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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
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    1. #11
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      windycanyon's Avatar
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      I'm going to say some unpopular things here to some. The show breeders have been guilty, along w/ the field breeders, of parting ways from the STANDARD. I mean really, have ya'll seen some of the heads, coats and bodies lately in both venues?

      It's a cluster****. I just had my 18 mo old in for a rabies vax this past week. My vet used to breed / show / do obed etc Labs. She mentioned wanting to do a CC w/ her 5 yo (I think, maybe 7- 8 now, lol!). Very nice conformation but... like my Kanzi, under height (actually smaller than Kanzi) so will be DQd. She was a little surprised that the CC judges will wicket-- yes, out here in the NW if our NW LRC rep (who we all love and respect) is a judge, you betcha! What ticks me off is Kanzi is the same size as so many bitches being shown currently in the ring!

      So as Shelley said above, many judges (sorry Shelley but the specialty/ breeder types are even worse!) aren't judging by the LRC standard, though I am seeing a slight turn around in preferences. Why else are so many of the BOB, BOW's coming from the puppy classes?

      And the HEADS on both ends of the extreme spectrum, sorry but SO incorrect!!!!! We have Labs looking like freaking Mastiffs w/ weird shaped eyes (appear both entropic and ectropic at the same time), w/ heavy jowls, tons of bone, and huge dripping coats (very much NOT an easy keeper for a hunter) winning the points. And then there are the field dogs w/ round, light "doe" eyes, NO front (pointer like straight), no double coat as the whippet tail would show.

      It is what it is... JMO and I'm sticking to it.

      PS, So glad the chemo is treating you okay!!!!!! Been keeping you in my prayers though I'm not on that often!


      Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
      It's just frustrating. The breed (our breed) is cleaning up in all the field sports. We're hugely competitive in the Obedience ring. Lab breeders are doing everything right. I'm just sitting here watching Youtube and feeling like the football fanatic who sees the referees give their team one bad call after another. (Not a perfect analogy, but you get my drift.) I keep thinking "We was robbed."
      Last edited by windycanyon; 08-12-2018 at 07:20 PM. Reason: added a ps to TuMicks
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      IntCH WindyCanyon's Northern Spy CDX RA JH OA OAJ CC (13.5 yrs)
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    3. #12
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      For as much as I love my labs, they are kind of the "generic" DOG to me. They are perfectly plain. That's not a bad thing. Get the perfectly balanced bitch and she is exquisite.

    4. #13
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      While Labs are killing it in the field (though not Labs bred to standard and in some cases, not very Lab-like Labs) I was disappointed in the AKC numbers that came out a couple weeks ago. Goldens are really kicking our butts in obedience and many other sports... I think Labs are doing well in nosework in addition to field work. We still have some top Labs doing well, thank goodness. Flashy heeling is really popular and the Labs are not as good at it as the Goldens and other breeds. I think that's part of it...

    5. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Labradorks View Post
      While Labs are killing it in the field (though not Labs bred to standard and in some cases, not very Lab-like Labs) I was disappointed in the AKC numbers that came out a couple weeks ago. Goldens are really kicking our butts in obedience and many other sports... I think Labs are doing well in nosework in addition to field work. We still have some top Labs doing well, thank goodness. Flashy heeling is really popular and the Labs are not as good at it as the Goldens and other breeds. I think that's part of it...
      Part of why Goldens are doing so well is there are many more of them competing, at least around here. The Labs around here (the few, the proud!) can certainly hold their own against the Goldens and the Border Collies and it’s got nothing to with flashy heeling. Goldens tend to be an “easier” dog to work with than Labs as they (as a breed, obviously there are exceptions) tend to be more forgiving of bad handling. They keep trying even when the handler is inconsistent while Labs have more of a mind of their own, which when you get them to apply it makes them excellent workers (I would argue that a good Lab is even “flashier” than most Goldens) but they are more easily distracted into not giving it their all unless managed properly.
      Annette

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    6. #15
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      I have to agree with Annette - the reason that goldens are kicking lab butt in obedience is due to the # competing. There simply aren't many labs showing in obedience. I live in a very busy area for obedience and I often have the only lab at the trial, especially true if you are looking at the upper level classes.

      I do think golden breeders do a better job breeding for versatile working ability. There is a higher demand for working goldens than labs. They still have a huge split in the breed but in general, I feel like their dogs are more accomplished in performance venues than many of the labradors. Of course, that applies to non-field sports Our labs still rule there, no question!

      There are some awesome working labradors out there, just not many compared to the number of goldens in the sport.

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    8. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by indybindy View Post
      I have to agree with Annette - the reason that goldens are kicking lab butt in obedience is due to the # competing. There simply aren't many labs showing in obedience. I live in a very busy area for obedience and I often have the only lab at the trial, especially true if you are looking at the upper level classes.

      I do think golden breeders do a better job breeding for versatile working ability. There is a higher demand for working goldens than labs. They still have a huge split in the breed but in general, I feel like their dogs are more accomplished in performance venues than many of the labradors. Of course, that applies to non-field sports Our labs still rule there, no question!

      There are some awesome working labradors out there, just not many compared to the number of goldens in the sport.
      I mean, yeah. More Goldens = better numbers. But that means that people are choosing Goldens over Labs. Which is the root of the...problem?...not sure that is the right word.

      I had such a hard time finding a Lab litter that had strong bitch lines AND a sire that was more than conformation with a JH and a CD. I nearly got a Golden and there were so many GREAT breeders and litters to choose from. They do a great job of being successful in many venues. It was not hard to find an OTCH/MH/CH sire AND bitch litter. My next dog may very well be a Golden, but I want to do more research and figure out the lines I really like (temperament AND health because the cancer thing is bad) before going there.

      In regards to forgiveness, yes, that is something that we don't necessarily have with the Labs. On the other hand, working with a dog that is TOO forgiving has it's own set of issues and requires a different type of management.

    9. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Labradorks View Post
      I mean, yeah. More Goldens = better numbers. But that means that people are choosing Goldens over Labs. Which is the root of the...problem?...not sure that is the right word.

      I had such a hard time finding a Lab litter that had strong bitch lines AND a sire that was more than conformation with a JH and a CD. I nearly got a Golden and there were so many GREAT breeders and litters to choose from. They do a great job of being successful in many venues. It was not hard to find an OTCH/MH/CH sire AND bitch litter. My next dog may very well be a Golden, but I want to do more research and figure out the lines I really like (temperament AND health because the cancer thing is bad) before going there.
      Exactly - finding labradors like your new puppy (or any versatile working dog) are hard to find. Near impossible!

      Goldens are more popular in obedience for many reasons - but availability of nicely bred working dogs has to be a big part of that.

      I took a chance and bought a well bred field trial dog. The dog's parents/relatives have never done obedience, agility, etc but I figured that as long as the dog had the brains/work ethic to do a job, then I could train the rest. Just doing my part to create a versatile labrador, haha

      AND, now I realize that we are totally off topic as to why labradors are not winning against other breeds in the conformation ring. But it is similar to what we are seeing in other venues, I guess!

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