First off all, if this is the wrong place to post this, please move to the right part of the board.


When I first got Huckleberry from the breeder, he was registered with the ACA but I sent his pedigree to the AKC and he is now registered with them. I just have a very stupid question: does that mean his ACA registration is not valid anymore? Not like I really need it, I am just curious. And does anyone know if I need to order a pedigree from the AKC right now or if I can hold on for the ACA one for now? I know the AKC sometimes offeres better prices at events, so I wanna wait till I get a chance to go to a dog event and then order it (just trying to save a $ or two)

Thanks,

Daniela

I don't believe any of the registrations ever get dropped if a dog gets registered with another registry. You can have a dog registered with 10 different registries if you'd want. :)

However, I'm not sure why you would ever want to keep the ACA registration.... If you are talking about the American Canine Association, it is considered a "puppy mill registry" and is not a respectible registry.

However, I'm not sure why you would ever want to keep the ACA registration.... If you are talking about the American Canine Association, it is considered a "puppy mill registry" and is not a respectible registry.


Well, then we have an answer already :D Now I need to find out HOW i can drop that registration. The ACA website is not very informative at all. I rather stick with AKC since that one is accepted in Austria.

I don't believe that the AKC accepts the ACA registration, did you apply for an ILP for your dog for AKC?

No, the first registry will not can your dog. I have triple registered dogs here, AKC, CKC and UKC.

I don't believe that the AKC accepts the ACA registration, did you apply for an ILP for your dog for AKC?

If I would have a scanner, i would show you the papers I got today. I could take a picture and send it to you. I swear, its an AKC registration.

I don't believe that the AKC accepts the ACA registration, did you apply for an ILP for your dog for AKC?

Check your Inbox - I sent you a picture of the papers I received.

WOW that is very interesting, it certainly is an AKC registration, full registration at that, with a sire who was ABA registered.

Interesting.

Was the sire also AKC registered? Very interesting indeed.

Was the sire also AKC registered? Very interesting indeed.

The Sire is from the Rainy Day Kennel (http://www.rainyday-labradors.net/), the one I asked about a week ago or so. I am very bad in reading pedigrees as you can tell but he has a IL-ABA number.

I can send you a picture of Finn's Pedigree, if you wanna look at it. If not, thats fine too.

Well upon reading:

For a dog with papers from a non-AKC accepted domestic registry
AKC has a new program where we are researching pedigrees of dogs that do not have AKC paperwork to determine if the dog comes from AKC registrable stock.

In order to determine AKC registration eligibility, you will need to send AKC a copy of your dog’s pedigree, registration application and/or registration certificate from another registry. You can also submit documentation provided by the breeder such as a contract or bill of sale. The dog may qualify for registration if the pedigree shows no break in AKC lineage and the dogs in the pedigree originate from AKC registrable stock.

Should the dog be deemed registrable, AKC staff will register the dog in question for $30. All late fees will be waived.

When you submit your paperwork, please include your name and phone number. You can submit the paperwork in one of three ways:

Fax the information to 919-816-3770. Mark it attn: Registry Research.
Email images to altreg@akc.org. Place Registry Research in the subject line
Mail to:
AKC Registry Research
Attn: Special Services
8051 Arco Corporate Drive Suite 100
Raleigh, NC 27617


Well, so much for maintaining a registry LOL and why on earth did it cost $45 to register my actual purebred from a reputable breeder, or heck the ones I bred scrupulously myself.

Egads, hel( in a handbasket for sure!

yep, i paid $30 for Finn. But then again, I also "wasted" $17 for the ACA, so we are almost even here ;)

The AKC is "hurting" for money and doing a lot of stupid things :(

The AKC is "hurting" for money and doing a lot of stupid things :(


So you consider accepting Huckleberry at the AKC as a stupid thing? :confused: Not like my $30 will help them a lot...

No offense, but yes its a stupid thing.

Registering dogs from Puppy Mills, why would that be a smart thing? These dogs were not bred to the standard, should NEVER be bred from. Now if they registered them as limited, that would make some sense and protect actual bloodlines.

There's no guidelines for a puppy mill registry to follow, heck they register doodles etc. too. So who says those dogs are even the parents of your dog?

Oh and for the record, it cost me $700 to register my litter CKC and the two I did AKC, so we're not close LOL

Oh and for the record, it cost me $700 to register my litter CKC and the two I did AKC, so we're not close LOL


Well, i dont have a litter... one is enough for right now ;) :D But he ate my Blackberry which was $300, so we are getting there ;)

So who says those dogs are even the parents of your dog?


Well Finn is not from a puppy mill, I know that for sure. He was born and grew up at the breeders home till he was 10 weeks old (he stayed 2 weeks longer with them because i wanted to make sure I am at home from work the first week he's with me) Then he moved in with me. I have met Mom & Dad but no clue abot Grandmom and Granddad. I may do stupid things in life (such a marry weird guys) but I would not go to a puppy mill or dog store and purchase a dog there. Sure, he does not come from a fancy Breeder like some other dogs. And you know how "moms" are - they always consider their "kids" best in class ;)

No offense, but yes its a stupid thing.

Registering dogs from Puppy Mills, why would that be a smart thing?


But there are many AKC puppy mills. I don't see how registering a single ACA registered dog is any different than registering litter after litter.

Because the AKC's main job is ensuring purebred dogs, maintaining the registry. You can't do that by putting in dogs who aren't AKC registered without proper channels being travelled. ie. ensuring pedigrees.

I'm sorry, but rainy day kennel is less than stellar. Should you love your dog, absolutely, should you be proud of him, absolutely. Its not his fault. And I have a puppy mill dog too. The only shame in it is my own ignorance. Rhys doesn't care who his parents were.

The only shame in it is my own ignorance. Rhys doesn't care who his parents were.

See, same here. If I would have done more research I do not know if I would have Finn now. Maybe I would have saved my money and got a puppy from a better breeder. But then again, I love Finn no matter what and I would also love him without AKC papers.

Well Finn is not from a puppy mill, I know that for sure. He was born and grew up at the breeders home till he was 10 weeks old (he stayed 2 weeks longer with them because i wanted to make sure I am at home from work the first week he's with me)


It might help you to understand how the ACA came about. Back in 2000, the AKC enacted their 'Frequently Used Sire' policy. http://www.akc.org/dna/frequently_used_sires.cfm This meant that sires who had 7 or more litters in their lifetime had to have their DNA on file with AKC. This presented a HUGE problem for the millers, the Amish, and breeders who sells to pet stores. Proving parentage was going to be thorn in their side because parentage was falsified on a regular basis. They often had no idea which dog sired any given litter. In reaction to this new policy, these 'breeders' formed the ACA to provide a registry to sell dogs 'with papers'.

Hopefully, you can now see how anyone who raises ACA registered dogs immediately raises a red flag for those of us who know the history behind this registry. Even with its faults, the AKC is the gold standard of registries in the USA. Some would argue that the UKC is up there on par with the AKC, but I'm not sold on that personally, but certainly, all the other registries, ACA included are inferior and suspect.

Okay... total hi-jack here... but OMG, I just love your signature R&R! Beautiful

Monte has a Limited AKC Registration, and I have absolutely no problem with it, since I understand the reasons behind it.

It might help you to understand how the ACA came about.

Thanks a lot for your explaination. I basically grew up with the Austrian Version of the American Kennel Club (my grandparents used to breed Swiss Mountain Dogs) and I can remember they only used the Sire a couple of time (maybe 3-4 times) and then got him neutered. So the American way of breeding (and I am talking crazy puppy mill breeding. not responsible breeding!) is just amazing. I have never even heard of a puppy mill till I moved here 4 years ago. Like I said, we had maybe one or two litters a year (depending on how many bitches grandmom considered worth breeding) and thats it. And even before the puppies were born, we had a home for all of them.


Well thanks everyone for his/her help :) I guess I learned now that the ACA registration will still be active and that I should probably not ask anymore questions regarding breeding or anything similar to it :( Its not like my whole life has always been around Labs...

Thanks a lot for your explaination. ..

You are welcome! One thing is certain, AKC or ACA, nothing diminishes the importance of Finn in your life. With AKC registration, you have opened more doors for competitive activities that you and Finn can enjoy together. Good luck!

I think this is the new program that alot of US breeders are fearing because they (the puppy buyers) can "lose" the Limited registration papers, and go back to the AKC and try to register them full anyway. Another reason for breeders to do all the registrations themselves before the pups leave the homes.

That's a shame that AKC is doing this.

I feel like I have to appologize for the AKC accepting Huckleberry. If he's not worth it, maybe I should send the papers back...

You are welcome! One thing is certain, AKC or ACA, nothing diminishes the importance of Huckleberry in your life. With AKC registration, you have opened more doors for competitive activities that you and Finn can enjoy together. Good luck!

Wrote Finn; meant Huckleberry.

I feel like I have to appologize for the AKC accepting Huckleberry. If he's not worth it, maybe I should send the papers back...

No reason to do that. He probably should not be bred, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy everything else AKC registration has to offer.

Wrote Finn; meant Huckleberry.

No worries, his full name is Huckleberry Finn and I call him Finn on some days, Huckleberry on others. Some people probably think my dog has a split personality ;)

No reason to do that. He probably should not be bred, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy everything else AKC registration has to offer.

Breeding does depend anyways on more than just AKC papers. And he's only 5month now, so the possibilty to breed him is about $2000 and 1.5 years away anyways.

Breeding does depend anyways on more than just AKC papers. And he's only 5month now, so the possibilty to breed him is about $2000 and 1.5 years away anyways.

Not only does breeding depend on more than AKC papers and the clearances, but is the dog WORTHY? Worthiness is dependant upon accomplishments ... ie TITLES. Based on his ACA background, I seriously doubt he is destined to become an AKC show CH. So the titles you need to go after would be advanced performance titles ... hunt tests, obedience, agility, etc. Not just a CD or a JH. Advanced titles that prove his working ability. Combine those titles with his clearances and you might find someone interested in using him.

No, this is nothing about you and your dog and getting those papers, but it does reinforce for us that breed in the USA that the AKC's new process will require us to do things a little differently. You see, I get many calls for people wanting to buy dogs on FULL registration meaning that they can breed their dog and register the off spring with AKC as well, and because I won't sell them that way, they get mad. Breeders who want to be deemed as "reputable" will only sell on Limited, meaning, the dog they buy will be AKC registered, but if it's bred, those pups cannot be AKC registered. This is a huge loop hole for the less scrupulous people to jump through.

No, this is nothing about you and your dog and getting those papers, but it does reinforce for us that breed in the USA that the AKC's new process will require us to do things a little differently. You see, I get many calls for people wanting to buy dogs on FULL registration meaning that they can breed their dog and register the off spring with AKC as well, and because I won't sell them that way, they get mad. Breeders who want to be deemed as "reputable" will only sell on Limited, meaning, the dog they buy will be AKC registered, but if it's bred, those pups cannot be AKC registered. This is a huge loop hole for the less scrupulous people to jump through.

Wholeheartedly agree. This has nothing to do with you or Huckleberry. Please don't take it personally.

Wholeheartedly agree. This has nothing to do with you or Huckleberry. Please don't take it personally.

Thanks for pointing this out because I sit here wondering why everyone is jumping at me and my pup now :(

Nope, this isn't about your dog, its just incredible that the AKC allows such a thing to me.

...And I think its because you made it known that your intentions were to possibly breed him.

No, this is nothing about you and your dog and getting those papers, but it does reinforce for us that breed in the USA that the AKC's new process will require us to do things a little differently. You see, I get many calls for people wanting to buy dogs on FULL registration meaning that they can breed their dog and register the off spring with AKC as well, and because I won't sell them that way, they get mad. Breeders who want to be deemed as "reputable" will only sell on Limited, meaning, the dog they buy will be AKC registered, but if it's bred, those pups cannot be AKC registered. This is a huge loop hole for the less scrupulous people to jump through.

You are absolutely right Jen. This just seems to be another loophole in what we're trying to NOT promote as breeders.

OP, have fun with your puppy and it most definitely is not directly personally towards you or Finn ;)

...And I think its because you made it known that your intentions were to possibly breed him.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, I said that but who knows what will happen in the next two years?

Yes, I said that but who knows what will happen in the next two years?

It's all up to you. Just because he passes his clearances does not mean he should be bred. It's in your hands to prove he is worthy of reproducing. I covered that in a previous post in this thread. If you want to be taken seriously and be respected by your peers, you have to look at your dog objectively.... not as the pet you love unconditionally.

kind of a hi-jack here too, but I have a question.

I never sent Baxter's papers into AKC to register him. I don't really plan to either. He is just a family pet, never plan on showing, etc. Is there a reason why I should. Since he is 3 now, if I sent them in, I would pay a late fee. What are the advantages of registering with AKC if you never plan on breeding, showing, etc? Just bragging rights? which I don't care about either.

kind of a hi-jack here too, but I have a question.

I never sent Baxter's papers into AKC to register him. I don't really plan to either. He is just a family pet, never plan on showing, etc. Is there a reason why I should. Since he is 3 now, if I sent them in, I would pay a late fee. What are the advantages of registering with AKC if you never plan on breeding, showing, etc? Just bragging rights? which I don't care about either.

You just never know if someone in your family will take an interest in doing something competitive with him. If he is already registered, then they can act on that interest.

Unless there is a barking competition or a counter surfing competition, he wouldn't qualify. LOL

Thanks for answering my question!!!

When we got Hudler, we had no idea about all the things you could do with a dog. But I sent the papers in because I wanted the pretty pedigree and PROOF that I owned him.

Most breeders also like to see that all their dogs from their litters get registered. I have 2 that didn't do it. I'm passed asking them for it. Next time, I do the paperwork, the amount I have to pay for filing all that will be added to the puppy price.

so I should register him? Isn't the papers I got from the breeder, the AKC application proof enough of ownership, Jen?

Yes, I said that but who knows what will happen in the next two years?
People around here take their dogs very seriously, you have to understand that. Alot of these people giving you advice have many years of blood and sweat and tears in their dogs. Their dogs are their passion! The only reason you should breed your dog is to better the breed, and not your pocket. Your dog coming from not so good of a backround probably should not be bred. No reputable breeder would allow their female to breed to your male, so honestly what would the point be to breed your dog? Wouldn't that put you on the same level as the kennel he came from? I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but it is really the truth. I have a dog from a well known breeder with champion bloodlines, whom I will be showing. Yet if he doesn't prove himself no one will want to use him as a stud, that is a simple fact. I'm fine with that too, trust me there are too many not well bred labs running around with numerous health issues. So I then paid $1500 for a well bred pet, and thats the simple truth.

I have a dog from a well known breeder with champion bloodlines, whom I will be showing. Yet if he doesn't prove himself no one will want to use him as a stud, that is a simple fact.

Exactly! I have a champion pointed boy here who has passed all of his final clearances. No one, and I mean no one, is beating down my door to breed to this lovely dog. His pedigee is fabulous. His temperament is wonderful. I believe he will finish his CH and I believe that if I am willing to put the time into training him, he would earn a performance title or two.

Now in Huckleberry's case, I believe there is a girl in Austria that is his intended. Is Huckleberry the right dog for this girl? Unlikely. But this is family and this consideration doesn't seem to be part of the breeding decision. This is how you lose support for breeding your dog.

Yes, I said that but who knows what will happen in the next two years?

Have you looked at your breeder? The fact that they registered the litter on ACA versus AKC means he shouldn't be bred. I'm not jumping on you but come on.

I am saddened by the AKC...hell, I could have registered Rider if I'd known that...he had ConKC papers and his mom was AKC..but I went the ILP route, neutered him and did the responsible thing. He should have never have been bred...period.

I have 2 Rainy Days dogs. Both were limited registration. Finn has FC's and AFC's on his side. Fischer has a few, not as many. We just wanted pets, companions that we could do obedience trials, Rally and Dockdiving with. So far, we have not been disappointed.:grin:

Just my :2cents:

I have 2 Rainy Days dogs. Both were limited registration. Finn has FC's and AFC's on his side. Fischer has a few, not as many. We just wanted pets, companions that we could do obedience trials, Rally and Dockdiving with. So far, we have not been disappointed.:grin:

Just my :2cents:
Glad to hear you have 2 nice dogs, but are they breeding quality? I mean if they weren't sold on limited registration do you think they are worthy stud dogs?

[quote=Dani;1964019083]Have you looked at your breeder?

I thought we were suppossed to keep Breeder comments to PMs?

This was all very interesting! I didn't know there was anything like this. Good to know!

Exactly! I have a champion pointed boy here who has passed all of his final clearances. No one, and I mean no one, is beating down my door to breed to this lovely dog. His pedigee is fabulous. His temperament is wonderful. I believe he will finish his CH and I believe that if I am willing to put the time into training him, he would earn a performance title or two.


I agree with this 100%.

I have the same situation here. Reuben has 4 points so far, made the cut in the last Dallas Specialty in his open black class, has 2 BISS winning grandparents, has passed his Hips/Elbows/Eyes annually, Heart echocardiogram, is being tested today for Optigen (but his dad was clear so the worst he could possibly be is a B). He is the sweetest dog I own and I hope to get him therapy tested very soon. He could easily get an RN today and his RA too, but I'm doing rally with the finished boys and holding off on him until he finishes (cross your fingers for me ;) ).


Now in Huckleberry's case, I believe there is a girl in Austria that is his intended. Is Huckleberry the right dog for this girl? Unlikely. But this is family and this consideration doesn't seem to be part of the breeding decision. This is how you lose support for breeding your dog

To the OP, I seriously hope you reconsider breeding him unless you "prove" him first. You can prove him by competing and earning titles, along with getting his clearances done.

Good luck, but don't expect anyone to roll a red carpet out to you, tossing rose petals on it while we applaud your decision to breed your dog. Nothing against your dog. It has to do with the fact that NONE of us breed without proving our dogs first. We don't believe it should be done....period.

I mean...stick around. Learn what you can, but you'll be hard pressed to find anyone on this board who will support your intent to breed.

No one's wanting to "pick" on you, but if you were thinking about purchasing this dog to possibly breed later, you should have started researching a long time ago. He could pass every health test known to man and have a ton of performance titles, but I'm assuming he comes from a pedigree that is lackluster and doesn't need to be continued... Any dog can be bred, doesn't mean they should be.

Now if I pegged you wrong and you simply wanted akc registration so you could do performance events with your pet, I apologize....but that's not the feeling I'm getting.

She wants it closed.