I hope I am not asking a question that has already been asked! I have been reading a book about labs, and it says that I should feed my puppy an adult maintenance food. The reason being that the high protein and fat content of puppy food may encourage my puppy to grow too fast, putting it at risk for orthopedic problems. Has anyone else heard this? I always thought puppies needed a high protein, high fat diet just as human babies do. Anyone have any comments or suggestions?

I hope I am not asking a question that has already been asked! I have been reading a book about labs, and it says that I should feed my puppy an adult maintenance food. The reason being that the high protein and fat content of puppy food may encourage my puppy to grow too fast, putting it at risk for orthopedic problems. Has anyone else heard this? I always thought puppies needed a high protein, high fat diet just as human babies do. Anyone have any comments or suggestions?



Hello and welcome!

Many Lab owners will change to an adult formula at about 4-5 months old. This is what we did with Toby and he did just fine.

Some people never feed a puppy formula at all.

How old is your puppy and what are you feeding?

Well I will be getting my puppy this weekend and she will be 8 weeks old. The breeder has been feeding her Nutro puppy food. I wasn't sure if I should continue with that or just buy a small bag of nutro to start mixing it in to change food.

For the first few weeks I'd keep your new puppy on the food she has been eating at her breeder's. I agree that you can start a switch to adult dog food any time between 4 to 6 months, although I kept my English Setters on large breed puppy food until they were a year old. Just be careful of the calcium and phosphorous ratio when feeding adult food to a puppy.

It all depends on your goals. Get big fast? That is exactly what puppy chow is formulated to do. Puppy chow is part of the agrascience that puts all the affordable meat on our tables.

Sturdy joints for a long active life? Keep the puppy lean and make an early switch to adult chow. The puppy should reach the same adult size later, but with sound joints.

Nobody has more resources to determine proper dog care or more incentive to follow the best practices than the service dog schools. We have raised puppies for 2 different schools and I have found several other schools follow about the same thing.

I am no Nutro fan, but I would stick to it to 4 months, and then change to an adult brand you are comfortable with.

I kept Luna on Orijen Large Breed Puppy kibble until she was 7 months old. But the large breed puppy formula wasn't much different (except for the calcium/phosphorus ratio) than the Orijen Adult.

Don't get too caught up on the labeling of puppy, adult or all life stages food. Look at the nutritional analysis and the ingredient information on the bags or online. Protein percentages in the upper 20s, fat at 16% to 19%, and calcium maximum under 1.5% is often quoted as desirable levels for puppies. Protein and fat are what dogs utilize most. Meat-based protein tends to be more easily digestible and provide more complete amino acids as building blocks for growing. I agree with staying with the Nutro for a week or two while your puppy gets used to its new home, but then changing to a different brand appropriate for puppies would be desirable IMO.

I would continue what she has been eating for at least a week to get her through the stress of a new home and then if you want to change do it gradually. I'm not a big fan of Nutro either but if you decide to switch, be it puppy, adult, or ALS (all life stages, really puppy food), try to plan it so she isn't changing foods about the time she will be having vaccinations. Take her to your vet within 72 hrs to get a health check and don't forget to take her proof of vaccinations and a stool sample with you.

Feeding your puppy an adult maintenance food or puppy food is usually a recommendation that is made by your breeder. If your breeder is a responsible breeder that gets health clearances (x-rays, CERF etc.) done on all their breeding dogs then I would follow what they say, in fact it may even be stated in a contract. If you are getting your puppy from a BYB (back yard breeder) without health clearances on the parents, no contract, then you may want to make that decision yourself. Calcium and Phosphorus percentages as well as the Ca to P ratio is the most important criteria in picking a puppy food. You might find some useful information in the "stickies" at the top of the Diet and Nutrition page or in the FAQ & Useful Reference Guides (http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/faq-useful-reference-f64.html). You could also do a search or post more questions for help. Once she reaches 14 months old her growth plates will close and higher calcium foods shouldn't be a problem.

With my last puppy, I fed puppy food until around 4 months and then switched her over to adult. She grew slow and evenly but that could be her lines. I never had any orthopedic problems (she's 2 now) and maybe others will share their experiences for you. As it was stated in Lovemylabby's post, some people never use puppy food.

Good luck with your new baby, we love pictures :) and there's a lot of info here. Welcome to the board.

I've read just about every article on this subject and still see arguments for both sides...

Please call the company whose food you choose and ask what the N/A of the Calcium is.. That is the real figure... not what is on the bag guarantee.. A major problem the FDA needs to correct... Many companies use the 6 month rule to wait and post changes to use up old bags...

The simplest way to explain how bones grow in pups is that before 6 months of age they can not excrete excess Calcium and any consumed will be utilized.. Most times by the long bones in the legs.. not giving enough time for the joints to form correctly and fill with collagen.. At 12 months of age the ability to excrete and self-regulate calcium has fully formed..

Good luck with the new pup.. After 3 months of age start keeping the pup on the thin side..Excess weight on the growing joints is a major concern ..

It all depends on your goals. Get big fast? That is exactly what puppy chow is formulated to do. Puppy chow is part of the agrascience that puts all the affordable meat on our tables.

Sturdy joints for a long active life? Keep the puppy lean and make an early switch to adult chow. The puppy should reach the same adult size later, but with sound joints.

Nobody has more resources to determine proper dog care or more incentive to follow the best practices than the service dog schools. We have raised puppies for 2 different schools and I have found several other schools follow about the same thing.

I am no Nutro fan, but I would stick to it to 4 months, and then change to an adult brand you are comfortable with.

Please explain to me how feeding puppy chow beyond 4 or 5 months does anything to a dog's joints.

As I stated before I fed my two English Setters Eagle Pack Large and Giant Breed Puppy food until they were a year old and their OFA hip and elbow results came back excellent hips, normal elbows for Logan and good hips, normal elbows for Hamish. I consider those results the proof that my dogs have "sound joints" even though they were fed puppy food until their first birthdays.

I do agree with your "keep the puppy lean" theory but there is no written proof that feeding puppy food longer than the first few months does any harm to joints!

Please explain to me how feeding puppy chow beyond 4 or 5 months does anything to a dog's joints.

As I stated before I fed my two English Setters Eagle Pack Large and Giant Breed Puppy food until they were a year old and their OFA hip and elbow results came back excellent hips, normal elbows for Logan and good hips, normal elbows for Hamish. I consider those results the proof that my dogs have "sound joints" even though they were fed puppy food until their first birthdays.

I do agree with your "keep the puppy lean" theory but there is no written proof that feeding puppy food longer than the first few months does any harm to joints!

I think he means feeding a regular puppy food, not a large or giant breed formula. Regular puppy food has too much calcium and calories for our gentle giants. He should have been more clear.

No, I mean large breed puppy chows too. There is more to it than calcium. They are still rich enough to promote faster growth adding stress to developing joints.

''As I stated before I fed my two English Setters Eagle Pack Large and Giant Breed Puppy food until they were a year old and their OFA hip and elbow results came back excellent hips, normal elbows for Logan and good hips, normal elbows for Hamish. I consider those results the proof that my dogs have "sound joints" even though they were fed puppy food until their first birthdays.''

Any 2 dogs proves nothing. Your experience with them is equivalent to a few days of experience of any one of the larger service dog schools. They have experience with thousands of dogs over the years, and even the ones that start puppies on large breed puppy chows, are heavily commited to the early switch. They have found it substatially reduces the percentage of joint problems. I am slow to question practices that are common among well informed professionals.

Unfortunately, I don't have much documentation on this. There is some material at http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/articles2.html#nutrition I had hacked into Guide Dogs of the Desert's on line puppy manual, but appearently they revised the manual and the link doesn't work any more. In general, the service dog schools are in the business of supplying service dogs, not educating the public in the best dog care practices. I have checked around and never come across any publications by any of the schools. I certainly think I make a better case for the early switch to adult chow than many others do on nutritional topics.

Labman says "there is more to it than calcium. They (large breed puppy chows) are still rich enough to promote faster growth adding stress to developing joints."

My question: What is your definition of "rich" in your statement? It is a vague term when anyone uses it and I can't determine what you mean by it here.

Luna was on Orijen Large Breed Puppy until she was 7 months and then switched to Orijen Adult. I searched the bag information and the company site at the time and couldn't find any differences except for the calcium/phosphorus levels and glucosamine amounts. Protein, fat, carbs, calories, ingredients, etc. all appeared to be the same.

I am curious to see a specific example of a large breed puppy formula compared to the same company's regular adult formula; and have what is "rich" about it identified. Perhaps I'm not familiar with enough brands.

I'm feeding Orijen for about a year now and fed other grain free/hi protein prior to that. I have researched this and been talking with breeders for over a year about raising pups on hi protein food. These breeders pups all do wonderful - as well as their adults and seniors. I will be weaning and raising my next litter on Orijen.

Here is info on hi protein for pups - http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/puppy-protein/

My concern with a puppy food or switching to an adult is the cal/phos. It would make more sense to keep a pup on LB Pup Orijen at 1.4 cal until 1 year - rather than switch to adult at 1.6 cal at 4-6 months of age.

Hi protein is not detrimental to growing pups IMO. Cal and cal/phos ratio, as well as neutering or spaying too early is. (but that has already been discussed in an earlier thread in the health section).

And Labman while I have to commend you for all you do raising service pups - service organizations are not the gurus (sp) of dog nutrition.

Pattybreeder, I doubt you begin to understand how much real data the service dog schools have accumulated. I fail to imagine how anyone else could come close. Oh by the way, they work closely with the researchers in schools of veterinary science such as Penn State, Purdue, and other large land grant colleges.

I will say both adult and puppy chows vary from one brand to the next. In fact, some of the large breed puppy chows are now adult chows in everything except price.

Pattybreeder, I doubt you begin to understand how much real data the service dog schools have accumulated. I fail to imagine how anyone else could come close. Oh by the way, they work closely with the researchers in schools of veterinary science such as Penn State, Purdue, and other large land grant colleges.

I will say both adult and puppy chows vary from one brand to the next. In fact, some of the large breed puppy chows are now adult chows in everything except price.

You have admitted yourself that the service dog school is sponsored by Purina.

I've said this before and I will say it again.... if I want help with my dog's diet, I am going to a canine nutritionist... not a trainer.

I hope I am not asking a question that has already been asked! I have been reading a book about labs, and it says that I should feed my puppy an adult maintenance food. The reason being that the high protein and fat content of puppy food may encourage my puppy to grow too fast, putting it at risk for orthopedic problems. Has anyone else heard this? I always thought puppies needed a high protein, high fat diet just as human babies do. Anyone have any comments or suggestions?
Hammer I hope we haven't confused you. Food questions around here are ALWAYS up for debate.
Nutro isn't the best food but also not the worst. I would feed your pup whatever the breeder feeds for at least a week. This will get the pup over the stress of coming home to you. You should have your pup on a Large Breed food.
I fed my pup Jack Blue Buffalo LB Puppy until he was 6mos old. I then changed him to California Naturals Herring & Sweet Potato Adult food. The advice I can give you is to feed him the best food you can find.
Go to www.dogfoodanalysis.com (http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com) it will give you ratings on the foods you are looking at and some reviews. It will help you identify which foods are worth your money and will promote your pups best health.
It can be safely said that any food found at the back of Petsmart, anything in a grocery store and anything found at Walmart you should scratch off your list. Many of these foods contain cancer causing presevatives & low quality grains from uncontrolled Asian sources.
Hope this helps.

Pattybreeder, I doubt you begin to understand how much real data the service dog schools have accumulated. I fail to imagine how anyone else could come close. Oh by the way, they work closely with the researchers in schools of veterinary science such as Penn State, Purdue, and other large land grant colleges.

I will say both adult and puppy chows vary from one brand to the next. In fact, some of the large breed puppy chows are now adult chows in everything except price.


You're always gripping for written proof so do you have written proof, other than the article on Laura/Labby's website that confirm any of your claims?

Also, if vet school are working with service organizations in regards to nutrition why is one of the largest vet schools in the west, UC Davis, not doing any such research or data gathering?

I think sir you have it in your head that your way is the only way because you have raised a few service dog puppies. I've been involved with breeding and raising litters since I was in my teens, I assisted my mother who bred & showed Poms, and I bet a dollar to a donuts I've raised more dogs than you have. I was merely using my two current English Setters as an example of how large breed puppy food DID NOT ruin their joints.

You have admitted yourself that the service dog school is sponsored by Purina.

I've said this before and I will say it again.... if I want help with my dog's diet, I am going to a canine nutritionist... not a trainer.

I never said any such thing. While I am sure Purina gives them a good deal on the Pro Plan they buy, you never see any dog food ads touting that such and such a service dog school feeds their product.

While the schools' primary focus is on training dogs, they hate spending the price of a car on training a dog that won't be able to work for 10 years or more after it is trained. Thus they have an enormous incentive in addition to the means to become highly knowledgable about all aspects of dog care.

Yes, you would go to a dog nutritionist. Not one that attended a major university, but one whose head is filled junk science that fits your world view. It is a real shame you and a few others aren't willing to reexamine your views and continue to ignore reality.

Labman, what ingredients or protein, fat, carb percentages make a food "rich"? I've heard some adult foods called "rich" as well and I don't know what to look for.

I fed my girl large breed puppy food until she was a year old. I did this beacuse I wanted to follow the recommendations in the Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, 4th Ed chapter on "Developmental Orthopedic Disease of Dogs." I found that adult foods, in general, had a higher energy density (more fat) than did the puppy food.

The book recommends:
"A growth food with average energy density should contain 22-32% protein (DMB) of high biologic value."
Fat not exceed 12% (dry matter basis)
Calcium should be in the range of .7-1.2% (dry matter basis)
The preferable calcium/phophorus ratio is 1.1:1.

Pattybreeder, I doubt you begin to understand how much real data the service dog schools have accumulated. I fail to imagine how anyone else could come close. Oh by the way, they work closely with the researchers in schools of veterinary science such as Penn State, Purdue, and other large land grant colleges.

I will say both adult and puppy chows vary from one brand to the next. In fact, some of the large breed puppy chows are now adult chows in everything except price.


And another Guide School uses this:


Roberta Kaman

Vice-President and Director of

Operations and Animal Husbandry

Fidelco Guide Dog Foundation Inc.

Bloomfield, CT

To Whom It May Concern,

We have been using various Abady Foods at the Fidelco Guide Dog Foundation Inc. for twenty years on both our adult breeding stock and our puppies. In that period, as Mr. Abady, President of The Robert Abady Dog Food Company Ltd. anticipated, we eliminated hip dysplasia from our canine colony. In fact the hips on our German Shepherd’s breeding stock are text-book perfect as are the hips on all the puppies under our total control. Of the approximately two thousand puppies we have placed in foster homes for socialization, ninety percent are dysplasia free and only ten percent evidenced it mildly. We attribute this to, possibly, our lack of rigid feeding control over these particular puppies that are placed in foster homes. Prior to using Abady, fifty percent of our puppies developed hip dysplasia, some of it severe, even crippling. Prior to using Abady we fed National brands.

I can say with certainty that in our experience, the proper combination of Abady foods when fed as directed, will not only prevent hip dysplasia but develop thoroughly sound animals.

I might add that in twenty years of feeding Abady foods to our German Shepherd colony, we have not experienced any incidence of bloat or torsion.

Out of gratitude to the Abady Company and to Mr. Abady personally, I give my permission to the Abady Company to use this statement as needed.

http://therobertabadydogfoodcoltd.com/State%20of%20The%20Art%20Large%20Breed%20Pups%20In gred.htm

Check out the Calcium in this food... and a reduction of Hip Dysplasia ? And they used National brands before...

Any explanation ????

Well I figured I would put my :2cents: in. I had planned on switching Lola to adult food at 6 months but did at 5 because she has a really sensitive stomach and somehow, the adult food produces better stools. My old vet said to feed her puppy food until she was 12 months because she is not really big and she is very lean. I am happy with my decision to feed her adult food at this time. I know several other people with puppies who are feeding puppy food until a year. I switched to a vet who had experience with large breed dogs and she said it's fine to feed the adult food at 5-6 months. She also said Lola isn't really a large breed dog...can be considered medium breed. But, as some pointed out, you can find a million reasons on each side pro and con for almost everything food related here. Good luck and the best advice I can give is to find a vet who won't just group your large breed puppy in with all other dogs. Can't wait to see pics!

http://therobertabadydogfoodcoltd.com/State%20of%20The%20Art%20Large%20Breed%20Pups%20In gred.htm

Check out the Calcium in this food... and a reduction of Hip Dysplasia ? And they used National brands before...

Any explanation ????

Well for starters, comparing any current chow to what was being fed 20 years ago is completely invalid. Did the improvement come immediately after the switch, or slowly over the years due to careful breeding and other factors? Even if one school is having success with a premium brand, that proves nothing about how well other schools are doing using other brands.