Or badly bred......

Can someone help me and tell me what you think Schaefer is? The reason I am asking is because I always thought he did not have a block head and was maybe more of the american.....but over the weekend, when I took him to our first day of joining the local Retriever Club, one person said he appeared to be a breed dog (short and more of a show dog than field dog) and another one told me that he had english look with block head.

Of course, I just kind of took it all in stride and also said, why does it matter. If he has the drive to retrieve, then he should not have a problem doing the retriever training and hunt/field tests should I get that far in training.

Anyways, here we go. These pictures are from the last week. He is just over 23 weeks (5 1/2 months). I really do not care what kind I have, but I would like clarification for future.

Thanks

Doug


http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad45/Zman1001/th_IMAG0094.jpg

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad45/Zman1001/th_IMAG0072.jpg

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad45/Zman1001/th_IMAG0083.jpg

Pics are too small, we'd need a standing shot and larger photos, a close up of the head and chest and a good look at the tail...

but... go google some pics of English bred and Field bred dogs. They should give you a good idea. Field bred dogs are taller and more lithe in structure. English bred dogs are shorter and built like tanks. Broad chests, very muscular.

Thanks. Do not know how to get bigger pictures. I put them in photobucket and this is how they come out.

I will try to get a better picture of his standing up.

If you ask 100 people, you'll get 100 different answers.

I don't necessarily LOOK at a dog to make that determination. I look at the pedigree.

A pedigree full of show champions, bought from a breeder that shows, that showed both parents, the dog will typically look like the parents and be of the show/bench variety...obviously. A pedigree full of field/hunting champions, bought from a breeder that actively competes, that's the kind of puppy you are going to get.

You buy a dog from a back yard breeder or a pet store or a neighbor who "just had one litter"...most of the parents have no titled dogs in their pedigree or maybe a few sprinkled in. You may get the blocky head and nice tail from a show ancestor, paired with thin tall legs and a lanky body from a field ancestor. You can then call your dog whatever characteristic stands out the most. If he's got the head of a nice show variety lab, then you can tell folks he's of the English style. He's tall, got a thin tail and muzzle, then tell folks that he's of the American style.

It's like Maddy, I got her from a bad breeder before I knew better. She has 1 famous hunting dog in her line and 1 show champion. She has thin legs, a curled up thin tail, an longer thinner head and muzzle...she's the field/American style. That breeder bred to produce pets, and she is a wonderful pet!

When looking at AKC papers, There are a total of 4 MH, 1 JH and 1 FC on the mothers side. I think there are a total of 2 MH on fathers side.

I know that all of the dogs that the breeder owns are hunters. They all (have 5 of them) go to South Dakota annually for hunting trips.

I guess I see your point. As I said, I really do not care. I wanted a pet, not a hunter, or show dog. However, with that being said. I like the outdoors and would love to get into the retriever training to give me something to do and also allow me to work the dog so that he does become a great pet.

Thank you all.
Doug

When looking at AKC papers, There are a total of 4 MH, 1 JH and 1 FC on the mothers side. I think there are a total of 2 MH on fathers side.

I know that all of the dogs that the breeder owns are hunters. They all (have 5 of them) go to South Dakota annually for hunting trips.

I guess I see your point. As I said, I really do not care. I wanted a pet, not a hunter, or show dog. However, with that being said. I like the outdoors and would love to get into the retriever training to give me something to do and also allow me to work the dog so that he does become a great pet.

Thank you all.
Doug

If you don't see CH in front of any names, you don't have bench (show) dogs behind your puppy. And a 5.5 months, your boy has a ton of growing and maturing to do. He'll likely end up as a combination of his parents.

Looks american/field to me..

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/jkramer699/IMG_2302.jpg

I have one of each - not a very good pic but you can see some differences.

And the thing too, is if he does end up with a big blocky head, it could be great great great great great grandpa contributing a few genes into the mix. If you get bored, you might want to see how far back in the pedigree you can go.

I did that once and was able to go so far back that I found a common relative between Maddy (field) and Hudler (show lines).

Doug, your pup's pedigree had shown you what you have along with your description of the breeders hunting prowess. I can't tell from the pics, but the pedigree would indicate field lab to me.

Doug, your pup's pedigree had shown you what you have along with your description of the breeders hunting prowess. I can't tell from the pics, but the pedigree would indicate field lab to me.

The breeder who bred my older two and the mother of my pup started with a pair of English imports, one of which she did finish in breed and still breeds primarily from bench lines, but no longer shows in breed much, so the only CH's in my guys pedigree are several generations back. She does show in obedience and is an AKC hunt test judge, so there are multiple obedience and hunt titles in their pedigrees. Point being, the lack of CH's doesn't necessarily indicate field lines ... could be bench lines that aren't being shown.

That being said, the FC in this dog's pedigree indicates at least one likely field bred ancestor, but I know several performance people who combine field and bench lines to get the kind of dogs they are looking for.

I guess this is a long way of saying I have no idea, but if I had to, I'd guess a mix of bench lines that haven't been shown in several generations with a field dog thrown in here and there.

And the thing too, is if he does end up with a big blocky head, it could be great great great great great grandpa contributing a few genes into the mix. If you get bored, you might want to see how far back in the pedigree you can go.

I did that once and was able to go so far back that I found a common relative between Maddy (field) and Hudler (show lines).


How do you do this? I do have a copy of the Mother's pedigree, so it gets me to her parents, their parents and then their parents (great grand....).

I have tried the AKC website, but I have no idea of where to look to find it.

Thanks
Doug

Looks american/field to me..

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/jkramer699/IMG_2302.jpg

I have one of each - not a very good pic but you can see some differences.

Thanks. After seeing picture of side by side, I agree with you. I just think he may be a little bit shorter than some of his peers at this point in his life. I want to try and measure him, but I can never get him to stand still when the tape measure is around......I guess he will not be a good show dog huh....can never stand still.......lol