• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Drunk
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Tired
  • Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
    Results 1 to 10 of 25
    1. #1
      Senior Dog
      TuMicks's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      United States
      Posts
      2,036
      Thanked: 819

      Finding holes everywhere

      It's been amusing working Ram Jet Rocket Dog in this little basic, bread and butter obedience class. I know it's just a proprietary, pet-oriented, PetSmart class... but we're taking it seriously and doing our homework. She is doing pretty good, but in the social setting she is a very different dog than in the field. She's now calm in the holding blind and steady on the line... because, I think, she knows if she moves or steps wrong... it's back to the truck. She wants the retrieve so badly, that is her total focus.

      It's all good.

      But now we're doing something very different and expecting her to focus and listen and obey with a lot of distractions. And she's good at it. Except... when someone oogles her and sweet talks and does the "what-a-pretty-dog" and "can-I-pat-her?" routines around her. Then she's up off her mat in the blink of an eye.

      Now, when she resists the impulse to break, I reward her with a treat. But, when she gives in and creeps/wiggles/gets up/moves around... I'm sort of not sure if it's appropriate to use a correction (leash pop) and direct her back to her mat, or what. The rules in the field are very clear cut. I'm not sure how to work her through this in a social setting.

      Suggestions?

    2. #2
      Moderator
      barry581's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Dover
      Posts
      5,233
      Thanked: 4678
      I'd give her a leash pop to correct. It's like anything else, they will push their limits. Make the correction, and reward as appropriate.

    3. The Following User Says Thank You to barry581 For This Useful Post:

      Annette47 (11-01-2015)

    4. #3
      Senior Dog
      Labradorks's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2014
      Location
      USA
      Posts
      3,368
      Thanked: 1900
      I do believe that if the dog doesn't know the rule because he hasn't been taught, hasn't been trained correctly, hasn't been trained in a certain level of distraction (i.e., the recall in the backyard is not the same exercise as the recall in the park), you didn't train them correctly or with consistency, they just don't know the rule. Period. A dog, when they are sure of the rules, will perform the exercise unless under stress, afraid, etc. I do not think dogs have the mental capacity to push limits.

      If it were my dog I'd ask people not to disturb my dog as she is in training. I would also manage the situation by telling the dog to leave it and keeping her focus on me with treats or a toy while asking the people to stop disturbing the dog while she is in training. If this is a training exercise I'd forgo distractions until my dog is solid. Your dog has been in training class for about a month; I'd not introduce those types of distractions for several months to a year or more, depending on the dog.

    5. #4
      Senior Dog
      Snowshoe's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Canada
      Posts
      5,581
      Thanked: 3151
      Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
      It's been amusing working Ram Jet Rocket Dog in this little basic, bread and butter obedience class. I know it's just a proprietary, pet-oriented, PetSmart class... but we're taking it seriously and doing our homework. She is doing pretty good, but in the social setting she is a very different dog than in the field. She's now calm in the holding blind and steady on the line... because, I think, she knows if she moves or steps wrong... it's back to the truck. She wants the retrieve so badly, that is her total focus.

      It's all good.

      But now we're doing something very different and expecting her to focus and listen and obey with a lot of distractions. And she's good at it. Except... when someone oogles her and sweet talks and does the "what-a-pretty-dog" and "can-I-pat-her?" routines around her. Then she's up off her mat in the blink of an eye.

      Now, when she resists the impulse to break, I reward her with a treat. But, when she gives in and creeps/wiggles/gets up/moves around... I'm sort of not sure if it's appropriate to use a correction (leash pop) and direct her back to her mat, or what. The rules in the field are very clear cut. I'm not sure how to work her through this in a social setting.

      Suggestions?
      People are doing this to your dog IN Class? Your classmates? They shouldn't, unless it's part of your training, the part where you start introducing distractions. If it is part of your training then it sounds like it's too much, too soon for RD. Think you need to speak to the instructor and have the others back off for a while. Go at your own/RD's speed.

    6. #5
      Senior Dog
      Happy
       
      POPTOP's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Illinois
      Posts
      9,551
      Thanked: 5429
      In class, others should not be trying to socialize with your dog. I even take this to when Archie and I are out and about. Part of the trip is for socialization, part is for training and I will ask folks not to approach. Hate saying, No, please do not pet" but quickly followup with We are training right now; give us a few minutes and he will be allowed to greet. That's hard for Archie since he loves meeting people.
      Hidden Content
      Kissing Bandit

    7. #6
      Senior Dog
      Annette47's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Central NJ
      Posts
      2,033
      Thanked: 1810
      ,
      Quote Originally Posted by barry581 View Post
      I'd give her a leash pop to correct. It's like anything else, they will push their limits. Make the correction, and reward as appropriate.
      I agree ... the issue is that the behavior of being petted and meeting new people is a self-rewarding one, and if her perceived reward of attention from others is greater than any consequences (positive or negative) that she gets for complying with your commands then she will not comply (I consider this pushing limits if they know the command and have decided to ignore it because ignoring it has a bigger payout vs. not understanding the command which would be a different issue ). If you are sure she knows what is being asked of her (and since she does similar behaviors for field work she should understand), then I would give a collar pop correction followed by an immediate reward for compliance (I said SIT .. GOOD SIT). That’s if you have given her a command to stay and she isn’t. What I do is also teach a “go say hi” that gives permission for them to meet and greet. It is up to me though when they are allowed to get up and greet and when they must stay.

      As you are teaching this, it can be helpful to have an accomplice come over towards her and as soon as she breaks to go see them, they should immediately ignore her (turn their backs even), only greeting and petting if she is doing what you have asked. That helps teach which behaviors are being rewarded and which are not. Start with them just walking towards her, but as she gets better at this game, they can try harder and harder to get her to break, and if she resists then you jackpot her with praise and treats.
      Annette

      Cookie (Jamrah’s Legally Blonde, BN) 6/4/2015
      Sassy (Jamrah’s Blonde Ambition, BN) 6/4/2015

      Chloe (HIT HC Windsong’s Femme Fatale, UDX2, OM4) 6/7/2009


      Remembering:
      Scully (Coventry's Truth Is Out There, UD, RN) 4/4/1996 - 6/30/2011
      Our foster Jolie (UCh Windsong’s Genuine Risk, CDX, WC) 5/26/1999 - 3/2/2014
      and Mulder (Coventry’s I Want to Believe, UD, VER, WC, RN) 5/26/1999 - 4/20/2015

      Hidden Content

    8. #7
      Senior Dog
      TuMicks's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      United States
      Posts
      2,036
      Thanked: 819
      I'm sorry... I explained this badly.

      No one in the class is trying to make the dog break. I was referring to when RD and I are practicing in the PetSmart outside of class time. (I had a quiet Saturday so I decided to take her and her little pad, put her on a down inside the store, and give her treats when she ignored the distractions and focused on me.)

      When I said she was good at this, generally speaking, I referred to the distractions we'd been doing in class. These have consisted of tossing toys around. (Because she's a field dog, I've used the command "NO BIRD" rather than leave it.) We've also heeled dogs around her, and had dogs doing recalls past her. I can roll treats across the floor and tell her NO BIRD and she's intense... but doesn't go for them unless and until I release her. In terms of what we've done in class... she's been doing well.

      So, I think she knows she's supposed to stay where she's put, though (since I've tried to explain it better) if you think not, I'd like your opinions. Maybe she's under the impression that friendly strangers are giving her permission to get up and be chummy. But... I believe she knows she's supposed to listen to me... the person holding the other end of the leash. Sheesh.

      You may recall part of my reason for signing up for the class was my concern that Rocket Dog is dog-aggressive. THAT has gone well and seems better every week. And on Saturday, she was ignoring the dogs that were being heeled (or dragged) through the store. But, when people see her laying on her little mat, a certain percentage will do the "what-a-pretty-dog-may-I-pat-her" thing and THAT's when she breaks.

      I hope that describes it better. I was going to ask the instructor tomorrow night if we could use the oogling-stranger scenario, since she can resist the levels and types of distractions we've used to proof her in class so far.

      And, I try to tell people to pat her only if she's staying down. But training people is a lot harder than training a dog. They've already caused a break before I can get the words out. (Maybe I should make a little sign and tape it to the floor next to the dog.)

    9. #8
      Senior Dog
      Labradorks's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2014
      Location
      USA
      Posts
      3,368
      Thanked: 1900
      Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
      I'm sorry... I explained this badly.

      No one in the class is trying to make the dog break. I was referring to when RD and I are practicing in the PetSmart outside of class time. (I had a quiet Saturday so I decided to take her and her little pad, put her on a down inside the store, and give her treats when she ignored the distractions and focused on me.)

      When I said she was good at this, generally speaking, I referred to the distractions we'd been doing in class. These have consisted of tossing toys around. (Because she's a field dog, I've used the command "NO BIRD" rather than leave it.) We've also heeled dogs around her, and had dogs doing recalls past her. I can roll treats across the floor and tell her NO BIRD and she's intense... but doesn't go for them unless and until I release her. In terms of what we've done in class... she's been doing well.

      So, I think she knows she's supposed to stay where she's put, though (since I've tried to explain it better) if you think not, I'd like your opinions. Maybe she's under the impression that friendly strangers are giving her permission to get up and be chummy. But... I believe she knows she's supposed to listen to me... the person holding the other end of the leash. Sheesh.

      You may recall part of my reason for signing up for the class was my concern that Rocket Dog is dog-aggressive. THAT has gone well and seems better every week. And on Saturday, she was ignoring the dogs that were being heeled (or dragged) through the store. But, when people see her laying on her little mat, a certain percentage will do the "what-a-pretty-dog-may-I-pat-her" thing and THAT's when she breaks.

      I hope that describes it better. I was going to ask the instructor tomorrow night if we could use the oogling-stranger scenario, since she can resist the levels and types of distractions we've used to proof her in class so far.

      And, I try to tell people to pat her only if she's staying down. But training people is a lot harder than training a dog. They've already caused a break before I can get the words out. (Maybe I should make a little sign and tape it to the floor next to the dog.)
      I still think that these types of distractions based on the short time you've been training are too much too soon. There are several ways to train something like this. At the end of the day, it's up to you to know how you want to train it and what would work best for your and your dog. I personally find correcting in this situation isn't all that reliable or consistent.
      Last edited by Labradorks; 11-01-2015 at 07:44 PM.

    10. #9
      Senior Dog
      TuMicks's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      United States
      Posts
      2,036
      Thanked: 819
      OK. I'm willing to back up and try to make it more simple and re-do this in stages.

      I know she knows on some levels what a command to STAY is. We've proofed her hugely for all those distractions that occur in the field. But this is, admittedly new to her. That's why I described it as a hole... like a weak place in a seam. The seam is there, the garment is in one piece and put together... but one spot is badly done. (And I'll admit my culpability here.)

      Are you saying to let her get up after being told to down-stay (or sit, or whatever) and find out on her own that "strangers" are not going to satisfy her? THEN reward her for returning to her PLACE or mat? Maybe I don't understand. I would think that getting up is itself rewarding to her. Using the seam analogy, are you saying to let some of the seam unravel in order to go back to patch the hole? If Rocket Dog can even TOUCH a person, she is happy. If she can lick that person's empty, inert hand... she's delirious. I wonder if that approach is not giving her too much of (what would be to RD) a good thing.

    11. #10
      Senior Dog
      Annette47's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Central NJ
      Posts
      2,033
      Thanked: 1810
      Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
      OK. I'm willing to back up and try to make it more simple and re-do this in stages.

      I know she knows on some levels what a command to STAY is. We've proofed her hugely for all those distractions that occur in the field. But this is, admittedly new to her. That's why I described it as a hole... like a weak place in a seam. The seam is there, the garment is in one piece and put together... but one spot is badly done. (And I'll admit my culpability here.)

      Are you saying to let her get up after being told to down-stay (or sit, or whatever) and find out on her own that "strangers" are not going to satisfy her? THEN reward her for returning to her PLACE or mat? Maybe I don't understand. I would think that getting up is itself rewarding to her. Using the seam analogy, are you saying to let some of the seam unravel in order to go back to patch the hole? If Rocket Dog can even TOUCH a person, she is happy. If she can lick that person's empty, inert hand... she's delirious. I wonder if that approach is not giving her too much of (what would be to RD) a good thing.
      This (the fact that the behavior is in and of itself rewarding) is why I would use a correction in that case (to decrease the attractiveness of engaging in it), but each to their own.
      Last edited by Annette47; 11-01-2015 at 08:13 PM.

    Quick Reply Quick Reply

     



    Not a Member of the Labrador Retriever Chat Forums Yet?
    Register for Free and Share Your Labrador Retriever Photos

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •