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  1. #11
    Senior Dog charliebbarkin's Avatar
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    We paid big $ to train just like Annette and windycanyon described! You should send them some cookies or something hehe!

    Anyway, yes, we were taught to train just as they said. We started with just using our hand, thumb under the chin and fingers in the mouth. I wore a glove (not worried about biting, it was for the slobber!). Same thing, put the hand in, say hold, and I would say drop to have him release. It was just a few seconds - 5 holds 3x day. I think next we did bigger bumpers actually, because they were easier to hold than something small like a dumbbell. And yes, just open the mouth and place it there, close the mouth and say hold. If he starts to open his mouth I would just tap under his chin lightly with my hand and say hold again. I didn't give treats, I just told him he was sooooo gooooood and would pet him occasionally.
    Charlie and Burton


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    Scoutpout (09-09-2014), windycanyon (09-09-2014)

  3. #12
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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    Snowshoe, all the field books I have read on the topic over the years introduce the Hold first and I think there is sound reasoning behind that. I was working w/ some dogs who had been struggling w/ the concept (had been doing clicker training), and soon realized that they had never been taught Hold. Once we did ~2 wks of that (stationary/sit, then standing, then walking/heeling), they dovetailed into Taking the objects just fine, and then mouth manners don't seem to be a problem either. The people who gloss over the Hold are the ones typically w/ the chewing/rolling/spitting issues. Not pretty, esp if birds are involved!
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    IntCH WindyCanyon's Ruby Pink BN CD RA CC (4.5 yrs)
    IntCH WindyCanyon's Kanzi BN CDX RE JH (5 yrs)
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    IntCH WindyCanyon's Envy CDX RE JH CC (10.5 yrs)
    IntCH HIT WindyCanyon's Kiku A Fuji Too CDX RE JH CC (10 yrs)







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    Scoutpout (09-09-2014)

  5. #13
    Senior Dog Snowshoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon View Post
    Snowshoe, all the field books I have read on the topic over the years introduce the Hold first and I think there is sound reasoning behind that. I was working w/ some dogs who had been struggling w/ the concept (had been doing clicker training), and soon realized that they had never been taught Hold. Once we did ~2 wks of that (stationary/sit, then standing, then walking/heeling), they dovetailed into Taking the objects just fine, and then mouth manners don't seem to be a problem either. The people who gloss over the Hold are the ones typically w/ the chewing/rolling/spitting issues. Not pretty, esp if birds are involved!
    REally? We didn't know that though, and didn't intend to do field work at first so Oban learned it the other way around, and was not tested on it as we're not doing that now. The clicker sequence we were following was from a U.K. gun dog site. It was far too slow for us and it's no longer on the web and the yahoo group set up to discuss it is defunct now so I wouldn't be surprised if we weren't the only ones to find it didn't work well. Oban did well when we used it for obedience though, but again, we were not tested and now can't do that.

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    Scoutpout (09-09-2014)

  7. #14
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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    I find SO many glaring omissions in clicker training (esp of the retrieving part) I can hardly contain myself. Some of my own pup owners have been sucked into the fad w/ some awful results.

    Really, my baby (Kanzi) has been delivering to hand w/ no formal training other than Hold right now (and has since 7 wks w/ nothing!) so I guess I just don't buy into all the hype. She is doing ducks, pigeons, etc off of wingers in my field.
    I do what works and has worked for eons. It's not cruel.... dang, I do all my Hold work 99% aversive free (the aversive is the occasional NO-- Hold-- thump on the muzzle). My puppy is wanting to do Hold all the time because she LOVES it.

    Excuse my butt here, but this was Kanzi at 17 wks on a dumbbell retrieve. She was intro'd to a 12" jump today for the retrieve as well as the broad jump (just 2 boards due to her small size) but really, our dogs CAN do a LOT more than we apparently expect of them if this is the case of babies..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41AhO4cz5DI Oh yes, same pup is taking Rally Obedience and will be entered in trials in 2.5 wks once she's 6 mos. She's obviously having fun w/ the training or Id not be doing it.
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    IntCH WindyCanyon's Northern Spy CDX RA JH OA OAJ CC (14.5 yrs)
    IntCH WindyCanyon's Ruby Pink BN CD RA CC (4.5 yrs)
    IntCH WindyCanyon's Kanzi BN CDX RE JH (5 yrs)
    IntCH WindyCanyon ItsOnlyMoneyHoneycrisp BN RN CC (16mos)
    IntCH WindyCanyon's Pippin BN RI CC (2.5 yrs)
    IntCH WindyCanyon's Envy CDX RE JH CC (10.5 yrs)
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  8. #15
    Senior Dog Scoutpout's Avatar
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    from Scout's diary....
    Day 7 since my human starting sticking that white thing then various other objects into my sensitive mouth. I still do not understand the point to this - she KNOWS i use my mouth to pick up interestings objects to bring to her and show her, and I usually humour her when she throws them far away and tells me to get them again. But this, this, this INCESSANT stuffing of things into my mouth, I have NO patience for it! Perhaps if I continue my very polite (I remain in the Sit-Stay I've been placed in for this torture) refusal, she will give up.... Hope, there is always hope for that. I remain,
    Yours, Determined


    Honestly, its still something he doesn't understand at all what I am looking for. I tried something different last night, and had success for the 3 short holds we did. I used one of those rawhide bones thats knotted at both ends. He doesn't get rawhide to chew (pig hide chews instead). THAT he's not trying to spit out, mouth, roll around etc. So I think I will continue with that object until I can hopefully get the connection between holding that in his mouth in the Sit-Stay, and the word Hold. Then introduce different objects again. He sits in his sit stay, and won't even look at me when I'm trying to get him to take the object to hold, turns his head politely but firmly, etc. sigh. one day, dear dog, one day....
    Last edited by Scoutpout; 09-14-2014 at 11:06 PM.

 



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