Finding holes everywhere

[barry581]

Any activity in which you expect the dog to comply with your instructions is obedience. Obedience is the result of teaching, training, and testing. Yes, in the field, you are teaching and training the dog to harness their innate desire to go get something (prey drive). In general a Lab with no training what-so-ever will chase something. It's teaching and training them to not only go get it, but to bring it back, and then only when you want them to do it. This is obedience in the most broad terms.

A dog is obedient when it calmly and quietly goes into the holding blind. It sits calmly and quietly on the line as gun fire and birds drop. It's obedient when it goes to the mark YOU want it to go to, and ignores the others that were downed. It's obedient when she comes straight back, hands you the bird, and sits quietly and calmly to be sent on the next retriever.

Teaching the dog to do what you want it to do, when you want it to do it, and how you want it to do it is asking for the dog to be obedient. It's the same whether you teaching the dog to sit, or teaching it to do a 400 yard blind retrieve. Having them be obedient doing the simple things leads to them being obedient with the hard things.

In essence, obedience is the dog doing what you want it to do.

[TuMicks]

Interesting discussion. I appreciate your thoughts and disagree with nothing you are saying.

If only we could all attend the same handlers seminar and watch us work our dogs! It's so difficult to draw a verbal picture of my/our successes and continuing struggles.

RD is 2 years and 3 weeks of age. She can't do anything calmly and quietly. Maybe that will change as she ages but judging by dogs like her, probably not. I have a good sense of progress or lack of same in field training. What is less clear is appreciating improvements in (what shall I call it?) street obedience. She vibrates at heel. She remains at heel, but sort of oscillates. And that's an improvement for her because she's dividing her attention between me and everything else in the universe, like at 60 cycles/sec. Tell her down... and her belly will touch the floor but her leg and chest muscles are coiled and ready to launch, her eyes moving to me and beyond me, back and forth, waiting for the next compelling thing at which to launch herself.

Here's the question (that can't be answered.) Is that nature or nurture? Would her working attitude be different, had I begun this and kept at it from the get-go. Her skill level would, for sure. But I think she would always be a dog on the edge.

There is a reason why insanely field bred labs get a bad rap. They're not simple to work with. Progress has to be appreciated using different metrics. She'll never be calm... only more and more self-contained.

[barry581]

Here's the question (that can't be answered.) Is that nature or nurture? Would her working attitude be different, had I begun this and kept at it from the get-go. Her skill level would, for sure. But I think she would always be a dog on the edge.

It's a matter of breeding for the specific traits needed competition field dogs. Field trials and Hunt Tests have evolved in a manner that tests a dog way beyond what would normally be expected of or required by the average hunting dog. This has led to a selective breeding process for dogs that are off the hook when it comes to prey drive, and they really have nothing (in my opinion) in common with their working ancestors. While the traits of these high drive field dog may be desirable to a select few people, they are way to much for the average pet owner, or even hunter to handle. Again it's my opinion that I have no desire for a dog like these, nor do I have the desire to have many of the show bred dogs I've seen in recent years.

I sincerely hope RD achieves all that she can and I wish you both the best in the journey.

[TuMicks]

It will be quite a ride, for sure. But, I think we're just getting to the fun part now!

[barry581]

And that's exactly what matters!!!