Six days to RA for Kanzi

[Tanya]

Congrats! that's amazing, I am always so impressed when such young dogs can do that

[POPTOP]

Congratulations! Sweet accomplishments.

[windycanyon]

Congrats! that's amazing, I am always so impressed when such young dogs can do that

They CAN do it, that's been the point of my "experiment". I try to start w/ good foundations right off the bat so I don't have as much re-teaching/ correcting... it's amazing how many people don't see it that way though.

I have 4mo old Ruby in Rally class now. I am behind since Russell (her pick brother) just left 2 wks ago, but we are hoping to get caught up. Definitely a sillier lab than Kanzi and not quite as focused, so time will tell.

Oh funny thing, Russell's owner emailed me last night saying that he delivers to hand most of the time... and did I teach him that? Yes! I am a lazy trainer, so try to teach all the good habits early in life thru a fun game style (catch the bird on the fly, then toss it again so they realize they are in charge of making that bird go again!). Oye though... 104F today. It is hard to get motivated when it's that hot.

[Tanya]

impressive! But I can see how starting from day 1 is easier (and obviously the right lines behind the dog helps!).

I hope to try one day with a pup of my own (where I can start right away and hopefully pick a breeder that start some good habits too). I fear I don't have great motiviation with training though, so will need to put a game plan together and stick to it! I am pretty bad about being lazy with expected responses when I am in a hurry or don't feel like following-thru which is a big no no in training.

[Labradorks]

Disclaimer: I'm not saying Windycanyon made a mistake or her dog(s) are having a hard time or going to have a hard time in the future. But, based on some of the comments -- not the original post -- I just want to put out there that much of when you trial depends on your dog's temperament and your training style. If your dog is definitely ready, that's awesome and you should go for it! But there is no reason to be in a big hurry, and IMHO, the goal should be to trial when the dog is ready (regardless of age) not by X age or getting a title or titles by X age (like I did).

I highly regret trialing my dog at such a young age. Some dogs can take it, but many can't, and when you trial them too early (before they are ready), it takes time to undo any damage, as I am finding out now. Linus won every class we entered, and had his RN and BN at 12 months and one week of age, not to mention his GCG. I should not have gone in and/or I should have stopped after our first trial. Despite being stressed, which I did not recognize at the time, I continued on. If I could do it over, I would have waited. I am a novice; I don't have anyone to impress and I had nothing to prove. Had I waited, he would have done just as well, probably better, and he would have been happier, which is very important to me.

Despite going to 2 - 4 training classes per week, consistently from the age of 10 weeks, socializing, and working with him, there are steps to take that I did not. For example, teaching a dog that silence means that they are doing the right thing, and will be followed by a reward. Also, teaching personal play as a reward since you cannot bring toys or food into a ring. Ring games would have been good. Even though I went to many matches, I basically practiced like it was a trial, and wasted some great opportunities to work with my dog on rings being a good thing. I also did not I generalize his behaviors in lots of different environments. Etc., etc., etc. Building ring confidence is one of the most neglected areas of trial preparation, and can be fairly serious in certain dogs.

My dog is sensitive and cares very much about pleasing me and doing the right thing. This isn't a bad thing! But it's something to consider with training, trialing, and succeeding in competitive events. I have also found out that trialing too soon is super common and pretty much every great trainer out there did it, too, and has a story about it. Apparently, nearly everyone who has ever trialed started before their dog was ready. So, at least I am in good company! And, it helps me not beat myself up. We all have our training wheel dogs, after all.

Oh, and the WC doesn't count. That type of stuff is completely self-rewarding.

[windycanyon]

I am not advocating early *trialing* regardless of if the dog is ready or not, so don't even think that, Labradorks! I'm not sure where you got that notion.

I've been trialing since 1997, and was fortunate to have an instructor early on who laughed at me when I asked if my girl was ready for Novice obed (her CD--- there were no such things as Rally and BN back then).

I follow the field trainers' philosophy in trying to "underwhelm" my dogs when it comes to trialing/ testing. I honestly think that far too many in obedience are over drilling their dogs though-- boring them to death and making them question if they are even doing the main components correct when they are doing so much repitition. Some are sucking the life blood out of their dogs, so the dogs basically say, wth... I get more reward from sniffing, etc.

I am using Rally and BN and such to make the foundation stages more upbeat and fun, and to get them into shows and into the ring, teach them that it is not the scary stressful place that so many dogs seem to think it is.

So no, I am NOT advocating early *trialing* of just any dog at any level. I'm advocating early TRAINING and consistency of that training and feel our dogs CAN be prepared much earlier if we as owners just get our stuff together and stop sending mixed messages to our dogs.

And btw, Kanzi is VERY soft-- she got that from her mother Envy who also was quite precocious w/ her training (CDX at age 2). I think Ruby (the sillier type) will handle stress and corrections much better actually (because there ARE corrections here and in life), but she will take longer to mature if she's anything like her mom. So no, I've not signed and sealed my entry for her in Rally in 2 mos just yet because we have some weeks of training ahead of us. All dogs are different, but consistency of training from early on is sure helpful!

We did have one moment there at the trial on Friday where Kanzi yawned when 2 big male Newfs walked by, and I knew then I had a little bit of a problem to fix w/ that breed. I redirected her focus on WORK and after our run, sought out a woman sitting there w/ a very sweet female Newf who was more than happy to help reassure Kanzi w/ the breed. (She was pretty upset that we had had a bad incident w/ a Newf at our BN classes!). I'm pretty sure the meatballs that gal had for treats helped too, but her girl was right there, snuggling, and being very kind and gentle to Kanzi and Kanzi was like "yea, you're cool... and so is your mom!". Now hopefully Kanzi knows that one bad apple didn't make them all bad but what a great training opportunity that was at the trial. We may have missed that had we stayed away from the big intimidating doggies.

As for the different environments, that was one thing I coached my friend on w/ a golden who is stressing. She's not making near enough effort to get her dog out to train at different places. This weekend we have a doggy health fair where our club will have a rally / obed set up and do demos. You guessed it, Kanzi and Ruby will be working it, and I hope my friend will bring her dog too.

[windycanyon]

impressive! But I can see how starting from day 1 is easier (and obviously the right lines behind the dog helps!).

I hope to try one day with a pup of my own (where I can start right away and hopefully pick a breeder that start some good habits too). I fear I don't have great motiviation with training though, so will need to put a game plan together and stick to it! I am pretty bad about being lazy with expected responses when I am in a hurry or don't feel like following-thru which is a big no no in training.

You are not alone. I'm not a terribly motivated trainer either, but the basic need for a well mannered, responsive dog, keeps me on the right path. In the past, I've made out a "goal list" for the year for each young dog and that helps me stay on course. It was written on my office desk pad, so I had to look at it often and be honest w/ myself. I don't do that so much anymore, though my goals / hopes are still there. For now, just having the 2 youngsters enrolled in a class is good enough motivation for me to keep plugging along because if I don't perform, my instructors are going to chew me out!!!

[Labradorks]

I am not advocating early *trialing* regardless of if the dog is ready or not, so don't even think that, Labradorks! I'm not sure where you got that notion.

I've been trialing since 1997, and was fortunate to have an instructor early on who laughed at me when I asked if my girl was ready for Novice obed (her CD--- there were no such things as Rally and BN back then).

I follow the field trainers' philosophy in trying to "underwhelm" my dogs when it comes to trialing/ testing. I honestly think that far too many in obedience are over drilling their dogs though-- boring them to death and making them question if they are even doing the main components correct when they are doing so much repitition. Some are sucking the life blood out of their dogs, so the dogs basically say, wth... I get more reward from sniffing, etc.

I am using Rally and BN and such to make the foundation stages more upbeat and fun, and to get them into shows and into the ring, teach them that it is not the scary stressful place that so many dogs seem to think it is.

So no, I am NOT advocating early *trialing* of just any dog at any level. I'm advocating early TRAINING and consistency of that training and feel our dogs CAN be prepared much earlier if we as owners just get our stuff together and stop sending mixed messages to our dogs.

And btw, Kanzi is VERY soft-- she got that from her mother Envy who also was quite precocious w/ her training (CDX at age 2). I think Ruby (the sillier type) will handle stress and corrections much better actually (because there ARE corrections here and in life), but she will take longer to mature if she's anything like her mom. So no, I've not signed and sealed my entry for her in Rally in 2 mos just yet because we have some weeks of training ahead of us. All dogs are different, but consistency of training from early on is sure helpful!

We did have one moment there at the trial on Friday where Kanzi yawned when 2 big male Newfs walked by, and I knew then I had a little bit of a problem to fix w/ that breed. I redirected her focus on WORK and after our run, sought out a woman sitting there w/ a very sweet female Newf who was more than happy to help reassure Kanzi w/ the breed. (She was pretty upset that we had had a bad incident w/ a Newf at our BN classes!). I'm pretty sure the meatballs that gal had for treats helped too, but her girl was right there, snuggling, and being very kind and gentle to Kanzi and Kanzi was like "yea, you're cool... and so is your mom!". Now hopefully Kanzi knows that one bad apple didn't make them all bad but what a great training opportunity that was at the trial. We may have missed that had we stayed away from the big intimidating doggies.

As for the different environments, that was one thing I coached my friend on w/ a golden who is stressing. She's not making near enough effort to get her dog out to train at different places. This weekend we have a doggy health fair where our club will have a rally / obed set up and do demos. You guessed it, Kanzi and Ruby will be working it, and I hope my friend will bring her dog too.

As I said in my post: "Disclaimer: I'm not saying Windycanyon made a mistake or her dog(s) are having a hard time or going to have a hard time in the future. But, based on some of the comments -- not the original post -- I just want to put out there that much of when you trial depends on your dog's temperament and your training style."

Never said you were advocating, just making a comment based on some of the responses in regards to age.

Sometimes people do everything right, with exception of one minor thing, one step, or they don't tailor the plan to the dog, and still have problems in the ring. It's very common, and very frustrating when you know your dog can perform brilliantly outside of the ring. Also, some people don't go through any steps and their dog is fine. It really depends on the dog. It also depends on the person's goals though. My dog can do everything required, just not happily or with the motivation and style I like to see. At least not inside the ring. I could get his CD tomorrow, but I would not do that to my dog. I have seen dogs title that go around the ring whale-eyed, slinking, with their tail between their legs and the owner only cares that they qualified. Much of that can be from not preparing for trial. I'd rather not trial at all then have that picture in the ring.

[windycanyon]

You obviously have your regrets, but it's good you are learning from them. It takes awhile... for me, it was my 3rd generation CDX dog (Rosa) before I had my training program really well organized. Hunt tests helped a lot w/ that but that was also when Rally became an AKC venue. I was lukewarm about rally at first, but now see the value of it for preparation in traditional obed and suggest all my pup owners to start there. My dogs are much more relaxed in the obed ring now and I think I owe a lot of it to rally. Hopefully Ruby's class will be as beneficial to her as it was to Kanzi last year.

[Labradorks]

You obviously have your regrets, but it's good you are learning from them. It takes awhile... for me, it was my 3rd generation CDX dog (Rosa) before I had my training program really well organized. Hunt tests helped a lot w/ that but that was also when Rally became an AKC venue. I was lukewarm about rally at first, but now see the value of it for preparation in traditional obed and suggest all my pup owners to start there. My dogs are much more relaxed in the obed ring now and I think I owe a lot of it to rally. Hopefully Ruby's class will be as beneficial to her as it was to Kanzi last year.

Linus hates rally. Sam loves it. Same training, different temperaments. :-\