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    1. #11
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      I'd think you need to be in the Advanced Beginner class (not Beginner). You can always audit/ watch the next level class sometime too, and work toward that but I think this one would be a better place for you since you'll be working harder on heeling and Stays.

      The other thought is Rally Obedience. I put my puppies directly into Rally Nov as early as possible to develop their obedience foundations. It's all on lead to begin with so a pup isn't going to get into much trouble and it gives them a legal way to get acclimated to the show grounds etc. I am taking Pip (8mos... terrible age, but she's doing pretty well really!) to an indoor venue tomorrow which will be her first indoor competition other than a puppy show at 4mos. I typically dislike indoor venues since they tend to be more congested and there are a lot of reactive dogs anymore, it seems (crate/ space protective) but think this will be okay since we aren't in the ring until after noon.
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    3. #12
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      For me a Rally trial is more like training than an obedience trial. While you can't use treats in either, in Rally you can talk to your dog during competition, it is much easier to keep your dogs attention when you can give a lot of verbal praise. In Beginner Novice obedience, you can give ONE verbal praise to the dog while healing and the figure 8, which isn't a lot, and once into novice, you can't talk to the dog at all, other than the initial command.

      I hadn't really planned on doing Rally this year with Brooks, but since he's still not ready (at least at the standard I want) for Novice Obedience. I figured it would good exposure the competitive environment.

    4. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by barry581 View Post
      For me a Rally trial is more like training than an obedience trial. While you can't use treats in either, in Rally you can talk to your dog during competition, it is much easier to keep your dogs attention when you can give a lot of verbal praise. In Beginner Novice obedience, you can give ONE verbal praise to the dog while healing and the figure 8, which isn't a lot, and once into novice, you can't talk to the dog at all, other than the initial command.

      I hadn't really planned on doing Rally this year with Brooks, but since he's still not ready (at least at the standard I want) for Novice Obedience. I figured it would good exposure the competitive environment.
      I had to laugh at myself when I had the pups in Beginner Novice. I never do Rally, so to me you NEVER talk in the ring. Even knowing we are allowed the one praise, I couldn’t bring myself to do it ... for me it’s either talk a lot (like in training) or not at all (like in competition). There’s no in between. Finally on the last day, I brought myself to say “that’s it” just to Sass on the figure 8, but I whispered it, LOL. Still felt very wrong!
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    6. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by barry581 View Post
      For me a Rally trial is more like training than an obedience trial. While you can't use treats in either, in Rally you can talk to your dog during competition, it is much easier to keep your dogs attention when you can give a lot of verbal praise. In Beginner Novice obedience, you can give ONE verbal praise to the dog while healing and the figure 8, which isn't a lot, and once into novice, you can't talk to the dog at all, other than the initial command.

      I hadn't really planned on doing Rally this year with Brooks, but since he's still not ready (at least at the standard I want) for Novice Obedience. I figured it would good exposure the competitive environment.

      Correct but it is a GREAT place to start obed. That's my point.... Heck I start my 6-8 mo olds in Rally Nov. Now they will be adding an Intermediate class which will still be on lead. Then you have Advanced w/ some added difficulty (pivots, jumps etc). And Excellent w/ some of the rudimentary starts to UD if you so desire.

      Obed is not really where I suggest a nov A person to start (anymore-- heck I was in Nov A for a whopping *10 days* 20 years+ ago!). BN helps but is still more challenging for a Nov A person or a very young pup than I'd now want but then we have had NO classes offered locally this past spring / summer so I've had to do all training on my own.

      I really don't like that some are using Rally as a place to go AFTER they've reached a dead end for their obed dog. Rally should be the starting point, and instructors (if decent) will instruct folks to wean off the chatter and luring. It's a great place for a new team though.

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    8. #15
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      Cool... I think this club offers Rally classes. I didn't know much about Rally and watched some Youtubes. I do notice a lot of heeling exercises and it looks great for us. The only thing that I see that might be a conflict will be... the back up with front finish. In the field, I've worked a LOT on back up with her backing up with me. (I mean... we can go backwards across a room if they wanted us to!) BUT, maybe I can work this with a whole different command or cue or something?

    9. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
      Cool... I think this club offers Rally classes. I didn't know much about Rally and watched some Youtubes. I do notice a lot of heeling exercises and it looks great for us. The only thing that I see that might be a conflict will be... the back up with front finish. In the field, I've worked a LOT on back up with her backing up with me. (I mean... we can go backwards across a room if they wanted us to!) BUT, maybe I can work this with a whole different command or cue or something?
      I think you tend to underestimate how smart our dogs are. Of course she can learn this as a separate/different thing! Just the fact you won’t be doing this while dressed in camo out in a field will let her know that this is a different venue and different things are expected of her. But definitely, use different commands anytime you think there might be a conflict. Another thing that helps my dogs is they have different collars for different activities. They know if they are wearing their “walk around the neighborhood” collars, they won’t be expected to perform precision heeling. Their “going for a hike/swim in the park” collar elicits a different reaction than their “going to class/show” collars. So get her a new collar that you only use for Rally/Obedience and only put it on her for classes - she’ll soon be able to differentiate.

      If dogs couldn’t distinguish between venues so well, I wouldn’t have been hearing about so much bad line behavior (whining, pulling etc) from well-accomplished Obedience dogs who were at the JH test at Nationals. They know better, but they also know they weren’t in an Obedience ring ....

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    11. #17
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      TuMicks you should have no problem teaching her a new command for the exercise. I have friend with a Toller who taught the command "ici", here in French to her dog. Her older Toller developed glaucoma and the younger one started attacking him. She taught the ici command which meant get your hind end over to me as fast as you can or there will be consequences.It really works well.

    12. #18
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      So there are several differences Rocket Dog will notice immediately. In field training, she's wearing her e-collar. And yes, this dog totally knows when there are real birds out there for her. When we're doing "street obedience" she is in a martingale. And I'm using "come" rather than "here" for bringing her in. I'm practicing this with a wall to our left so she cannot swing into heel position. It's not terrific right now, but she'll get it.

      I'm probably doing it all wrong. (And by that I mean ME... not the dog. I'm a motor moron, so there's nothing efficient or graceful about my handling.) But we went to a shopping mall with a bag of string cheese all cut up. And we worked on the moves I watched on the Rally youtubes. Now, the left turns, reverses and 270's were rocky, but only because she was surging a bit. So GREAT! I'm trying to get her to move with me in proper position for field purposes, and after a while she was exactly where she's supposed to be. Turning right... no problem.

      We actually went into PETSMART!!! (Can you believe it?) and she was pretty darn good, after we got past the cashiers.

      BUT... hey, hey, hey!!! Guess who's dog is doing a stand stay!!! Now this is without any attention from strangers, but she's got the command down and I can walk to the end of the leash and she remains standing. Ta DAH!!!

      Tomorrow we'll go back to the field to work on heeling and I'll put out more field equipment. The winger, a couple of white buckets, maybe fat white bumpers in the grass. But we'll only do obedience.

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    14. #19
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      It's great that there are a lot of novice beginner videos on youtube. And I'm watching bunches of them thinking "we can do better than that!" (Famous last words.) But my standards for heel after working the Hillmann program are a lot higher than I'm seeing. There are, of course, videos of flawless performances which I know I could never do, so it keeps me humble.

      I think I totally need to sign up for advanced beginner. Two caveats: One is I don't know the handling proscriptions. I'd for sure be dismissed for some mistake. The second is the environment. I think in the first few classes, she'll probably struggle to pay attention to me... which is exactly why we need to do this. It's about pay attention.

      We did Petsmart Saturday (it was a regular carnival in there.) She did really well. Even with kids and dogs there. Today we were in the park where there were middle-school kids running all over the place... off-lead... she was solid. Very, very good.

      Here is the description for "beginner obedience". I don't think this is where we belong. Am I wrong?

      Our Beginner Obedience class is a basic training course for dogs 6 months and older, aimed at training you to train your dog. For dogs under 1 year of age, you may also wish to consider our STAR Puppy Class. Emphasis is on the basic training needed to make the dog a good companion, walk on a loose leash, sit, stand, down, stay in position, and come when called. Information on nutrition, grooming and problem solving is usually offered. Makes an excellent starting point for dogs and handlers looking to prepare for the Canine Good Citizen test. During the classes all 10 steps of the Canine Good Citizen program will be taught and practices. Read more about the Canine Good Citizen program below.

    15. #20
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      The Beginner class sounds too basic for a dog that has as much training as yours does. I’m not sure what you mean by handling proscriptions? I’m assuming you mean what corrections/tools you can use? You can talk to them and get a sense of what they allow in the way of corrections to see how you think you’d fit in. There’s no standard method - it depends on the individual training center what they will be okay with. If you mean that you might use different command words or techniques or something like that, there is no one right way to do it, so that shouldn’t be a problem.

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