Alright! I am done. Blue Buffalo puppy food and diarrhea - Labrador Retriever Dogs Chat Forum Board - Dogs, Puppies, Photos, Training, Pictures, Rescue Forums

tobyboy09

09-16-2009, 09:42 PM

Yup

http://www.bluebuff.com/images/header-ingredients-puppies.gif Blue Buffalo Puppy, Orange bag

Deboned Chicken (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chicken), Chicken Meal (natural source of Glucosamine) (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chicken_meal), Whole Ground Brown Rice (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#brown_rice), Whole Ground Barley (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#barley), Whole Potatoes (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#potatoes), Tomato Pomace (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#tomato_pomace) (natural source of Lycopene), Oatmeal (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#oatmeal), Chicken Fat (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chicken_fat) (preserved with Mixed Natural Tocopherols (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#mixed_tocopherols)), Natural Chicken Flavor, Whole Carrots (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#carrots), Whole Sweet Potatoes (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#sweet_potatoes), Blueberries (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#blueberries), Cranberries (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#cranberry), Flaxseed (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#flax_seed), Barley Grass (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#barley_grass), Dried Parsley (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#parsley), Alfalfa Meal (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#alfalfa), Kelp Meal (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#kelp), Taurine (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#taurine), L-Carnitine (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#l-carnitine), L-Lysine (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#lysine), Yucca Schidigera Extract (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#yucca), Green Tea Extract, Turmeric (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#turmeric), Garlic (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#garlic_cloves), Sunflower Oil (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#sunflower_oil) (natural source of Omega 6 Fatty Acids), Herring Oil (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#herring_oil) (natural source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids), Dried Chicory Root (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chicory_root), Black Malted Barley (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#barley), Oil of Rosemary (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#rosemary_extract), Vitamin A Supplement (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_a), Vitamin C (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_c), Vitamin E Supplement (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_e), Vitamin D3 Supplement (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_d), Beta Carotene (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#beta_carotene), Calcium Ascorbate (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#calcium) (source of Vitamin C (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_c)), Vitamin B12 Supplement (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_b12), Niacin (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#niacin) (Vitamin B3), Calcium Pantothenate (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#calcium_pantothenate) (Vitamin B5), Riboflavin (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#riboflavin) (Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#pyridoxine) (Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#thiamine) (Vitamin B1), Folic Acid, Biotin (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#biotin), Choline Chloride (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#choline_chloride), Dicalcium Phosphate (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#calcium), Zinc Amino Acid Complex (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#zinc) (source of Chelated Zinc (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Iron Amino Acid Complex (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#iron) (source of Chelated Iron (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Copper Amino Acid Complex (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#copper) (source of Chelated Copper (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Manganese Amino Acid Complex (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#manganese) (source of Chelated Manganese (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Potassium Amino Acid Complex (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#potassium) (source of Chelated Potassium (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Cobalt Proteinate (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#cobalt) (source of Chelated Cobalt (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Potassium Chloride (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#potassium), Sodium Selenite (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#sodium_selenite), Salt (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#sea_salt), Lactobacillus acidophilus (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#bacteria_cultures), Bacillus subtilis (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#bacteria_cultures), Bifidobacterium thermophilum (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#bacteria_cultures), Bifidobacterium longum (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#bacteria_cultures), Enterococcus faecium (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#bacteria_cultures).

Woofie

09-16-2009, 09:46 PM

Knowing what I know now of my food sensitive guy; I would've just skipped everything I had tried when he was your pups age and went straight to California natural chicken/rice puppy.

Ever since I put him on the lamb/rice puppy version of the cal natural, it's been a night and day difference for him. He's been MUCH happier, healthier and a lot more energetic cause he's not arguing with his sensitive stomach.

Want to make it known, I'm not preaching Naturapet products, but I am preaching over the california natural cause in my life, it's made a HUGE difference.

I feed my guy the lamb/rice puppy cause he's over 2yrs of age; but for your little guy, I would try the chicken/rice puppy version cause it has the correct calcium percentage AND best of all, you can feed this food indefinitely...your dog does NOT have to be switched to an adult food period, this is an all life stages food.

Here's a link

http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/default.asp?id=1252

Random Gemini

09-16-2009, 10:05 PM

I've just started the switch to cali nat and I have to say... I love it already. I'm still transitioning him over, but already... his you know what looks way better than it did before.

NancyO

09-16-2009, 10:12 PM

I also feed CN lamb and rice. We had trouble with other foods as well, but Charlie does nicely on CN. Blue Buffalo is a good food, but has lots of ingredients that maybe your pup can't deal with yet. I'd stick to something with fewer ingredients for now.

Nancy

LadyBuckeye

09-17-2009, 08:34 AM

Over feeding as much as a 1/4 cup can also cause runny poo.

CanyonLabradors

09-17-2009, 08:39 AM

Over feeding as much as a 1/4 cup can also cause runny poo.AMEN! And also make sure that the fecal is specifically being run for coccidia and ghiardia, not just worms.

I hate to say it, but it's really funny how everyone gets caught up with the recommendations from the folks I'll call the "food police" and then guess what??? The pups start getting constant runs, which is not good for puppies as they can get dehydrated easily. How about sticking to what your breeder fed for 3-4 months and then consider switching. Or consider that many breeders feed foods with those big bad ingredients like corn, yet have champion, healthy dogs.

tobyboy09

09-17-2009, 08:47 AM

I don't think that the over feeding is a problem because we only feed him 1 Cup in the morning and 1 Cup in the evening and we've even cut that back this week to 3/4 Cup each time and he's still having it. He loves the food you can tell because he licks the bowl clean we just feel bad because we know that we're causing it by giving him the food. Any thoughts on the Natural brand of Science Diet? My cousin is a vet and that is all he reccomends.

JRs_Austin

09-17-2009, 08:50 AM

I hate to say it, but it's really funny how everyone gets caught up with the recommendations from the folks I'll call the "food police" and then guess what??? The pups start getting constant runs, which is not good for puppies as they can get dehydrated easily. How about sticking to what your breeder fed for 3-4 months and then consider switching. Or consider that many breeders feed foods with those big bad ingredients like corn, yet have champion, healthy dogs.

:D I have to agree with this, I know in trying to find the right food for Austin and Tex you ca get really caught up in this.
I fed my original Lab 29 years ago Dog Chow, 14 years later she finally crossed the bridge not having a sick day in her life.

Only day 3 but the Kirklands (Costco) has my vote right now, good ingredients and not going to break the bank.

Tobyboy09: I posted when you did on this, I fed Austin and Tex the SD Nature's Best for about 3 months, Thier coats are wonderful after being on ProPlan (The ProPlan had thier coats dry and thier skin Flakey) , but the only issue I had was I could not get thier stool's to firm up, not dierrea but soft where trying to clean up makes the situation worse if you know what I mean

tobyboy09

09-17-2009, 08:53 AM

AMEN! And also make sure that the fecal is specifically being run for coccidia and ghiardia, not just worms.

I hate to say it, but it's really funny how everyone gets caught up with the recommendations from the folks I'll call the "food police" and then guess what??? The pups start getting constant runs, which is not good for puppies as they can get dehydrated easily. How about sticking to what your breeder fed for 3-4 months and then consider switching. Or consider that many breeders feed foods with those big bad ingredients like corn, yet have champion, healthy dogs.

The reason that we had switched him was because he stopped eating the IAMS :( We wanted to leave him on that until he was out of the puppyhood but we couldn't find any other way to get him to eat it which prompted the change.

Woofie

09-17-2009, 09:23 AM

Or consider that many breeders feed foods with those big bad ingredients like corn, yet have champion, healthy dogs.

So you're saying I should've left Rivers eating Pedigree cause it had corn in it, which in your mind is a healthy ingredient.

Never mind he had horrible infected ears, skin, bloody diarreah and looked pitiful at 4mnths old, but I guess I should've left him alone and kept buying the Pedigree :rolleyes:

FWIW...not every dog can *handle* corn, yes, it's probably ok for most, I do agree...but not every puppy comes with an explanation as to what they can and can't tolerate.

Yes, I do agree one should get the stools analyzed first before jumping ship...I spent hundreds of dollars on Rivers's stools, ears, etc....but yet, I guess I should've left him be as there's no way, in your mind, that it could've been the food.

Never mind he's completely healthy now and hasn't had a single ear or skin issue since. I'm NOT the food police, people come to this board asking for opinions or suggestions, is everyone just not supposed to respond?? That's what this board is for....is it not.

I've mentioned a hundred times, that the ONLY reason I do recommend Cal natural is because it's worked for ME, if one doesn't want to try it, so be it, but I'm still entitled and allowed to explain my experience.

Woofie

09-17-2009, 09:34 AM

Any thoughts on the Natural brand of Science Diet? My cousin is a vet and that is all he reccomends.

There are some people here who've had excellent results with SD, I personally believe you can get a healthier food for the same cost, but the ultimate choice must come from you.

Vets in general only know of SD foods, they don't branch outside of that in all honesty.

However, as mentioned by Canyonlands, you could pick up just about any food from your local petsmart or grocery store, and most dogs would do just fine. It's all a matter of what you're comfortable with.

FWIW...my grandma's dog lived to be 16 eating kibblesnbitts, with homecooked meals on the side.

The pom I had years ago ate semi-moist food forever, cause that's all she would eat. I was not happy about that, but that was before I knew better too.

If what's said is true that 90% of dogs can thrive on any food, I'm honestly surprized why there are not more members here that feed Kibblesnbitts, Ole roy, etc. they are real affordable foods.

Doppler

09-17-2009, 09:35 AM

The reason that we had switched him was because he stopped eating the IAMS :( We wanted to leave him on that until he was out of the puppyhood but we couldn't find any other way to get him to eat it which prompted the change.

Sometimes puppies go off their food when their adult teeth are coming in. Did you try adding a little water first?

tobyboy09

09-17-2009, 09:48 AM

Yeah we tried the water and he did it for a few feedings but his appetite with it just wasn't getting any better.

Doppler

09-17-2009, 09:58 AM

A healthy dog won't starve himself.

CanyonLabradors

09-17-2009, 10:02 AM

So you're saying I should've left Rivers eating Pedigree cause it had corn in it, which in your mind is a healthy ingredient.Seriously, don't be ridiculous, OF COURSE if your dog doesn't do well on the food, by all means change it. But the point here is that many get on here and read all the hype and think that the first thing that they need to do is get their pup off Iams and on to some natural, expensive food because someone like you "said so" and then the pup has constant diarrhea and looses valuable nutrition during the time it's most critical.

Corn isn't as bad as everyone says. I think even research as shown that other grains are far more likely to produce an allergy than corn. Heck, nothing wrong with chicken, yet there are dogs that can't eat it.

We aren't talking about an older dog that has clear signs of food intolerances. This is a case of someone with a pup that decided he didn't like the food. Honestly, if that happens in our house, we let them go a little hungry or perhaps add some hot water to moisten the kibble, maybe a bit of cottage cheese or a spoon of canned tripe. My dogs don't have food issues. Grains are fine for them. I am not opposed to corn (not as the MAIN ingredient, but in it is OK for me) if the dogs eat, look great and poop fine.

This wasn't a case of a dog not doing well on a food, so they NEEDED to change. This was a case of the dog not eating as quickly as before. I actually think Doppler may be on to something, when pups teeth, they do sometimes go off their food.

It's not that I am opposed to changing foods when needed, even though I recommend that pup owners stay on the breeders food for several months before switching (especially if coat and poops are fine!). I change foods too. Maddy started having terrible gas on the Kirkland which we had fed for over a year. Jed stopped eating with gusto too and had the runs (partly due to ghiardia). We moved back to Pro Plan and the gas is gone and Jed is eating again, and the boys are maintaining the weight they need for the show ring.

I just think too many so called "experts" are quick to shame newer folks into thinking they are doing wrong by their dogs when they feed something other than Innova, Cal Natural, etc. I agree these foods are great, but not all dogs do well on them, not all people can afford them, not all people can actually find it sold in their area. And if there are people in the sport of dogs who I admire who have gone through the food rollercoaster themselves and settle on a commercial kibble such as Eukanuba or Pro Plan, honestly? I would rather believe them and the results they achieve than the self-professed food experts here on this board.

Woofie

09-17-2009, 10:09 AM

Canyonlands - Rivers was a tiny pup when I got him, that's my point. Young dogs CAN have issues too, it's not common, but I find with the retreiver breed it's very common.

The people in the sport of dogs are no more or no less informative on what works then we are just cause you say we're self-professed, so are they, realistically speaking. Do they have nutritional licenses? Or do they just have trial and error, which thousands of us do?

In terms of affordablity, this keeps getting thrown in; the food I feed is actually less expensive then those foods I found at Petsmart cause you feed a lot less, and the bag I buy is only $30

QueenMaxine

09-17-2009, 10:18 AM

Probably just too many ingredients and not similar in formulation to the iams. The natural science diet is better than the iams IMO, but you would probably want to stick with something more simple for now. I wish more brands than just the harder to find natura would make simple formulas so that more people could have easy access to it.

I agree I think doppler could have hit the nail on the head here though.

AMEN! And also make sure that the fecal is specifically being run for coccidia and ghiardia, not just worms.

I hate to say it, but it's really funny how everyone gets caught up with the recommendations from the folks I'll call the "food police" and then guess what??? The pups start getting constant runs, which is not good for puppies as they can get dehydrated easily. How about sticking to what your breeder fed for 3-4 months and then consider switching. Or consider that many breeders feed foods with those big bad ingredients like corn, yet have champion, healthy dogs.

Thats strictly case by case. I foster tons of puppies. I almost constantly have a foster- I never- ever- ever buy whatever they have been eating with the rescue, or at the shelter. I also think that its a personal choice, and just like people should not be guildted into buying better dog food, they should not be guilted into feeding what the breeder says feed either.

I'm not trying to be rude, but not every person who chooses to go a different route with their dogs food gets puppy diarrhea. I actually find it odd that it happens so much on this board. Out here in Texas, I change peoples dog food all the time- I do not see the volume of diarrhea and tummy upsets as I do when people are trying to make a point on here. Just a thought. :p:

Doppler

09-17-2009, 10:24 AM

The people in the sport of dogs are no more or no less informative on what works then we are...

Oh yes they are. They are seeing results from breeding their blood lines generation after generation, this is much different than a BYB that decides they want to breed a dog, doesn't keep a pup or continue to work improving the line.

JRs_Austin

09-17-2009, 10:45 AM

I just think too many so called "experts" are quick to shame newer folks into thinking they are doing wrong by their dogs when they feed something other than Innova, Cal Natural, etc. I agree these foods are great, but not all dogs do well on them, not all people can afford them, not all people can actually find it sold in their area. And if there are people in the sport of dogs who I admire who have gone through the food rollercoaster themselves and settle on a commercial kibble such as Eukanuba or Pro Plan, honestly? I would rather believe them and the results they achieve than the self-professed food experts here on this board.

You know After thinking about this and losing alot of sleep over the last 2 weeks I have come to the conclusion that I am going to feed my dog what I think they need and what I can afford, That being said I wonder how many of the Food Police actually eat as well as they feed thier dogs.

Fact is I usually eat a salad or chicken for lunch, maybe a burger once in a while, but I do not eat Filet Megeon (sp?) everyday. Fact of the matter is even though I have had a Dog live a wonderful long and healthy life on Dog Chow, I have also had a 6 year old dog almost die on SD, and not all dogs can eat the High dollar stuff, I know I for one cannot eat Lobster doesn't agree with me, but give me a fish stick and I will eat it all day long...
My point is people need to start feeding the best food that they can afford and what makes the dog healthy and happy. Stop worrying that you are not keeping up with the jones and feeding your dog Lobster while your eating McDonalds..

My Opinion and 2 Cents

Lovemylabby

09-17-2009, 10:55 AM

Your puppy is just a baby...and the first thing you need to do is to rule out any kind of bacterial infection going on or parasites.

If he were my pup, I would make an appt. with my Vet first. You don't want to take any chances with your puppy.

As far as food goes...you need to feed what works best for your dog.

Some premium brands are much "too rich' for a puppy's delicate digestive system...I also agree that over feeding can also cause problems.

I have found that my Toby does best on a "middle of the road" food...not the worst rated, but not he best rated either...some of the very premuim brands were much too rich for him as well.

I would also suggest to talk with your breeder and perhaps feed what he/she was feeding until you can get your puppy back on track.

Good luck to you!

tobyboy09

09-17-2009, 10:57 AM

A healthy dog won't starve himself.

Ok...so are you saying that he wasn't healthy?

He was losing weight when he was on the IAMS and we took him to the vet and his bill of health was fine. So, they suggested switching because maybe it was the food.

You know...I almost hated to open this up because I had seen from other posts that it just turned into a yelling match between other posters...but we are first time lab owners and I thought that we would check with other owners. I didn't mean to cause any harm or arguments between people question how much knowledge they have. I'm sorry to have done that and I do appreciate all the help that people have given us. We're just concerned about our dog having diarrhea and want what is best for him. He acts fine so I don't think that he is sick. I believe that the food is too rich for him. We didn't have anybody else who had used Blue Buffalo so you guys were our next option on whether or not this was a good food for him. But, I've just ended up making a mess.

QueenMaxine

09-17-2009, 11:14 AM

That being said I wonder how many of the Food Police actually eat as well as they feed thier dogs.

Thats a pretty offensive term.

Personally I eat like my dogs. We eat most things organic, and don't even have a microwave in the house. Were quacks like that.

Random Gemini

09-17-2009, 11:14 AM

Whatever you feed... I just think people should be aware of what they are putting into their dogs bodies... just as people should be more aware of what they are putting into their own. If you don't know what it is, it doesn't belong in your body. Why wouldn't that rule apply to your dog as well?

Just to satisfy JRs curiosity: Most of our weekly grocery shopping comes from the organic section. I don't eat red meat. I don't eat at fast food restaurants, unless Subway counts, and I read the ingredients list and check the nutrition charts on every item of food I purchase at the grocery store. You would be amazed what reading that list will do for you and how many of your favorite foods you will stuff back on the shelf after reading the box. Once you get into the habit of reading the box... you start eating healthier because once you know what's in there... you don't want to eat the bad stuff anymore.

The idea that I used to eat chef boyardee and top ramen... churns my stomach now.

QueenMaxine

09-17-2009, 11:27 AM

uplander

09-17-2009, 11:48 AM

Whatever you feed... I just think people should be aware of what they are putting into their dogs bodies... just as people should be more aware of what they are putting into their own. If you don't know what it is, it doesn't belong in your body. Why wouldn't that rule apply to your dog as well?

Great post...well said...

I get a kick out of the people who bash those for trying to educate others about pet food....

Beneful is America's top selling food...it is so because of marketing, not its quality..
and proves most dogs can survive on anything...

That being said...it does not make it right that American dog owners are so uneducated about good health...We have all these Government agencies that just collect paychecks and don't regulate food products....so a consumer has to learn..either by life experiences or seeking knowledge...that low end pet food is full of fillers and indigestible ingredients Giant corporations are getting you to purchase instead of them winding up in landfills....

ian408

09-17-2009, 11:52 AM

JRs_Austin

09-17-2009, 11:54 AM

You know...I almost hated to open this up because I had seen from other posts that it just turned into a yelling match between other posters...but we are first time lab owners and I thought that we would check with other owners. I didn't mean to cause any harm or arguments between people question how much knowledge they have. I'm sorry to have done that and I do appreciate all the help that people have given us. We're just concerned about our dog having diarrhea and want what is best for him. He acts fine so I don't think that he is sick. I believe that the food is too rich for him. We didn't have anybody else who had used Blue Buffalo so you guys were our next option on whether or not this was a good food for him. But, I've just ended up making a mess.

No you have not made a mess, Truth be told we all did by getting this off track, and for one I am sorry about that.

My trainer and a 4 mos old Golden who was in my class could not eat Blue Buffalo due to it being to rich for her, She went down to Nutro and the golden was fine,
My dogs did not do well on ProPlan, but others do great on it.

TobyBoy09 Please accept my apology for my part of the derail, hope my info helped.

Jim

omaha

09-17-2009, 12:24 PM

so i feed my pup purena one pro plan, am i doing the wrong thing? o and i eat out pretty much all they time and i vary from fast food to a rare tuna steak with steamed veggies.

dnk1999

09-17-2009, 12:38 PM

...I get a kick out of the people who bash those for trying to educate others about pet food........

Last I checked, I don't call spouting your opinion about foods educated... I call it cramming unsupported information down throats!!!!!

dnk1999

09-17-2009, 12:39 PM

so i feed my pup purena one pro plan, am i doing the wrong thing? .......

I feed Pro Plan and works well for my dog and her lines! She is thriving off of her food.....

Random Gemini

09-17-2009, 01:03 PM

IMO... there's nothing wrong with pro plan. I just dislike it because it's a purina product, that has nothing to do with the quality of the food.

QueenMaxine

09-17-2009, 01:13 PM

Last I checked, I don't call spouting your opinion about foods educated... I call it cramming unsupported information down throats!!!!!

WOW...

Woofie

09-17-2009, 01:35 PM

Oh yes they are. They are seeing results from breeding their blood lines generation after generation, this is much different than a BYB that decides they want to breed a dog, doesn't keep a pup or continue to work improving the line.

Where did the BYB info even come from on this thread. Rivers's was a rescue dog...period.

I don't buy a dog from ANY breeder; there are far more homeless/foster animals in need of homes; thus that's where I look for when looking for a new pet.

I'm not into buying a pup from any breeder directly, just believe there are far more homeless animals that need our attention too.

That said though, there are tons of breeders who have raised their lines on Canidae, Innova, and Eagle pack too; are you saying they don't have nutritional/experience knowledge and that only breeders of Purina/Eukanuba know what they're talking about??

Doppler

09-17-2009, 02:00 PM

Where did the BYB info even come from on this thread. Rivers's was a rescue dog...period.

I don't buy a dog from ANY breeder; there are far more homeless/foster animals in need of homes; thus that's where I look for when looking for a new pet.

I'm not into buying a pup from any breeder directly, just believe there are far more homeless animals that need our attention too.

That said though, there are tons of breeders who have raised their lines on Canidae, Innova, and Eagle pack too; are you saying they don't have nutritional/experience knowledge and that only breeders of Purina/Eukanuba know what they're talking about??

I wish you would read my posts. I never said River was from a BYB. There are people here with dogs from good breeders, BYB's and rescue's/shelters.

I am not saying breeders that use higher end dog foods "don't have nutritional/experience knowledge", I don't know how you came to that conclusion. :confused: Don't read into my posts, just read them. If someone has a pup that comes from a "good" breeder then they should stick with what that breeder recommends, doesn't matter if it's puppy chow or orijen, they know their lines and there's probably a reason they're feeding a particular food. If the recommended food doesn't work then the breeder should be contacted.

bearsowner

09-17-2009, 02:17 PM

The reason that we had switched him was because he stopped eating the IAMS :( We wanted to leave him on that until he was out of the puppyhood but we couldn't find any other way to get him to eat it which prompted the change.

Don't blame him for not wanting to eat the Iams anymore.

the ingredient list for Blue Large Breed Puppy:

http://www.bluebuff.com/images/header-ingredients-puppies.gif

Deboned Chicken (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chicken), Chicken Meal (natural source of Glucosamine) (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chicken_meal), Whole Ground Brown Rice (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#brown_rice), Whole Ground Barley (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#barley), Whole Potatoes (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#potatoes), Tomato Pomace (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#tomato_pomace) (natural source of Lycopene), Oatmeal (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#oatmeal), Chicken Fat (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chicken_fat) (preserved with Mixed Natural Tocopherols (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#mixed_tocopherols)), Natural Chicken Flavor, Whole Carrots (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#carrots), Whole Sweet Potatoes (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#sweet_potatoes), Blueberries (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#blueberries), Cranberries (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#cranberry), Flaxseed (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#flax_seed), Barley Grass (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#barley_grass), Dried Parsley (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#parsley), Alfalfa Meal (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#alfalfa), Kelp Meal (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#kelp), Taurine (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#taurine), L-Carnitine (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#l-carnitine), L-Lysine (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#lysine), Yucca Schidigera Extract (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#yucca), Green Tea Extract, Turmeric (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#turmeric), Garlic (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#garlic_cloves), Sunflower Oil (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#sunflower_oil) (natural source of Omega 6 Fatty Acids), Herring Oil (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#herring_oil) (natural source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids), Dried Chicory Root (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chicory_root), Black Malted Barley (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#barley), Oil of Rosemary (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#rosemary_extract), Vitamin A Supplement (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_a), Vitamin C (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_c), Vitamin E Supplement (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_e), Vitamin D3 Supplement (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_d), Beta Carotene (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#beta_carotene), Calcium Ascorbate (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#calcium) (source of Vitamin C (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_c)), Vitamin B12 Supplement (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#vitamin_b12), Niacin (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#niacin) (Vitamin B3), Calcium Pantothenate (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#calcium_pantothenate) (Vitamin B5), Riboflavin (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#riboflavin) (Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#pyridoxine) (Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#thiamine) (Vitamin B1), Folic Acid, Biotin (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#biotin), Choline Chloride (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#choline_chloride), Dicalcium Phosphate (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#calcium), Zinc Amino Acid Complex (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#zinc) (source of Chelated Zinc (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Iron Amino Acid Complex (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#iron) (source of Chelated Iron (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Copper Amino Acid Complex (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#copper) (source of Chelated Copper (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Manganese Amino Acid Complex (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#manganese) (source of Chelated Manganese (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Potassium Amino Acid Complex (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#potassium) (source of Chelated Potassium (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Cobalt Proteinate (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#cobalt) (source of Chelated Cobalt (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#chelated_minerals)), Potassium Chloride (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#potassium), Sodium Selenite (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#sodium_selenite), Salt (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#sea_salt), Lactobacillus acidophilus (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#bacteria_cultures), Bacillus subtilis (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#bacteria_cultures), Bifidobacterium thermophilum (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#bacteria_cultures), Bifidobacterium longum (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#bacteria_cultures), Enterococcus faecium (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#bacteria_cultures).

Your pup could be allergic, or should I say, not able to tolerate, to anyone of the ingredients in this food, but most suspected I would say is the Whole Ground Barley and the Barley Grass....also some dogs cannot tolerate Yucca Schidigera Extract (http://www.bluebuff.com/health/ingredients.shtml#yucca) which can have a laxative effect in some dogs. Actually it is put in the food to make their poop tolerable to smell??? Don't know about that though...It does have a lot of probiotics in it also which are suppose to be good for the dogs digestion, but again they could work opposite on some dogs and cause diarhhea..

You should find a single meat protein food with the least ingredients in it. California Natural makes this sort of food and so does Natural Balance.

Smackbelly&ThePone

09-17-2009, 02:27 PM

If food can make a human sick food can make a dog sick. My husband eats chicken or fish he dies. If Smack ate certain foods he got hives and staph infections. Each dog is different and tolerates different foods. If you have had a dog on Science Diet for 6 years and he looks great, is in great health and his poops look good why would you change it? There are a lot worse foods out there. Basically, unless someone's dog is having issues with the food they are on I don't get involved. If a dog is having issues the first thing I ask is "What food is he on?" The food debate has gotten so unbelievably out of hand on here. Maybe if a newbie comes on asking for food advice a PM would be the way to go. It's amazing how dog food can bring out the venom on here.

Doppler

09-17-2009, 02:42 PM

I get a kick out of the people who bash those for trying to educate others about pet food....

No one gets bashed for educating others. If people only presented the facts there wouldn't be a problem but opinion and belief is often presented as fact. In order for someone to make an informed decision they must know the facts. For example, I hear some people saying that corn isn't digested, that it's worthless, this is simply not true and a google search of will verify that. If someone believes that dogs shouldn't eat corn then that's their opinion and should be stated as such but let's not give miss-information. You would be surprised to hear my opinions on dog food ingredients but I choose to keep my beliefs out of my posts and stick to fact. Grain free foods have not been around long enough to say if there are any long term effects or benefits to feeding them, let people make their own decision and don't have a fit if it's not the same as yours.

bearsowner

09-17-2009, 02:53 PM

"Think about what happens when you eat corn. The outer sheath of the corn kernels remains in our waste (thus becoming the subject of many jokes and gross-out dinner conversations) because it is not digestible in the time that it spends in our digestive system. We process food every 6 to 12 hours - that's a long time, and the majority of it is due to the length of our intestinal tract.
With a much shorter and less capable intestinal tract, cats are at a disadvantage compared to us when it comes to digesting most carbohydrates. Corn meal, in particular, is more of a filler in cat food than it is a useful ingredient. While the corn present in cat food doesn't retain its comically fresh-off-the-husk shape after digestion, as it does for us, there may be even more of it expelled in waste because of the cat's inability to digest all but perhaps a very small portion of it."

"Dogs may not have the same limitations as a cat in terms of digestion, but they can't digest corn any more easily than cats. Thus, a dog food with corn as a primary ingredient is nearly worthless, nutritionally."

READ IT ALL HERE:

http://www.examiner.com/x-19313-Memphis-Pets-Examiner~y2009m8d19-Watch-what-you-feed-your-dog--corn-and-wheat-gluten-can-be-problematic and here:

http://www.examiner.com/x-19313-Memphis-Pets-Examiner~y2009m8d4-Cat-Carnivore-Corn--One-of-these-things-is-NOT-like-the-others

This is not opinion, it is fact. So many professional dog and cat people have always said the same thing about corn.

Can they all be wrong??

Smackbelly&ThePone

09-17-2009, 02:56 PM

let people make their own decision and don't have a fit if it's not the same as yours.

Amen.

bsdamron

09-17-2009, 03:03 PM

I wasn't going to add to this, but just wanted the OP to know that both of my boys had chronic poop problems with Blue Buffalo.

Doppler

09-17-2009, 03:56 PM

This is not opinion, it is fact. So many professional dog and cat people have always said the same thing about corn.

About the author of your quote:

Bonnie is a long-time resident of Memphis. While she is currently owns two cats, two parakeets, a cockatiel, a dog and four leopard geckos, it seems like they own her. She currently works at a veterinary office, and many of her insights come from observations while working.

Bonnie's insights are from her observations and while it may be worthwhile to you it proves nothing, it just reinforces your beliefs. Why not back your statement up with something scientific instead of opinion?

If you ate a banana including it's skin you will have a different outcome than if you peeled it first.

Woofie

09-17-2009, 03:57 PM

and don't have a fit if it's not the same as yours.

Ditto back...seriously, every time I mention Cal natural it starts all of this crap...everytime. I simply post my experience and all of a sudden I'm called a food police person.....this is why I get frustrated.

I'm not cramming anything down anyone's throat. I agree, perhaps if someone new comes on the board asking for advise, I feel one is better off just PM the person, and/or not adding anything ever to the advise.

Doppler....you're correct in the fact I didn't totally read into your posts; I work 60hrs a week and log on in between locates from time to time throughout the day, I don't have time to sit on this forum and keep up with every post as well as others do, for that I apologize. Sometimes I do weed through and get to the end, glancing at the posts but not thoroughly reading them.

For that reason, I apologize, I'm not apologizing for the fact that Cal natural is a good alternative if people want to go that route; however, I DO only recommend cal natural if the dog has allergies, otherwise I truly feel there are better/other alternatives for variety with another food.

I feel one should save cal natural formula's for when they're absolutely end of the road alternative to a hypo-allergenic diet.

I will promise to be quiet in the future....just so hard to keep my mouth shut :tapfoot: But I'll try as there are other people that are much more informed, more knowledged then I am.

Again I apologize to anyone I've offended, which is probably the entire board by now :eek: ;)

Doppler

09-17-2009, 04:08 PM

I wasn't going to add to this, but just wanted the OP to know that both of my boys had chronic poop problems with Blue Buffalo.

It's nice to read your personal experience (but not nice that they had problems). That's much better then knocking a food just based on ingredients. I think a lot of people haven't even tried the foods that they bash.

Woofie

09-17-2009, 04:10 PM

Fwiw...I'm not bashing Blue buffalo; if you read through other posts I've made, my sister once fed blue buffalo cause I recommended it to her. I believe BB to be a good food, specially the wilderness version.

tobyboy09

09-17-2009, 04:30 PM

mckjen

09-17-2009, 04:58 PM

To the OP

I have tried Blue Buffalo in one my many rounds w/my food sensitive dog. She continued to have very loose stools.

Since then I have narrowed down the problem to barley. I have since been feeding Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken and Rice -an all life stages food w/good luck.

I have never fed her food w/corn and have made every effort to avoid foods w/soy and wheat and these have been good choices for her.

At one point I thought maybe we should avoid dairy and eggs but I'm happy to say those don't seem to be problem.

bearsowner

09-17-2009, 05:25 PM

This like other forums, is filled with loads of USEFUL information and good advice. The hard part is simply sifting through it and all of the other people who just spout garbage just to hear themselves talk.

Thanks for the useful info.

Just be careful what you believe when reading forums such as this one. Take what you read with a grain of salt, because many untruths are spouted by those who think they know what they are talking about.

Information by those in the field of veterinary medicine I would believe rather than opinions by those less knowledgable.

"She currently works at a veterinary office, and many of her insights come from observations while working."

ranger3676

09-17-2009, 08:32 PM

Ok...so are you saying that he wasn't healthy?

He was losing weight when he was on the IAMS and we took him to the vet and his bill of health was fine. So, they suggested switching because maybe it was the food.

You know...I almost hated to open this up because I had seen from other posts that it just turned into a yelling match between other posters...but we are first time lab owners and I thought that we would check with other owners. I didn't mean to cause any harm or arguments between people question how much knowledge they have. I'm sorry to have done that and I do appreciate all the help that people have given us. We're just concerned about our dog having diarrhea and want what is best for him. He acts fine so I don't think that he is sick. I believe that the food is too rich for him. We didn't have anybody else who had used Blue Buffalo so you guys were our next option on whether or not this was a good food for him. But, I've just ended up making a mess.
My wife and I rescued a 7-8 wk old choc. lab we found starving to death outside of a Ruby Tuesdays... After clearing her of hookworms, a bacterial infection, and tape worms... I switched her food to Blue Buffalo puppy, large breed. It took about two weeks for her stools to harden up but they did and I noticed there was less altogether! However, from time to time she has mildly loose stool along with normal stool -- I think this is do to eating too much though (sometimes I feed her an extra half cup and most days she gets quite a few pieces of puperoni during her "training seesions" and god knows what else she eats while running around our backyard = she is like a hoover vacuum sucking things up as she runs along!). Anyway she is healthy, happy, and has TONS OF ENERGY! We plan to switch her to the Blue Buffalo Wilderness (think that is what it is called!) when she gets older. Hope that helps!

bearsowner

09-18-2009, 06:20 AM

My wife and I rescued a 7-8 wk old choc. lab we found starving to death outside of a Ruby Tuesdays... After clearing her of hookworms, a bacterial infection, and tape worms... I switched her food to Blue Buffalo puppy, large breed. It took about two weeks for her stools to harden up but they did and I noticed there was less altogether! However, from time to time she has mildly loose stool along with normal stool -- I think this is do to eating too much though (sometimes I feed her an extra half cup and most days she gets quite a few pieces of puperoni during her "training seesions" and god knows what else she eats while running around our backyard = she is like a hoover vacuum sucking things up as she runs along!). Anyway she is healthy, happy, and has TONS OF ENERGY! We plan to switch her to the Blue Buffalo Wilderness (think that is what it is called!) when she gets older. Hope that helps!

You deserve a pat on the back and a hand shake for rescuing this poor dog. If you hadn't come along, she probably would not of made it. KUDOs for people like YOU!!!:clap::clap::clap:

Zman1001

09-18-2009, 08:18 AM

This like other forums, is filled with loads of USEFUL information and good advice. The hard part is simply sifting through it and all of the other people who just spout garbage just to hear themselves talk.

Thanks for the useful info.

You are correct about this one. My advice is to take what your belief system is and apply the food game to that. For example. If you believe that a simple food is best, go wiith something that fits it. If you believe that a quality multi meat source food is it, go with something that fits it.

If you believe that corn is not all that bad, but not one of the first few ingredients, choose one for it. and etc. and etc. and etc.

I did that and I ended up on Pro Plan Large Breed. The reason I did this is because my pup was on puppy chow when I got him. I came on this site and read through lots of posts and decided to upgrade, but my choice was to stay within the Purina family because I did not personally have any mistrust of them, like quite a few people have on this site. I have noticed a big improvement in my pup. HIs coat is much better and shiny and soft. HIs waste is smaller than before. He still have energy and is growing like I want him to.

I have said in other posts that when I make the switch to adult food, I will most likely also make the switch from Pro Plan to Kirklands food from Costco. The reason. The ingredients are better than Pro Plan and the cost is amazing. I just hope that he continues to do as well when I make the switch, but if not, I know there is a food I can fall back on that I am happy with too.

Random Gemini

09-18-2009, 08:37 AM

Zman1001

09-18-2009, 08:51 AM

I've seen that commentary about Kirkland food being wonderful... I have not had this experience with kirkland products in general (their bottled water grows alien life if you leave it sitting for a month)... why is everyone so hot on this food?

As I said, I have not had personal experience with it yet, but when I look at the ingredients and price, to me, it is a no brainer (as long as it works with my pup).

$25 for 40 lbs.

Kirkland Signature Range Chicken, Rice & Vegetable Adult Dog Food Review
For the price it will be hard to find a brand of this quality. Usually dog food brands in the price range of Kirkland are overloaded with grains and fillers. The first thing we are going to do is take a look at the first five ingredients.
KIRKLAND SIGNATURE RANGE CHICKEN FIRST FIVE INGREDIENT:

Chicken – Chicken is the first ingredient. Since this ingredient is not in the form of a meal it still has its water weight before hand, which if removed it would more than likely fall further down in the ingredients list. Water makes up approximately 80% of this ingredient.
Chicken meal – Chicken meal is probably this formulas first ingredient. Since meat is a natural part of a dogs diet we are pleased to see this as the first ingredient.
Whole grain brown rice – The premium dog food brands will exclude all grains from their ingredients. Does having grains make this food horrible? Not necessarily. Whole grain brown rice is a decent quality of grain so it doesn’t lower the quality of the food that much.
Cracked pearl barley -Also a decent quality grain.
Chicken fat – This is the first fat source meaning for the most part all ingredients before this are going to make up the majority of this food.
Other notable ingredients would include fish meal at the 9th ingredient. We couldn’t find any where on the manufactures website a statement saying they use Ethoxyquin free fish. Ethoxyquin has been linked to cancer in rats and is commonly found in fish aught by commercial boats that cannot be used for human consumption.
Beet pulp is also found as an ingredient and has been linked to allergies in dogs. It comes in the form of a by product.
KIRKLAND SIGNATURE RANGE CHICKEN FULL INGREDIENTS LIST:

Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, cracked pearl barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and vitamin E), egg product, beet pulp, potatoes, fish meal, flaxseed, natural flavor, brewers dried yeast, millet, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, chondroitin sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Random Gemini

09-18-2009, 09:20 AM

Wow... that looks like a decent food actually... I think I will stick with Cali Nat tho. Just.. on principle.

uplander

09-18-2009, 09:50 AM

As I said, I have not had personal experience with it yet, but when I look at the ingredients and price, to me, it is a no brainer (as long as it works with my pup).

$25 for 40 lbs.

Kirkland Signature Range Chicken, Rice & Vegetable Adult Dog Food Review
For the price it will be hard to find a brand of this quality. Usually dog food brands in the price range of Kirkland are overloaded with grains and fillers. The first thing we are going to do is take a look at the first five ingredients.
KIRKLAND SIGNATURE RANGE CHICKEN FIRST FIVE INGREDIENT:

Chicken – Chicken is the first ingredient. Since this ingredient is not in the form of a meal it still has its water weight before hand, which if removed it would more than likely fall further down in the ingredients list. Water makes up approximately 80% of this ingredient.
Chicken meal – Chicken meal is probably this formulas first ingredient. Since meat is a natural part of a dogs diet we are pleased to see this as the first ingredient.
Whole grain brown rice – The premium dog food brands will exclude all grains from their ingredients. Does having grains make this food horrible? Not necessarily. Whole grain brown rice is a decent quality of grain so it doesn’t lower the quality of the food that much.
Cracked pearl barley -Also a decent quality grain.
Chicken fat – This is the first fat source meaning for the most part all ingredients before this are going to make up the majority of this food.
Other notable ingredients would include fish meal at the 9th ingredient. We couldn’t find any where on the manufactures website a statement saying they use Ethoxyquin free fish. Ethoxyquin has been linked to cancer in rats and is commonly found in fish aught by commercial boats that cannot be used for human consumption.
Beet pulp is also found as an ingredient and has been linked to allergies in dogs. It comes in the form of a by product.
KIRKLAND SIGNATURE RANGE CHICKEN FULL INGREDIENTS LIST:

Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, cracked pearl barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and vitamin E), egg product, beet pulp, potatoes, fish meal, flaxseed, natural flavor, brewers dried yeast, millet, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, chondroitin sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

There has never been an issue with the way Diamond products are formulated... It has been their ability to keep it free of contaminants...they say they now have more checks in place...yet only recently re-called a Taste of the Wild formula because dogs were getting sick...I believe it has to do with the age of their plants....They really should tear down those old out of date facilities and invest in new state of the art food processing facilities.

bearsowner

09-18-2009, 12:31 PM

Just think a minute, this Kirkland food sells for $25 for 40 lbs. I don't care if it's chicken or chicken meal or whatever kind of meat, grain or whatever is in this food.

Now you have a bag of Orejan which is a top of the line dog food that sells for much more than the Kirkland.

Is all chicken the same? Are all grains the same? Does quality of the product come into play here or not?

There has to be a reason why Kirkland call sell that food at that price. My guess is inferior ingredients compared to super premium dog foods.

Smackbelly&ThePone

09-18-2009, 12:47 PM

There has to be a reason why Kirkland call sell that food at that price. My guess is inferior ingredients compared to super premium dog foods.

Not necessarily. Maybe Orijen is marking up their product, say, 600% and Kirkland only marks theirs up 300%. Orijen may just have a higher profit margin and be charging way more then they need to. Who knows.

JRs_Austin

09-18-2009, 01:02 PM

Not necessarily. Maybe Orijen is marking up their product, say, 600% and Kirkland only marks theirs up 300%. Orijen may just have a higher profit margin and be charging way more then they need to. Who knows.

Actually your probibly not far off, it's simply their business model,

If I was a dairy and I was trying to sell milk to my town at 2.99 to cover my cost, and provide a little profit, and Borden's comes in and because they have a major distribution channel and sell 200 times the milk I do, they can come in and sell it for 1.50 and still make money why cause they are selling more of it.

Kirklands is having it manufatured in mass that Orijen cannot compete on Price because they are only sold in smaller shops

Smackbelly&ThePone

09-18-2009, 01:21 PM

Just because it costs more doesn't mean it's better. For example...are Hollister jeans any better than Levi's? Nope.

uplander

09-18-2009, 01:37 PM

Just think a minute, this Kirland food sells for $25 for 40 lbs. I don't care if ii's chicken or chicken meal or whatever kind of meat, grain or whatever is in this food.

Now you have a bag of Orejan which is a top of the line dog food that sells for much more than the Kirkland.

Is all chicken the same? Are all grains the same? Does quality of the product come into play here or not?

There has to be a reason why Kirkland call sell that food at that price. My guess is inferior ingredients compared to super premium dog foods.

Not a guess..it is all about sourcing....Diamond got in real trouble in the 2005 with re-calls and hundreds of dead dogs in the North East by using Corn that had developed Aflatoxin mold...Cost them millions....
The FDA's Report on the Diamond Pet Foods Recall
An investigation by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration was launched after Dec. 20, 2005, when Diamond Pet Foods recalled about 1 million pounds of dried pet food made Sept. 1 through Dec. 7 (bearing use-by dates of March 1, 2007, through June 7, 2007).
The FDA recently released a report of its findings on the Diamond Pet Food case, wherein Federal regulators found widespread failure to test corn and other ingredients that went into the dog food made in the fall of 2005 at Diamond Pet Foods' plant in Gaston, South Carolina. Following the report's release, Diamond Pet Foods admitted that it failed to follow its own testing guidelines.

In the report, U.S. FDA investigators determined:

Tests could not be verified for more than half the corn samples arriving at the plant during the critical periods of September and October because the samples were missing. The samples were either lost or never taken, according to the FDA. Without them, the FDA was unable to determine exactly how much aflatoxin (if any) wound up in the dog food that used these batches of corn
Among the samples that were kept, FDA tests found aflatoxin ranging from 90 parts per billion to 1,851 ppb ? four to 90 times the FDA's limit of 20 parts per billion for human and pet foods. Those samples represented four truckloads of corn the company tested and cleared and used to make dog food
In 16 samples of batches of dried dog food, aflatoxin was found at levels beyond the government's limit

The S.C. Department of Agriculture has provided aflatoxin testing to farmers, food manufacturers, and others free of charge as a public service; however, the test is not required by state or federal law. Diamond Pet Foods did not take advantage of the department's free aflatoxin testing service
The inspection also found that Diamond accepted shipments of wheat flour, rice bran, and chicken byproduct meal between Jan. 3 and 17, despite testing that found most of the ingredients did not meet the company's own content specifications for protein, moisture, fat, ash, and fiber.

Of 21 shipments of wheat flour accepted during the two-week period, 17 failed testing of three or more of the five specifications. All five accepted shipments of rice bran failed on four of five specifications, and six of seven accepted shipments of chicken byproduct meal failed four specifications tested.

The FDA's findings did not carry any penalties. Diamond Pet Foods reports it has taken the necessary actions to prevent these oversights from happening in the future.

bearsowner

09-18-2009, 03:09 PM

Not necessarily. Maybe Orijen is marking up their product, say, 600% and Kirkland only marks theirs up 300%. Orijen may just have a higher profit margin and be charging way more then they need to. Who knows.

That would be great if it was true, unfortunately it more than likely is not. You will find that larger companies need more revenue coming to pay the higher expenses they have running such a large company. Smaller companies normally do not have these greater expenses.

All chickens are not the same, all chicken parts are not the same. All rice is not the same.

The price of the food normally will depend on the price of the raw product that is used to make the food. The add ons are the price of advertising and distributing and mostly production costs. Smaller companies don't have all these high cost add ons, but keep their advertising simple and only to a select group of customers, their distribution costs are minimal because they only sell their food in certain markets. Production costs are less because they only make a few varieties of the food.

Smackbelly&ThePone

09-18-2009, 03:13 PM

That would be great if it was true, unfortunately it more than likely is not. You will find that larger companies need more revenue coming to pay the higher expenses they have running such a large company. Smaller companies normally do not have these greater expenses.

All chickens are not the same, all chicken parts are not the same. All rice is not the same.

The price of the food normally will depend on the price of the raw product that is used to make the food. The add ons are the price of advertising and distributing and mostly production costs. Smaller companies don't have all these high cost add ons, but keep their advertising simple and only to a select group of customers, their distribution costs are minimal because they only sell their food in certain markets. Production costs are less because they only make a few varieties of the food.

So, basically, the more it costs the better it is? Sorry, I just don't buy that. That's exactly what the marketing people want you to think. Cheaper food doesn't mean it's crap, either. There are a lot of factors.

JRs_Austin

09-18-2009, 03:16 PM

So, basically, the more it costs the better it is? Sorry, I just don't buy that. That's exactly what the marketing people want you to think. Cheaper food doesn't mean it's crap, either. There are a lot of factors.

I grow my own tomato's so I guess since the plants cost me .99 cents the tomato's are of poorer quality that I get at the whole foods market?

I am with Smack on this one.

tobyboy09

09-18-2009, 03:16 PM

Again, thank you all for the advice and the personal experiences with the blue buffalo! We have decided to switch him to INNOVA. We gave him a cup of INNOVA last night and then gave him another cup this morning and when he went to the bathroom this morning it was completely solid. He hasn't gone again so we haven't been able to tell if it's still solid or not. But, I know that when he was having the diarrhea he was going to the bathroom each time we went out so hopefully it's a good sign that he's not having any more diarrhea. The food place also gave us a bottle of the Eagle Pack Holistic Transition powder to also sprinkle on his food because she said that it would help to transition him to this new food as well. I know that you aren't supposed to stop them "cold turkey" from the other food but we figured it couldn't hurt anything because he was already having bad diarrhea. Hopefully this is it!

Smackbelly&ThePone

09-18-2009, 03:18 PM

JRs_Austin

09-18-2009, 03:18 PM

bearsowner

09-18-2009, 03:49 PM

So, basically, the more it costs the better it is? Sorry, I just don't buy that. That's exactly what the marketing people want you to think. Cheaper food doesn't mean it's crap, either. There are a lot of factors.

There is an old adage that has been around since the creation of money:

You get what you pay for

And it will be like that until the end of time...just the way it is...

Zman1001

09-18-2009, 08:56 PM

Not a guess..it is all about sourcing....Diamond got in real trouble in the 2005 with re-calls and hundreds of dead dogs in the North East by using Corn that had developed Aflatoxin mold...Cost them millions....

Uplander, All of that would be great if any of Kirklands dog or puppy food had corn in it. Since we are talking specifically about Kirklands, why do you have to try and scare people away from it by bringing up the problems that Diamond had with corn, when there is NO CORN in any Kirkland ingredient list?

So I guess now I should bring up that whenever anyone mentions your favorite that they were in 2007 and still are associated with Menu Foods and Menu Foods is the one of major factors to the recalls in 2007 as well.

I would think that it should matter that neither Kirklands kibble nor Cal Nat kibble had any actual recalls, but using your basis, it really does not matter. scare, scare, scare, no matter whether the facts are true or not.

Did Diamond have problems. yes. did Kirklands use any of the ingredients that were the cause of the problem, NO. So why do you feel the need to bring up Diamond problems when they are not associated with Kirklands, other than that they manufacture.

With regard to Bears post. Kirklands has no advertising. So you save a ton of money right there. It is mass produced. You save money there. Are the ingredients inferior to Orijen or Cal Nat or Innova. Maybe, but not necessarily. You do not know that, just like I do not know that. But however, as we have stated in many many posts, we are all allowed to our opinion. I am just confused as to why you feel the need to attack a product just because it costs less that what you are feeding. if it is not attacking that corn is in there, or it is made by Purina or some other supposed low company, now we have to go down the list of ways to put a food down and say they use inferior ingredients. who knows. but I know, it is your opinion that ingredients quality is inferior.

Woofie

09-18-2009, 09:08 PM

I know that you aren't supposed to stop them "cold turkey" from the other food but we figured it couldn't hurt anything because he was already having bad diarrhea. Hopefully this is it!

Glad he's doing a lot better.....real good news. Keep us posted!

Woofie

09-18-2009, 09:11 PM

Uplander, All of that would be great if any of Kirklands dog or puppy food had corn in it. Since we are talking specifically about Kirklands, why do you have to try and scare people away from it by bringing up the problems that Diamond had with corn, when there is NO CORN in any Kirkland ingredient list?

So I guess now I should bring up that whenever anyone mentions your favorite that they were in 2007 and still are associated with Menu Foods and Menu Foods is the one of major factors to the recalls in 2007 as well.

I would think that it should matter that neither Kirklands kibble nor Cal Nat kibble had any actual recalls, but using your basis, it really does not matter. scare, scare, scare, no matter whether the facts are true or not.

Did Diamond have problems. yes. did Kirklands use any of the ingredients that were the cause of the problem, NO. So why do you feel the need to bring up Diamond problems when they are not associated with Kirklands, other than that they manufacture.

Heck....make it simple/easy on yourselves don't feed anything store bought and pre-packaged then you won't have to worry about any of it :brow:

Seriously....to the Natura being associated with Menu foods; I had no clue. Although it doesn't effect my gang and what I feed them, have fed them, I still don't like they have ties with Menu foods even though it's only their canned foods.

Every company has secrets in their closet....I won't be dealing with it any more though...thank goodness :clap:

Doppler

09-18-2009, 09:22 PM

Quoting Uplander:

.....Me scare people...I don't think so (http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/no-dogs-cats-t7337471.html)...

:tapfoot:

uplander

09-18-2009, 10:09 PM

As a 3 time Super Bowl coach always says. "It is what it is"......:D
I don't think grain free TOTW has corn...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22505068/ns/health-pet_health/

Of 21 shipments of wheat flour accepted during the two-week period, 17 failed testing of three or more of the five specifications. All five accepted shipments of rice bran failed on four of five specifications, and six of seven accepted shipments of chicken byproduct meal failed four specifications tested.

This is not just about corn.....or was....Yes I lack confidence in some companies to consistently produce quality products...Only recently their top of the line Taste of the Wild was recalled...I thought they had turned a corner..obviously not...

Saturday, October 11, 2008 at 6:51 p.m.
META -- A late night fire Friday night at a pet food factory in Osage County was quickly quelled by firefighters after workers noticed smoke coming from a grain processing room.

Meta firefighters got the call around nine p.m. Friday night that a fire had started at the Diamond Pet Food plant.

The fire, which started toward the rear of the building, was contained to the grain processing room.

"It got clogged up and basically with the heat and pressure, there was kind of a smoldering fire in there,” said Meta firefighter JD Schroeder. “That we kind of had to tear things apart and get into and basically knock it all out, clean it up, make sure it didn't expand any further than it did."

Firefighters from Cole County, St. Elizabeth, Miller County and Osage County were all on standby in case the fire spread, but about a dozen Meta firefighters were able to knock it out within the hour.

They say some employees were evacuated from the plant during the fire, but no one was hurt.

The plant was open for business again Saturday.

September 26, 2007...http://www.itchmo.com/explosion-at-pet-food-plant-burns-three-workers-3059

September 26, 2007
Explosion At Pet Food Plant Burns Three Workers
Filed under: Cats, Dogs, National Dog, Cat & Pet Info, News for Cats, Dogs & Owners — Emily Huh @ 12:00 pm

Diamond

An explosion at the Diamond Pet Food facility in Lathrop, California burned three employees on Sunday morning.

Their injuries were serious enough that the employees were flown to the University of California, Davis, Regional Burn Center.

Fire Protection District Battalion Chief Gene Neely said the employees were welding in the tower of the pet food facility. The incident is still being investigated.

Neely said: “We believe that the welding operations in connection with the dust from the dog food caused the explosion in the tower.”

Safety checks by fire crews were conducted on Monday morning.

Diamond Pet Food officials did not return any phone calls for comments.

Source: Tri Valley Herald

(Thanks menusux)
16 Responses to “Explosion At Pet Food Plant Burns Three Workers”

Doppler

09-18-2009, 10:22 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cScf-4F3PL8

uplander

09-18-2009, 10:30 PM

It is what it is.....:D

JRs_Austin

09-18-2009, 10:42 PM

As a 3 time Super Bowl coach always says. "It is what it is"......:D
I don't think grain free TOTW has corn...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22505068/ns/health-pet_health/

This is not just about corn.....or was....Yes I lack confidence in some companies to consistently produce quality products...Only recently their top of the line Taste of the Wild was recalled...I thought they had turned a corner..obviously not...

Saturday, October 11, 2008 at 6:51 p.m.

September 26, 2007...http://www.itchmo.com/explosion-at-pet-food-plant-burns-three-workers-3059

Just out of curiosity what does a fire at the plant have to do with the quality of thier ingredients or food?

Woofie

09-18-2009, 10:45 PM

That's some pretty scary sh$t....wouldn't care what company name was behind it....wouldn't feed anything associated with it.

Take a look at that tiny terrier, just rips your heart out!

Woofie

09-18-2009, 10:47 PM

Just out of curiosity what does a fire at the plant have to do with the quality of thier ingredients or food?

JR's Austin...I don't think it's the fire article that was the main concern, if you look in the middle of that article there's options written in red ink to link you to other articles associated with the same company.....those red articles are ones of the recalls and showing some of the pets that died from kidney failure.

It's the link for the MSNBC, click on it, then go half-way down and click on a few of the red lettered links, read those articles....they're pretty freaky....to me anyways, as I no idea THAT many animals had been affected.....that's a lot. 350,000 bags had been recalled and linked to unlimited numbers of animals suffering to their deaths.

uplander

09-18-2009, 10:52 PM

Just out of curiosity what does a fire at the plant have to do with the quality of thier ingredients or food?

It all has to do with the age of the plants, up-keep, maintenance procedures involving safety....if you worked in manufacturing you wouldn't need to ask...

I am sure Diamond Pet wished google and newspapers were never invented....

But you are only as good as your quality controls and suppliers...
So..It is what it is...

JRs_Austin

09-18-2009, 10:57 PM

It all has to do with the age of the plants, up-keep, maintenance procedures involving safety....if you worked in manufacturing you wouldn't need to ask...

I am sure Diamond Pet wished google and newspapers were never invented....

But you are only as good as your quality controls and suppliers...
So..It is what it is...

Before you insert your foot into your mouth, I have worked in manufacturing, Accidents happen no matter what the equipment upkeep is.

I cannot believe how biased you are what did this company do pee in your cornflakes.

Feed what you wish I'll feed what I wish, as was said before the Kirklands food does not have corn so the 2005 recall is irrelivant

Doppler

09-19-2009, 07:37 AM

It is what it is.....:D

No.....it was what it was

bearsowner

09-19-2009, 08:15 AM

I don't understand some people, all this negative news about Diamond pet food and people insist on trusting them and buy their food. Uplander, it's like talking to the wall, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it...

I have yet to hear any negative news about Natura and the food they make...wonder why I switched to Innova, duh???

uplander

09-19-2009, 09:48 AM

No.....it was what it was
I wish it was what it was..but it is what it is...
08-18-2009, 09:01 PM

http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/taste-wild-recall-t7335637.html
I spoke with TOTW today, it was one lot of pacific Stream involved. The lady I spoke with said it came from SC plant . In the one specific lot I was told there was not enough moisture so it made the protein go higher.

The code that is going around different forums being called back is TDP0701 with a best before date of July 1st, 2010 from the SC plant.

When I talked to diamond today I asked if it was true if there is an x in the middle of the lot number does that mean it was made in SC , was told yes. Also there will be an M in the middle of lot number if it is made in MO and a Cin the middle of lot number if made in CA

Here are some links to other forums where being discussed

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?...c=236846&st=20

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showtopic=236846

http://dolforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43116

hope it wwas ok to post links

kathy

Any of us who know Pet Food like yourself see the response about why they had the recall is bold face lies...If the food was dried too much the only component changing would be the amount of water....and it would make the kibble a little brittle..but not change the amount of protein...Most likely a vomitoxin of some type contaminated the food....They say they have 151 checks for quality.....Are they just check marks or actual tests ? If those 151 quality control checks are utilized every batch of food...The Bad batch of TOTW would never have been made, bagged, or shipped....

mhb

09-20-2009, 05:56 AM

Can we please get this thread back on track??

congrats the pup is tolerating the new food better. at this age its amazing how important a nice stool is to us owners. we had the same problem with Cassie.

When i got her she was on proplan for puppies. her stool was fine. i joined the lab board and started reading. decided she needed a better food. we had months of loose stool trying to find something that worked. should have stayed with proplan.

its interesting to read about barley, I didnt know that. i had thought that perhaps the premium puppy food was too rich for her. either way glad you found a food that works, and even better that its a great product.

Doppler

09-20-2009, 08:28 AM

Barley has been discussed here before but it's worth mentioning again. Barley is a relative of wheat and contains quite a bit of gluten. Some dogs that can't tolerate wheat can tolerate some forms of barley (pearled).

Barley is a member of a non-scientifically established grain group traditionally called the "gluten grains". The idea of grouping certain grains together under the label "gluten grains" has come into question in recent years as technology has given food scientists a way to look more closely at the composition of grains. Some healthcare practitioners continue to group wheat, oats, barley and rye together under the heading of "gluten grains" and to ask for elimination of the entire group on a wheat-free diet. Other practitioners now treat wheat separately from these other grains, including barley, based on recent research. Wheat is unquestionably a more common source of food reactions than any of the other "gluten grains," including barley. Although you may initially want to eliminate barley from your meal planning if you are implementing a wheat-free diet, you will want to experiment at some point with re-introduction of this food. You may be able to take advantage of its diverse nutritional benefits without experiencing an adverse reaction. Individuals with wheat-related conditions like celiac sprue or gluten-sensitive enteropathies should consult with their healthcare practitioner before experimenting with any of the "gluten grains," including barley.

Barley can be found in the market in various different forms:

Hulled barley: While the indigestible hull of the barley grain is removed, the bran is left intact, so hulled barley features a superior nutritional content compared to other forms of barley.
Pearl barley: The whole barley grain has be intensely milled to produce pearl barley, which results in the removal of both its outer hull and its fiber-rich bran layer.
Pot/scotch barley: This form of barley undergoes more extensive milling than the hulled variety, but is still less processed than the pearled form and therefore retains a portion of its bran layer.
Barley flakes: Flattened and sliced, barley flakes are similar in shape to rolled oats.
Barley grits: Barley that has been toasted and cracked, barley grits are similar in appearance to bulgar.

http://grindstonebakery.com/barley.htm

tobyboy09

09-20-2009, 12:18 PM

Update...the INNOVA is working great! :) He loves the food and we haven't any more diarrhea!! We noticed that this food also had Barley in it which some had said to try and see if maybe he had an allergy to that, so it looks like that wasn't the case at all. I think that the Blue Buffalo was just too rich for him. The other question that we had now that we know this is a good fit for him is when would it be ok to switch him over to the INNOVA EVO adult food? I know that they say that the puppy food is for dogs under 1 year of age but because he is English he'll be huge by then and we didn't know if he would still need to be on the puppy or if we could switch him a little earlier.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=35027425&id=27314588&ref=mf

Woofie

09-20-2009, 12:49 PM

Are you feeding Innova *adult* version;i..e green bag??

If so, that's GREAT....leave him on that until he's over 2yrs of age.

You don't want to feed Evo until after 24mnths of age; EVO is geared more for fully mature dogs who are done growing.

GlennBaxterFam

10-23-2009, 12:36 AM

Just to throw in my 2 cents as well.

Bo started out with the runs once in awhile. By the time he was 10 months old he was having constant, runny, bloody, mucuos filled stool and we know it was more than just the food. We switch his food many time. We tried EVO, Innova, Nurtro, we even tried pedigree all with the same results. The ONLY time he had "normal" stools was on prescribtion food and his vet at the time said it was not good for him, as a large breed puppy, to be on this food but the constant runs wasn't any better.

We were at the Vet every other day trying to figure out what was wrong with him. We spent $1,000's of dollars on tests that all came back negitive, including testing for giardia 4 times!

Finally we took him to another vet who said she thought she knew what the problem was but needed to do a fecal. I quickly informed her he had been tested, repeatedly and was negitive for everything. She did the test anyway and low and behold he came back positive for giardia! This vet did the antigen test for giardia and not just a fecal.

Bo ended up with IBD because of the giardia and the ONLY food he could tolerate was CN's chicken or lamb.

I took Bo back to the vet that did not find the giardia and we worked together to find a food that worked for Bo. On her suggestion I started to feed California Natural Chicken and Rice and then in about 4 months we tried the lamb. He did fabulous on both, as long as I only fed him CN.

Sometimes puppies/dogs cannot tolerate the "better" foods and sometimes they can. It all depends on the puppy!

Token on the other hand is eating TOTW High Prairie and doing great on it!

labsnewfy

10-23-2009, 09:14 AM

Glad to hear that your food roller coaster ride is over and you found something that works for your baby.

mckjen

10-23-2009, 11:54 AM

Good to know Innova is working well for you!

Innova has barley in it -so for this dog the barley was not the culprit. And I see you noticed that :)

I believe that Natura recommends waiting to feed EVO until age 2.

zoezoe

10-24-2009, 08:27 PM

don't have time to read all the posts, but get him off the yogurt and pumpkin, etc. at his age PUPPY FOOD ONLY. i made this mistake with zoe. i remember my mom seeing me give her yogurt and commenting that it as probably contributing to her runs...sure enough....it was not helping. feed smaller amounts 3 times a day and don't add anything to it. there is plenty of time for that in the future.

Parapara

10-26-2009, 06:57 PM

Seriously, don't be ridiculous, OF COURSE if your dog doesn't do well on the food, by all means change it. But the point here is that many get on here and read all the hype and think that the first thing that they need to do is get their pup off Iams and on to some natural, expensive food because someone like you "said so" and then the pup has constant diarrhea and looses valuable nutrition during the time it's most critical.

Corn isn't as bad as everyone says. I think even research as shown that other grains are far more likely to produce an allergy than corn. Heck, nothing wrong with chicken, yet there are dogs that can't eat it.

We aren't talking about an older dog that has clear signs of food intolerances. This is a case of someone with a pup that decided he didn't like the food. Honestly, if that happens in our house, we let them go a little hungry or perhaps add some hot water to moisten the kibble, maybe a bit of cottage cheese or a spoon of canned tripe. My dogs don't have food issues. Grains are fine for them. I am not opposed to corn (not as the MAIN ingredient, but in it is OK for me) if the dogs eat, look great and poop fine.

This wasn't a case of a dog not doing well on a food, so they NEEDED to change. This was a case of the dog not eating as quickly as before. I actually think Doppler may be on to something, when pups teeth, they do sometimes go off their food.

It's not that I am opposed to changing foods when needed, even though I recommend that pup owners stay on the breeders food for several months before switching (especially if coat and poops are fine!). I change foods too. Maddy started having terrible gas on the Kirkland which we had fed for over a year. Jed stopped eating with gusto too and had the runs (partly due to ghiardia). We moved back to Pro Plan and the gas is gone and Jed is eating again, and the boys are maintaining the weight they need for the show ring.

I just think too many so called "experts" are quick to shame newer folks into thinking they are doing wrong by their dogs when they feed something other than Innova, Cal Natural, etc. I agree these foods are great, but not all dogs do well on them, not all people can afford them, not all people can actually find it sold in their area. And if there are people in the sport of dogs who I admire who have gone through the food rollercoaster themselves and settle on a commercial kibble such as Eukanuba or Pro Plan, honestly? I would rather believe them and the results they achieve than the self-professed food experts here on this board.

I can see what you're saying, but I just have an issue with giving my dog a main diet of corn, like in Beneful and Dog Chow. I think being carnivorous, their main diet should be meat protein..... not a vegetable. But I'm not going to judge anyone who feeds something different :D~ Everyone's entitled to feed what they like! To me it's like feeding Denny's, or Buger King, compared to a fancy restaurant. Can you live off Burger King? Sure! Can a fancy restaurant give you the runs, maybe even make you sick because the food is too rich? Of course.