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    1. #1
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      TuMicks's Avatar
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      Well... that keeps us out of class!

      I have a gung-ho, gonzo, high-octane, big, fast, crazy-happy field retriever with whom I'd contemplate doing other indoor sports in the winter. Uh... not so much.

      Sent an inquiry to the Name-Withheld Obedience Club asking if I could bring her to class while she wore her e-collar.

      I received the following:

      [Blah-blah Dog Training Club] does not allow shock collars/prong collars/gentle leaders/halters in class. Gail

      I thanked "Gail" and told her I would be pleased to inform the retriever community at large about their policies. It's the least I could do after getting such an encouraging, chatty, informative, dog-lover-to-dog-lover type of response.

      On the other hand... Anyone using the term "shock collar" has just indicated they knew all they needed to know about training dogs... 50 years ago.

      And in case anyone wonders... you can bring your pup, clickers, and nubbins of goodies to our club events and we will let you play with us. We'll stand in the sun and throw ducks for your dog and pretty much let you do what you want. Just sayin'

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    3. #2
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      That is sad. At the very least they could have met with you and your dog and discussed the issue before saying absolutely not. I am sorry that happened, there are so many dog sports she would probably really enjoy.
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    4. #3
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      You clearly went to the wrong club. Our training facility would have questioned you to make sure you know how to use it, but there is a woman there who trains all her dogs on an e-collar and nobody minds. Well, at least she does with her Aussie and Tollers. She just started with some Papillons but I don’t know if they make e-collars that small, LOL.

      Where do you live? We are fortunate enough to have tons of good training facilities within our area.
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    5. #4
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      I wouldn't even have probably turned the SHOCK collar on or had the transmitter with me. BUT... "Gail" and the gals know best.

      I live in Reno, NV and we have just one Dog Obedience Club. Oooops. Guess that sort of lets the cat out of the bag.

      On another thread, someone asked me why force-fetch-e-collar-traditional-field-training people sometimes feel defensive. FWIW, I had gone to one of their classes with another dog back in 1989 and gave my dog (another big-old retriever) a pop with the link collar and said HEEL... when he went to sniff another dog. I was singled out and told they did not approve. So... nothing has changed in 26 years. Imagine. They haven't changed in 26 years. Is that something, or WHAT?

    6. #5
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      We don't allow them in our classes and no one needs them. Everyone does very well without them.

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    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Labradorks View Post
      We don't allow them in our classes and no one needs them. Everyone does very well without them.
      I am curious why they would not be allowed without even a conversation? Especially if the person didn't have the collar on or even the transmitter with them as Tumicks said.

    9. #7
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      Your classes might be selecting for a particular type of dog, not just a particular type of owner. In any event, hard and fast rules make cross-pollenization across disciplines less likely. I guess that is the disappointing part about it for me. I don't want to make the gals at No-Name-Obedience Club into Mike Lardy devotees. I honestly think RD could do Rally-novice right now. She's not far from Rally Beginner since she heels better off-lead than on. It would have been fun to try. But we won't get that chance.

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    11. #8
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      It is too bad that people don't understand the whole process of collar conditioning. They assume that because the dog is wearing one that the handler is mistreating the dog is some way. I have to sneak mine onto the charger because every time I pick it up M goes ballistic thinking she is going to go out and train. This is a dog that at first wasn't sure she liked the idea of an e-collar. Learning to use an e-collar properly gives the handler an invaluable tool. I will admit I was surprized the first time I saw a dog with an e-collar in an obedience class but then my dog was conditioned to the collar for the field and I didn't think I needed it when working up close and personal with her. As you say you don't even need to turn it on once the conditioning is done.
      Today we were doing a couple of parallel to shore blinds. She was wearing her collar but when she had trouble getting the entry on the left hand blind (it was only about a foot off the shore and a real temptation to cheat) I simply showed her the entry line with a bumper and the next time I sent her she took that initial line and stayed off shore right to the blind.
      This group has not the understanding that an e-collar is not a teaching tool. All the concepts and skills are taught before the e-collar comes into play. We don't correct (punish) our dogs for things that they don't know or understand. It is a shame that this club did not accept you into class as they might have learned something. Flat buckle collars can be just as harmful as any prong or e-collar.

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    13. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Maxx&Emma View Post
      I am curious why they would not be allowed without even a conversation? Especially if the person didn't have the collar on or even the transmitter with them as Tumicks said.
      Because... SHOCK collars. Don't you GET that???

      I'll make a bet. If I e-mail Gail back and ask if I could bring RD with the collar but no transmitter... I would wager you anything she would reply with an equally abrupt negative e-mail.

    14. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Maxx&Emma View Post
      I am curious why they would not be allowed without even a conversation? Especially if the person didn't have the collar on or even the transmitter with them as Tumicks said.
      The woman should have spoken to her and asked why she felt she needed the collar. Or what the collar was for. She should have opened up a dialogue and found out why she used the collar or felt she needed the collar. She then could have found out if there was an aggression issue or a control issue or whatever and the woman could have given her advice, offered an evaluation, or suggested a different trainer and/or private lessons to sort things out. IMHO, that would have been the best course of action. I don't agree that the woman should have shut her down like that. She could have missed an opportunity to help someone in a difficult situation (not necessarily TuMicks) or educated someone to the different methods.

      I can't speak for the woman, but perhaps she didn't want to get into it with someone who uses an e-collar? You saw that one thread go down; try disagreeing with a FF or e-collar user in person! And, there are two sides to the coin, too. On one side a person conditions their dog and uses the tool correctly. On the other side, the dog is abused with the e-collar, sometimes inadvertently. I know my trainer typically has about five dogs in his kennel that he is re-training due to incorrect e-collar use. For example, one dog didn't want to go into the water so the previous trainer held down the button until the dog stepped into the water and then let off on what they call, the "pressure". So now the dog is terrified of water. There are lots of stories of people using them incorrectly as well as inhumanely, so perhaps the woman generalized a bit? If someone does not realize there is a correct and incorrect way to use them, there is plenty of information out there from others and articles online from well-known publications that have determined that e-collars are a welfare risk to dogs. They have been trying to ban them in the UK for years. Top dog trainers don't deny that they can be useful, but will say that the vast majority of people use them incorrectly, which causes issues big and small.

      So, while I can understand why they just don't allow them, I think she did TuMicks and her dog a disservice by not talking to her first.

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