Originally Posted by
Labradorks
Well, I don't know. I think heeling to the line is going to be my written homework this week for core concept skills progression. I can share what I have with you once I have submitted it and have received feedback. Our dogs are different, so there's that. I think yours would be more prone to frustration and end up making more noise and mine might be more prone to loss of motivation and end up becoming slow and possibly show avoidance behaviors. I agree. And "momentum" was always Bridget's failing. Maybe not to the degree of yours, (she got her MH) but I can visualize your problem. So, your goal is more along the line of holding your dog back, but without built up frustration and losing her mind and my goal is controlling my dog in an over-aroused state without destroying his motivation and drive. Or, something like that. Right.
Thinking out loud here... My thought is that I would start slower, easier, and build on that. I would get my criteria in order get it perfect without the distractions and build on that -- adding distractions and duration, possibly distance, too -- and only reward for criteria. With each progression, I will make it easy to start. Start in the yard, add distractions, go to a random field, add distractions, etc. So, even if he can go from blind to line in my back yard perfectly with some distractions, when I take it to a random field (no gunners or anything) I will take baby steps until it's perfect there; starting all over again from the beginning with each new location, but knowing I'll be able to move a little quicker as time goes on. Problem here is... in setting 1, with distractions A, and B... we're good. Setting 2 with A and B... good. Same setting add another distraction... good. And so on until she falls apart. Yes, I can go slower, more incremental. But when she picks her moment, she crashes and burns. (Like "I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY MORE!!!) It'll take time to go from "this is what we do" to "this is what we do now" because I have allowed him to be rewarded (the line to the bird) for less than stellar behavior, mostly because the pulling wasn't bad (it was just the disconnect) and I was focusing too much on technical marks (the fun stuff!), not behavior, partly because he is not that bad so I didn't recognize it as an issue. Uh huh. Like, now we're steady... and it's only a little squeeking. D'Oh!
It would be difficult for me to ask my dog to work, have success and not give him the reward (the bird). See below. And I am not sure what the purpose would be in doing that. I might ask for the dog to leave the final blind, do a little obedience or some fun obedience tricks on the way to the line (I'd have to build up to that, of course, but the goal would be that we may go straight to the line, we may not, we may just walk over here or do something else or go back to the blind or do a trick or two -- but ultimately I would communicate that he WILL get what he wants, just after he does what I want!) and then when we successfully make it to the line he consistently gets his reward. For us it's getting to the line -- final blind to line -- and not blind to bird where we have work to do.
I don't think I'd get to the line, have the bird come down and then ask for obedience work, re-line and send. I'm also not sure that a dog could easily or successfully mark a 75-100 yard mark, do some obedience work, then re-line and get sent for the mark and have success in cover, water and mud plus any huge distractions like gunners, blinds, dead ducks, scent, the gallery, trucks, etc. Yeah, but we can deal with that by focusing on the easiest mark in a triple set up. In a relatively featureless field, like a mowed school yard, that could probably work, but the picture is very, very different. I'm also teaching my dog to be solid on his marks, no head swinging and no looking up at me before the send. I want him to mark, wait and go when sent with a perfect line out and back. If I create a habit of mark, look up and go, that could be a problem (actually it already is and I'm in remedial marking at the moment.)
So, those are my thoughts...for now anyway.