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Thread: Need some help

  1. #1
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    Need some help

    Bruce did one set of rally classes which ended in February. I didn't sign him up for the next round due to my UK trip, and I'd have missed 2 of the six classes, and they were still going to charge me full price. Between me being gone, and the miserable weather we've had this winter, and now into spring, it's been hard to get consistent training done. We do start a new class on April 8.

    Two of the problem areas I'm having are STAND, and HEALING BACKWARDS. I can get him to stand and stay in place, but I can't get him to stay when I walk around him. He will turn in the opposite direction I'm walking, so he can see me coming around. He does fine when sitting or down. Healing backwards doesn't seem to be in his genes. As soon as I start moving backwards, he sits.

    Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!

  2. #2
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    Hmm ... if he is moving to watch you on the stand, then he doesn’t really get “STAY” yet, so I would work more on that piece before trying to walk around him. One thing that can be helpful is to put gentle tension on a buckle collar while reminding them to stay - it helps them learn to fight to stay in position. Once he’s good at that, you can practice moving from side to side in from of him, and rewarding that, gradually extending how far around you go. If he moves, reposition him with a verbal correction “I said STAY” and try again.

    As for heeling backwards, that took Chloe forever to learn, but it is helpful to do it next to a wall so they can’t swing out of position, and just keep encouraging him to “back”, praising when he gets it. Has he learned attention in heel position? We do something called a moving watch, where they learn to watch our faces while we move around, so they learn they need to move when we do in order to maintain eye contact (spitting treats helps with this). We do this as a first step before teaching heeling, but it comes in handy when we want to teach the backing up, as they already know they need to keep watching us and as we back up they already know they need to move to maintain eye contact ... doing it next to a wall teaches them HOW to move to keep watching us (i.e. to back up rather than turn around towards us).
    Last edited by Annette47; 03-29-2015 at 08:14 PM.
    Annette

    Cookie (HIT HC Jamrah's Legally Blonde, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015
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    Mulder (Coventry's I Want To Believe, UD, RN, WC) 5/26/1999 - 4/22/2015

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  3. #3
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    He's actually very good at watching me when we are working. I can put him in a sit or down stay, and walk 50-60 yards away, and he's good. I can walk in circles around him out to about 20 yards and he won't budge. He knows what stay means.

    I can have him healing while walking, and have him stand, and walk forward from him 20 to 30 feet no issue. I can also walk backwards from him 10 feet or so no issue. If I have him stop/stand and I stay in place all is good, once I start to walk around him, if I tell him to STAY, his butt hits the ground, if I say nothing, as I pass around his butt, he will turn into me. Although when I did this on our walk tonight, he did it correctly! Maybe, just maybe it's sinking in!!!

    It's funny, as he learned SIT in about 3 seconds. I think it's his default position. Down took him about two months to figure out! He picked up HEEL really quick too. It's funny how they just get it with some things and others, they just struggle with.

    I've been doing the back as you recommend. I figure it's going to be just one of those things that's going to take a while!

  4. #4
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    It took Chloe a long time to realize stay was a position, not a location. She didn’t see the difference if she sat, stood, or lay down as long as she didn’t go anywhere, LOL.

    I’m sure he’ll get the backing up concept - it took a while for her, but now she’s pretty good at it and treats it like a game.
    Annette

    Cookie (HIT HC Jamrah's Legally Blonde, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015
    Sassy (HIT Jamrah's Blonde Ambition, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015

    Chloe (HIT HC OTCH Windsong's Femme Fatale, UDX4, OM6, RE) 6/7/2009

    And remembering:

    Scully (HC Coventry's Truth Is Out There, UD, TD, RN) 4/14/1996 - 6/30/2011
    Mulder (Coventry's I Want To Believe, UD, RN, WC) 5/26/1999 - 4/22/2015

    And our foster Jolie (Windsong's Genuine Risk, CDX) 5/26/1999 - 3/16/2014

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annette47 View Post
    It took Chloe a long time to realize stay was a position, not a location. She didn’t see the difference if she sat, stood, or lay down as long as she didn’t go anywhere, LOL.

    I’m sure he’ll get the backing up concept - it took a while for her, but now she’s pretty good at it and treats it like a game.
    I think Bruce has the same concept. I'll sit/stay him and walk away, I turn and look and he's laying down. I go back, put him in a sit, and we're good. Same with the long distance stays, I'll get 30-40 yards, and look over my shoulder and he'll be standing, right in the same spot. I'll raise my hand in a SIT signal, and his butt hits the ground. Even with the long distance stays, I'll return to him about 75% of the time, the other 25% I'll call him, and he runs to me full speed. So I know he understands that STAY mean don't move.

    Isn't it funny how they just get certain things, and struggle with others????

  6. #6
    Senior Dog Charlotte K.'s Avatar
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    It sounds as though Bruce may be ready for Beginner Novice or Pre-Novice obedience if he can heel without chatter before he backs. Maybe he just needs time to process it and grow up. Is there any where you can do run thrus or matches if class is out for now? You may also want to go to those Delaware shows with him even if he is not entered.

    Actually, you do not need to heel backwards until Excellent level of Rally. It is a good skill to have, even in a small room or to get into position in the ring or a hallway. So practice those Novice signs if you are entered in Penn Treaty this spring.
    Last edited by Charlotte K.; 03-31-2015 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Correct KC name!

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  8. #7
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    Charlotte- that's one the things that messes me up, is in the class we do things that are advanced or excellent level. Makes it kinda tough for a beginner like me to know what I need to concentrate on. Bruce has been healing off leash since he was about 4 months old. He just gets it. He is such a good boy, and I just want to help him be the best dog he can be. I'm so limited here with classes and trainers, it's pathetic. We had two ladies from our class who got their RN titles in the past couple weeks, and honestly, Bruce was better than both of those dogs. My limitations hinder his progress. I love where I live, but sometimes, I just wish I had access to really good classes and trainers.

    On a side note, I've tried to find a good gundog class here. Zero. Zip. Nada. I'm on my own with this too.

  9. #8
    Senior Dog Charlotte K.'s Avatar
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    Did you print out your Novice signs for practice at home? If he is that good and you know the signs and rules, you may want to enter that local trial. You might also be able to get a private lesson from your instructor in which you go over the tricky signs and/or have a run through with signs.

  10. #9
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    Hi Barry! Here are a few things that have helped me with my guys having the same issues you are. In fact, a few of these tips I picked up from here.

    For the stay, Burton was the same with stand. Down and Sit are good but Stand he would move. Using a platform was super helpful. I first had to train him to keep his front feet on the platform. It really can be anything, even paper plates, but I used my Wii Fit board. He learned to keep his feet planted in the stand stay doing that. He had to have it really solid before I took away the board, but it didn't take long. Lots of praise when he stood still, and the light went off rather quickly.

    For walking backward, against a wall as suggested but I also used a swiffer sweeper I took apart as a bar to put in front of Charlie as we walked backward, to keep him from moving forward.

    Another thing I found really helpful, in class we did commands from behind the dog. Sometimes on leash and sometimes not. The more we practiced position changes with stays behind them, the more they got comfortable with just doing it and not turning their heads. That helped with stand stays because they learned to just stay in that position no matter where the handler is.

    Good luck! Sounds like you guys are doing awesome!
    Charlie and Burton


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  12. #10
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    A lot of good suggestions here!!!! Thanks everyone!!!

 



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