Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 91
  1. #11
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,947
    Thanked: 2421
    Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
    Your classes might be selecting for a particular type of dog, not just a particular type of owner. In any event, hard and fast rules make cross-pollenization across disciplines less likely. I guess that is the disappointing part about it for me. I don't want to make the gals at No-Name-Obedience Club into Mike Lardy devotees. I honestly think RD could do Rally-novice right now. She's not far from Rally Beginner since she heels better off-lead than on. It would have been fun to try. But we won't get that chance.
    Rally Novice (RN) is on-leash. You go off-lead in RA. However, you can practice anyway you want to. If you want to trial, you have to get your RA before you can get your RN.

  2. #12
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,366
    Thanked: 1096
    There is no question that people misuse e-collars. We see it on the field side as well. I did do water force with RD (and Bridget as well) but on a very low setting and... to tell you the truth... she showed me that she is a water-fiend. I was amazed. It was the sort of situation where I would like to say we did proper "water force" but she didn't give me the chance. BAM... baby. Show me the water. I'm IN IT. And she is inordinately "honest". She doesn't try to cheat a shore. She WANTS to swim the length of the water. It's crazy. The breeder told me the bitch was like this and my pup would be a "good water dog" and I thought... yeah, yeah, yeah... they all say that." But...

    But that is RD for you. A dog of surprises. She's writing her own rules.

    But the "flip side" of the coin is that most people don't train their dogs at all, or they use treats (appropriately) to teach the dog "sit", "here", "down" etc. and what they've done is simply teach the dog the vocabulary. They haven't taught the dog that obedience is not optional. Which is why these folks get dragged down the side-walk or into the face of MY dog when we're on the trail near my home. If these people ONLY used an e-collar to teach their dog a recall, nothing else... that dog would be safer and healthier, as would mine.

    Still... I think Ob could be fun. We'll never really know.

  3. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TuMicks For This Useful Post:

    Annette47 (07-09-2015), barry581 (07-08-2015), Georgia (07-09-2015)

  4. #13
    Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Greenwood, Delaware
    Posts
    7,348
    Thanked: 7148
    Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
    There is no question that people misuse e-collars. We see it on the field side as well. I did do water force with RD (and Bridget as well) but on a very low setting and... to tell you the truth... she showed me that she is a water-fiend. I was amazed. It was the sort of situation where I would like to say we did proper "water force" but she didn't give me the chance. BAM... baby. Show me the water. I'm IN IT. And she is inordinately "honest". She doesn't try to cheat a shore. She WANTS to swim the length of the water. It's crazy. The breeder told me the bitch was like this and my pup would be a "good water dog" and I thought... yeah, yeah, yeah... they all say that." But...

    But that is RD for you. A dog of surprises. She's writing her own rules.

    But the "flip side" of the coin is that most people don't train their dogs at all, or they use treats (appropriately) to teach the dog "sit", "here", "down" etc. and what they've done is simply teach the dog the vocabulary. They haven't taught the dog that obedience is not optional. Which is why these folks get dragged down the side-walk or into the face of MY dog when we're on the trail near my home. If these people ONLY used an e-collar to teach their dog a recall, nothing else... that dog would be safer and healthier, as would mine.
    For the most part I think you hit the nail on the head. However, I also think if your dog can do the basics for Rally or other OB work, you really don't need an E-collar. All the work is close in. I don't use an e-collar, but I'm not against them at all, I think they have there place when you need to make corrections and control at a distance. I say challenge yourself and your dog, and do the class without the collar. You may just surprise yourself.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to barry581 For This Useful Post:

    Annette47 (07-09-2015)

  6. #14
    Senior Dog Maxx&Emma's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    SE, PA
    Posts
    4,406
    Thanked: 1992
    Quote Originally Posted by barry581 View Post
    For the most part I think you hit the nail on the head. However, I also think if your dog can do the basics for Rally or other OB work, you really don't need an E-collar. All the work is close in. I don't use an e-collar, but I'm not against them at all, I think they have there place when you need to make corrections and control at a distance. I say challenge yourself and your dog, and do the class without the collar. You may just surprise yourself.
    I have to agree with this, why not try?

    And for the record, I taught my dog to heel on a leash and recall without an e-collar. Obedience is not an option or we could never do the therapy work we do. I can't imagine taking an obnoxious, untrained dog in to a hospital or library setting. I doubt we would be asked to come back.
    Hidden Content

    Tammy
    Maxx and Emma Jean

    Ozzy - 10/2002 - 06/2011 - Rest well my sweet boy. You are forever remembered, forever missed, forever in my heart.

  7. #15
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,366
    Thanked: 1096
    I think I would probably do close in ring-type sports w/out the e-collar. ('Cause, hey! I'd be doing this to learn new things, right?) BUT... to get RD in the building, past (or among) a bunch of strange dogs and people, I couldn't do it with a shoe string around her neck. I mean, she doesn't know about the ring, the rubber mats, the reverberation of noise that happens in a big empty building, the smells of dogs present and past... dogs all around her getting cookies. Do you know what happens in our kitchen when LeeRoy or Bridget get a plate or a cookie????? It's a friggin' rugby scrum.

    Look, with a dog like RD, going in with her in a tether and me with cookies in my pocket would be complete pandemonium. The old gals at No-Name Dog Obedience and Lace Doilies Club have no idea what they're asking RD and me to do. They don't give a rip either. (And by inference, they don't care about the other dogs whose people would be paying good money to have a black blur make hash of their class.)

    To transition to something new... we would need to, um... transition. We would need to begin with what she knew. For her, going without the e-collar without acclimatizing her to the new paradigm would be like trying to heel a naive puppy around a busy street off-lead.

    The other thing about RD's whole life is... the e-collar means HAPPY!!!! It means... we're going out!!! We're going to do stuff!!!

    Urgh. And I know we could do it. That's the frustrating part.

  8. #16
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,947
    Thanked: 2421
    Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
    I think I would probably do close in ring-type sports w/out the e-collar. ('Cause, hey! I'd be doing this to learn new things, right?) BUT... to get RD in the building, past (or among) a bunch of strange dogs and people, I couldn't do it with a shoe string around her neck. I mean, she doesn't know about the ring, the rubber mats, the reverberation of noise that happens in a big empty building, the smells of dogs present and past... dogs all around her getting cookies. Do you know what happens in our kitchen when LeeRoy or Bridget get a plate or a cookie????? It's a friggin' rugby scrum.

    Look, with a dog like RD, going in with her in a tether and me with cookies in my pocket would be complete pandemonium. The old gals at No-Name Dog Obedience and Lace Doilies Club have no idea what they're asking RD and me to do. They don't give a rip either. (And by inference, they don't care about the other dogs whose people would be paying good money to have a black blur make hash of their class.)

    To transition to something new... we would need to, um... transition. We would need to begin with what she knew. For her, going without the e-collar without acclimatizing her to the new paradigm would be like trying to heel a naive puppy around a busy street off-lead.

    The other thing about RD's whole life is... the e-collar means HAPPY!!!! It means... we're going out!!! We're going to do stuff!!!

    Urgh. And I know we could do it. That's the frustrating part.
    The rings aren't closed. They never close the opening. Also, the rings can be jumped over and run through. It's in strange buildings with lots of people and dogs. You have to go through lots of people, dogs, crates, etc. to the ring area as well. And, e-collars are not allowed on the grounds. Either way, this would be something you'd have to work on to get where you think you might like to go.

    Acclimation in a safe place will help, so I would recommend private lessons first. She would become acclimated to the facility without the dogs and people and by the third visit she'll probably not care and actually drag you into the building. They could add more people. Add dogs. And slowly acclimate you to a class situation. She might be fine, but if you need to build up slow for your confidence, then just be sure to express that with a trainer. They should work with you as an individual. I can't say for sure, but I have a feeling they would work with you on focus and engagement which you could do at home and work your way up to strange places and even around dogs. Without that, you're right, you cannot really train your dog. But at some point, your dog must be focused on you and engaged without any tools, including treats.

    While I don't know about the obedience club and I think the woman should have opened up a dialogue with you, I would not jump to conclusions about whether or not they care. As you pointed out, people can be quite defensive when it comes to their methods and people are not only offended by force methods, but because you don't use positive methods, they may think you're not a good fit. If they are in demand, they probably don't care about your money. Who knows, really?

    I wouldn't give up, though. If your goal is to teach the dog to do stuff without the e-collar, you've gotta start somewhere! Instead of putting an e-collar on your dog and putting her into a stressful situation, though, I'd nix the e-collar and slowly get her acclimated to a class situation.

  9. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Labradorks For This Useful Post:

    AlexS (07-10-2015), Annette47 (07-09-2015), Jeff (07-10-2015), Maxx&Emma (07-09-2015), Tanya (07-09-2015)

  10. #17
    Real Retriever fidgetyknees's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    349
    Thanked: 103
    None of the good obedience places that I know of in my city allows prong collars or shock collars.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to fidgetyknees For This Useful Post:

    Labradorks (07-09-2015)

  12. #18
    Senior Dog dxboon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    867
    Thanked: 824
    Every dog club is different, and every trainer has their specific methods. If you are really interested in expanding your training or competition portfolio, you might want to check out other trainers or clubs and have a conversation about your needs. I think it would be beneficial, regardless of competitive aspirations, for you to be able to walk your dog through a crowd of strange dogs/people who have food without your dog going berserk.

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dxboon For This Useful Post:

    Annette47 (07-09-2015), Maxx&Emma (07-09-2015), Tanya (07-09-2015)

  14. #19
    Senior Dog Tanya's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Eastern Ontario Canada
    Posts
    3,336
    Thanked: 2070
    like fidgetyknees - none of the "good" schools here allow prong, chokers or e-collars to be used in class either. But I will grant they cater to a different group of people - "regular" pet owners for the most part. I"d be curious what the obedience club catering to CKC sports (canadian kennel club) says. I haven't seen any in the agility schools but that could just be a fluke and not becuase of any rules per say.
    Last edited by Tanya; 07-09-2015 at 11:06 AM.

  15. #20
    House Broken
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Mn
    Posts
    201
    Thanked: 147
    Quote Originally Posted by fidgetyknees View Post
    None of the good obedience places that I know of in my city allows prong collars or shock collars.
    Actually, probably the BEST school on the cities (if you are looking at results...scores, not just ugly Qs) absolutely allows those tools if they are appropriate for that dog

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to indybindy For This Useful Post:

    Meeps83 (07-09-2015), windycanyon (07-09-2015)

 



Not a Member of the Labrador Retriever Chat Forums Yet?
Register for Free and Share Your Labrador Retriever Photos

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •