The AKC Gazette for this month had a full page ad for a dog food company called Abady. I went to the web site link given in the ad and found some very interesting reading about dog foods and what we are feeding our dogs compared to what we should be feeding our dogs. I realize this is just another side of the feeding coin issue but it was still interesting: Abady Foods (http://www.abadyfeeds.com/)


On a different note. A breeder on a setters email list I am a member of wrote about how she has a friend who's dogs are always the perfect picture of health with bright, shiny coats, and tons of energy. Even the dogs and bitches that were spayed and neutered looked great. Spaying and neutering setters seems to completely change their coat texture and they no longer have silky, flowing coats.

She inquired what this person was feeding and was shocked to find out it was Bil Jac kibble. She started her spayed and neutered dogs on Bil Jac and almost immediately saw those dry spay/neuter coats turn into proper setter coats in no time. She also said her dogs energy levels had increased and they seem healthier over all.

I went to the Bil Jac website and found that their food is based on chicken by-products, chicken fat, and corn. Imagine that, all the things we try so hard to avoid might actually be good for a dog.....but....I'm still afraid to give it a try.

I was already aware of a large, professionally managed, highly successful program that fed a chow containing corn and byproducts before I ever read how terrible they are. The more I dug in to it, the less convinced I was about ''good'' and ''bad'' ingredients. Even the more reasoned arguments lacked references to controlled testing. Much of what I read fell into ranting and raving, all sorts of emotional button pushing, and deceptive statements just short of a lie. I also found instances of people selling what they recommended. Quite often when I challenge people and ask for proof, I only get personal anecdotes and often personal attacks. My research has included checking what other service dog schools are feeding. Most of the half dozen or more I checked are feeding mid grad chows, Iams being the most popular, but including Eukanuba, Science Diet, Pro Plan, and Purina 1. None of them are feeding the low end stuff such as Bil Jac, Old Roy, Shep, Alpo, etc. The only higher end one was Guide Dogs of the Desert. They were feeding Canidae, but seem to have switched to Nature's Balance.

I will say the worst of the faulty arguments were elsewhere. I also will concede that corn has its drawbacks. Dogs don't digest it completely, and still need other proteins. The more corn, the larger and softer stools. Yes, corn is the leading allergen. But perhaps not in proportion the number of dogs eating it. If venison or salmon was the leading ingredient in dog chows, I am sure it would be a big problem too.

I agree what is in the byproducts turns my stomach too. But then my stomach flip flops when i see videos of predators eating a kill. The first thing they do is rip open the abdomen and eat all that stuff. Yuck.

I don't know anything about either Abady Foods or Bil Jac. I do think you brought up an interesting point. Of course, as I often point out, one anecdote means nothing. It may not even be true. I like chows where I know of thousands of dogs doing well on it.

Abady foods = Got Cash ?

Very expensive... My Abady was very eccentric and now that he has passed on will the company survive?

I know from other forums it always was great debate when feeders of his food got going on it...

Like it is the food to prevent Hip Dysplasia..

I fed a small amount of his kibble... not long enough to see any difference.. But my last Lab took to the taste....

As far as feeding your dog Labman, it is your choice....but you mention people not having Fact when they talk about foods...

Let's see some fact on why you think the Dog does better on grains...Where is there any evidence in teeth, stomach, and digestive tract size that gives any evidence that the dog could survive on eating grass and grains...You do know that it is by cooking that the starch becomes bio-available ... And most wild dogs, wolves, etc.. don't know how to cook their food...

It is a fact that many dogs thrive on diets where corn is the main protein source. All your speculation will never change that.

It is a fact that many dogs thrive on diets where corn is the main protein source. All your speculation will never change that.

I've fed dogs both.... grain based foods where no protein is from meat vs ones that are... It is like day and night... I don't think the Natural feeders who see their dogs thrive on raw would ever go back to kibble...

Dogs need meat..... they are not cows...but it is true that costs of making feeds and the amount of people who can then own dogs goes up when the cost of keeping them goes down....

Here is an example of what meat can do....

DarwinsMom put me on to adding 20 % EVO RF into Satch's Cal Nat Lamb...

What a difference getting more meat protein has made to his body type in just over three weeks time..... And energy.... much more...

No one dog proves anything.

I've fed dogs both.... grain based foods where no protein is from meat vs ones that are... It is like day and night... I don't think the Natural feeders who see their dogs thrive on raw would ever go back to kibble...

...

What food did you try that contained no meat?

What food did you try that contained no meat?

Ya got me... It did have the illusion of meat....:rolleyes: Purina Hi-PRO, Purina Dog Chow, and you are dating my age.... Perhaps 30 yrs ago now... Days before I became a big fan of Paul Iams... He would be rolling over in his grave knowing what became of his meat based diets...

You would be very surprised how many foods that list Real Chicken as the # 1 ingredient actually have little meat in the kibble..

That is why I am so partial to Natura Products.. all their diets contain at least 80% of the protein from meat..

And I am sure the Abady diets are very heavily meat based because of their loyal following..

Ya got me... It did have the illusion of meat....:rolleyes: Purina Hi-PRO, Purina Dog Chow, and you are dating my age.... Perhaps 30 yrs ago now... ..

No worries, I feel your pain ;)

My research has included checking what other service dog schools are feeding..........
I like chows where I know of thousands of dogs doing well on it.

Labman,

How long do service dog schools keep the dogs before transferring them to the eventual owners?

Do these service dog schools (or you) check up on the dogs' well being once they have gone to the eventual owners? If they don't, your data is also not quite accurate since they are only for the period they stay with the service dog schools. Then your statement should say
I like chows where I know of thousands of dogs doing well on it while they were at the service schools.

I would love to see data/results beyond the dogs' years with the service schools. I have always wonder especially guide dogs for the blinds. How can their owners know something is wrong with them since they can't see. I am not trying to make fun of these folks but I am just very curious.

Usually the dogs go to their partner around 1 1/2 years. They then average working 10 years. Once the dogs go to their partner, the partner is free to ignore the school. However, most stay in close touch. The school is always available to consult on any problems, behavior or physical. They will transport the dog to the school at their expense and do any medical work the dog needs for free. The school once tracked down a 15 year old dog whose partner had died years before. They sent me to rescue it from the clueless family that was still keeping it. Just this week their newsletter had a report that one of my puppies died at the age of 13. Every newsletter has a list of dogs retiring or dying.

The partners are trained to feel the dogs over for problems. In addition, any changes in the dog's gait are sensed through the harness. They also get regular vet care wherever they live. Most of the people live with family that may also spot problems.

Anybody asking for a replacement dog is expected to report on their former dog. They keep tabs as best they can on both working dogs, and retired ones. Most of the dogs no longer able to work, live on with their former partners as beloved pets. If they can't keep the dog, usually it goes to close family or friends. If they can't find a home they are satisified with, the school will pick it up and find it a good home, first offering it to whoever raised it as a puppy. I know this is true because I have helped place some.

If I don't know it for a fact, I don't post it.

Once the dogs go to their partner, the partner is free to ignore the school.

Not to get too off topic here, but with my school the graduates are not free to ignore the school. If they do, we will send a rep out to check on them. I don't want people to get the impression that schools just give a dog to someone and don't follow up with it. There are safety nets in place to make sure these priceless dogs are well cared for and loved.

Having a dog with cancer we've been doing lots of research. I figure the recommendations for diet to starve cancer are probably good overall for even non-cancerous dogs. Higher protein, MUCH lower carbs then we usually feed. Just food for thought.

Not to get too off topic here, but with my school the graduates are not free to ignore the school. If they do, we will send a rep out to check on them. I don't want people to get the impression that schools just give a dog to someone and don't follow up with it. There are safety nets in place to make sure these priceless dogs are well cared for and loved.

I am glad you clarify it for me. I was getting that impression when I read the partners are free to ignore the school.

Not to get too off topic here, but with my school the graduates are not free to ignore the school. If they do, we will send a rep out to check on them. I don't want people to get the impression that schools just give a dog to someone and don't follow up with it. There are safety nets in place to make sure these priceless dogs are well cared for and loved.

Yes, that is true, but although most people take advantage of the continuing support, some manage to lose contact. I don't have any figures for that, but I do know it is an exception.

quick comment on the above..

Awhile ago I viewed a program on Animal Planet about Labadors. Half the program focused on service dogs. The show went to Guiding Eyes for the Blind in Yorktown Heights NY. One of the top execs interviewed explained it costs over $20,000 per dog to breed, raise and train these super dogs and that they are placed at no charge to their clients. . It was apparent to the viewer how valuable and priceless these dogs are to everyone involved.