ambition, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015

    Chloe (HIT HC OTCH Windsong's Femme Fatale, UDX4, OM6, RE) 6/7/2009

    And remembering:

    Scully (HC Coventry's Truth Is Out There, UD, TD, RN) 4/14/1996 - 6/30/2011
    Mulder (Coventry's I Want To Believe, UD, RN, WC) 5/26/1999 - 4/22/2015

    And our foster Jolie (Windsong's Genuine Risk, CDX) 5/26/1999 - 3/16/2014

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  2. #2
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
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    My two cents, and you can take it or leave it...

    When this happens with people I train with, it's treated and dealt with as a stress situation if the dog is trained and it's not a physical issue. A lot of people come to my trainer when something like this happens and they have tried corrections or their trainer has used corrections and it's making it worse or not getting better. I know we use different methodologies in training and have different believes as to why our dogs are making mistakes, but most dogs don't do the wrong thing when they know what to do and are not feeling pain when they do it, but I think it's something to consider.

    Sorry for the frustration though. It's a bad feeling when you know your dog knows how to do something but for some reason they can't.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labradorks View Post
    My two cents, and you can take it or leave it...

    When this happens with people I train with, it's treated and dealt with as a stress situation if the dog is trained and it's not a physical issue. A lot of people come to my trainer when something like this happens and they have tried corrections or their trainer has used corrections and it's making it worse or not getting better. I know we use different methodologies in training and have different believes as to why our dogs are making mistakes, but most dogs don't do the wrong thing when they know what to do and are not feeling pain when they do it, but I think it's something to consider.

    Sorry for the frustration though. It's a bad feeling when you know your dog knows how to do something but for some reason they can't.
    I’ve thought about that, but she isn’t showing signs of stress - she’s showing signs of boredom, which is almost the opposite in some ways. Her father did start to stress on the out of sight stays, which is why I retired him, and she is not acting like that at all. I think she forgets what she is supposed to be doing because she isn’t really thinking about it enough. This started about the time I noticed that she was beginning to really relax and have fun in the ring while doing the individual exercises. With those I like the relaxed attitude, but not so much with the stays, LOL.

    Among the things I am planning on trying is teaching her to sit on a platform (which is how we started the puppies but never did with her) - it’s hard to lay down if you are sitting on a platform, which forces them to think harder about their positioning even if we are not watching them. The problem is the platform is narrow and she doesn’t yet understand the concept of how to position herself on it in the first place, which is something I will be practicing with her during our downtime this week. It’s a similar idea to sitting on the bed, in that they have to actively fight to stay in position, but with sitting on the bed, when she doesn’t do it, I need to correct her (which I’m not sure she understands what she is being corrected for), while sitting on a platform ought to encourage her to do it right in the first place, so it can be rewarded.
    Annette

    Cookie (HIT HC Jamrah's Legally Blonde, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015
    Sassy (HIT Jamrah's Blonde Ambition, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015

    Chloe (HIT HC OTCH Windsong's Femme Fatale, UDX4, OM6, RE) 6/7/2009

    And remembering:

    Scully (HC Coventry's Truth Is Out There, UD, TD, RN) 4/14/1996 - 6/30/2011
    Mulder (Coventry's I Want To Believe, UD, RN, WC) 5/26/1999 - 4/22/2015

    And our foster Jolie (Windsong's Genuine Risk, CDX) 5/26/1999 - 3/16/2014

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  4. #4
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annette47 View Post
    I’ve thought about that, but she isn’t showing signs of stress - she’s showing signs of boredom, which is almost the opposite in some ways. Her father did start to stress on the out of sight stays, which is why I retired him, and she is not acting like that at all. I think she forgets what she is supposed to be doing because she isn’t really thinking about it enough. This started about the time I noticed that she was beginning to really relax and have fun in the ring while doing the individual exercises. With those I like the relaxed attitude, but not so much with the stays, LOL.

    Among the things I am planning on trying is teaching her to sit on a platform (which is how we started the puppies but never did with her) - it’s hard to lay down if you are sitting on a platform, which forces them to think harder about their positioning even if we are not watching them. The problem is the platform is narrow and she doesn’t yet understand the concept of how to position herself on it in the first place, which is something I will be practicing with her during our downtime this week. It’s a similar idea to sitting on the bed, in that they have to actively fight to stay in position, but with sitting on the bed, when she doesn’t do it, I need to correct her (which I’m not sure she understands what she is being corrected for), while sitting on a platform ought to encourage her to do it right in the first place, so it can be rewarded.
    I think dogs show stress in many different ways and sometimes it looks like boredom. But, you know your dog best. I think the platform is a good idea. For dogs without that awareness of hanging off the platform, we use a PVC box with the giant PVC tube. A friend created a box for her dog who was hanging off and out of stuff (zero body awareness) that looks like a wooden garden box, then graduated to PVC and finally, a plastic tray she found at IKEA and put some yoga mat stuff on both sides so it would not be slick.

  5. #5
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    Gosh... when it comes to Ob, you guys are way over my head. But FWIW: When we're doing drill work, and I'm giving commands too fast and/or she's had a couple of corrections, laying down is what she does. So that is a stress behavior for my hard driving field dog.

    And I don't know if this would work, but we use mats in field work. Sit on this mat, don't go beyond it with your front feet... if not, back to the holding blind.


    I made the mat smaller and smaller (now it's 1 foot square) and pretty much don't need it any more.

    But I might be talking apples and oranges.

  6. #6
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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    I hate when that happens.... Just sayin. I think our smart labs do very well w/ breaks in training. I just read a blog somewhere that confirmed exactly that, but can't remember who posted. Maybe it was a Monique (?) post on FB??? Breaks due to my work or breeding interruptions have worked well for me for the < Utility level anyhow.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
    Gosh... when it comes to Ob, you guys are way over my head. But FWIW: When we're doing drill work, and I'm giving commands too fast and/or she's had a couple of corrections, laying down is what she does. So that is a stress behavior for my hard driving field dog.

    And I don't know if this would work, but we use mats in field work. Sit on this mat, don't go beyond it with your front feet... if not, back to the holding blind.


    I made the mat smaller and smaller (now it's 1 foot square) and pretty much don't need it any more.

    But I might be talking apples and oranges.
    Actually the mat concept is a good one and similar to the idea of making them sit on a platform - it’s usually something we do with young dogs who are just learning, not dogs who have been doing it for 7 years with no problems! I do wonder about stress, but I just don’t see why she would be all of a sudden stressing during stays now, when she’s been fine for years and it’s not like there have been any incidents or anything.
    Annette

    Cookie (HIT HC Jamrah's Legally Blonde, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015
    Sassy (HIT Jamrah's Blonde Ambition, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015

    Chloe (HIT HC OTCH Windsong's Femme Fatale, UDX4, OM6, RE) 6/7/2009

    And remembering:

    Scully (HC Coventry's Truth Is Out There, UD, TD, RN) 4/14/1996 - 6/30/2011
    Mulder (Coventry's I Want To Believe, UD, RN, WC) 5/26/1999 - 4/22/2015

    And our foster Jolie (Windsong's Genuine Risk, CDX) 5/26/1999 - 3/16/2014

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon View Post
    I hate when that happens.... Just sayin. I think our smart labs do very well w/ breaks in training. I just read a blog somewhere that confirmed exactly that, but can't remember who posted. Maybe it was a Monique (?) post on FB??? Breaks due to my work or breeding interruptions have worked well for me for the < Utility level anyhow.
    Yeah, I think a break would do her good - I’d just rather it not involve skipping shows we’ve already paid for! Plus, she’ll be 8 in June, so I do feel like there’s a bit of a ticking clock on this OTCH, even though she should have another couple good years in her.
    Annette

    Cookie (HIT HC Jamrah's Legally Blonde, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015
    Sassy (HIT Jamrah's Blonde Ambition, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015

    Chloe (HIT HC OTCH Windsong's Femme Fatale, UDX4, OM6, RE) 6/7/2009

    And remembering:

    Scully (HC Coventry's Truth Is Out There, UD, TD, RN) 4/14/1996 - 6/30/2011
    Mulder (Coventry's I Want To Believe, UD, RN, WC) 5/26/1999 - 4/22/2015

    And our foster Jolie (Windsong's Genuine Risk, CDX) 5/26/1999 - 3/16/2014

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  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Annette47 For This Useful Post:

    windycanyon (04-11-2017)

 



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