I've been thinking about this for quite sometime. Can someone list the absoulte best guidelines of ingredients - levels to look for when selecting a "best" food for your Lab?

For example- what are the ingredients that you absolutley want to avoid.
What common or not so common foods are allergy prone
Cause the runs- constipation-yeasty ears etc.
What are the prime ingredients to look for ( Best protien sources-best fat sources-)
What grains are acceptable? and more importantly what FORMS are unacceptable/acceptable.
What protein levels are acceptable or desired for what ages - puppyhood/adult/senior?
calcium levels etc.
I think that if we compiled a list of things to desire when making selctions in foods that would make some feel better about their food choices. If we can arm ourselves with the info then we can make better choices for our dogs.
THIS THREAD IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND ANYONE
I still beleive that you choice of chow is a personal choice based on ones own personal desire and the indivual dog.
Peace.

You may or may not be able to avoid certain problems through careful selection of a chow. Allergies are not one you can. Some dogs will develop allergies to a protein they have eaten for a long time. Such allergies to corn, chicken, lamb, etc. are the leading cause of allergies because they are the leading types of protein. Start your dog on venison, potato, duck, barley, etc., it may become allergic to them. One strategy to manage the problem is to pick one protein and stick to it. As the rotators will tell you, the dog may well become allergic to it. If one does, you can switch to a new protein. My friend's dog guide grew up on Pro Plan chicken and rice and eventually developed an allergy to chicken. The dog is now doing fine on Iams lamb and rice. If it later has a problem with it, she has several other possibilities. If you can get 5 years or more out of each one, you are reaching the end of the dog's live. The more different things you feed a dog when it is young, the tougher it is to work around it if it ever does have allergies.

The store I buy stuff from has this brochure which I think is great:

http://www.wagnwash.com/petsake.pdf

Also, don't over think the food situation. There are a ton of great foods out there and not all dogs do well on them. And then there are certain "give and takes" to consider. Like I want a great food, but have a limited budget due to feeding 5. I can't feed them some of the brands I would like because of that. So we are doing the Kirkland brand Lamb & Rice. I have decided it's OK to give rice flour and beet pulp to get 80# for what I would normally spend on 30#.

I am totally impressed by simpicity..... I was very confused from past experiences but by following my breeders recommendation on puppy feeding I have a very healthy 9 month old.

Cal Nat Lamb Puppy , then to Cal Nat Lamb Adult at 4 months, supplemented with Dr. Belfield's Mega C plus...(I also give fish oil capsules and a Vit E because Cal Nat has little omega 3 and DHA) Also I will give my pup 5- 6 EVO dog treats every day.... that seems to work as my pup looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger in the muscle tone dept.

The idea of feeding simple and then adding fresh foods also makes sense. If you start with less different proteins and carb sources it is easier to rule out food sensitivities.

The people posting on the nutrition section are most likely to have a pup or grown dog who could benefit from the Navy Seals Training motto...

K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid .... It takes Mr. Murphy out of the equation.

I try and keep away from "by-products" or anything that is just listed as "animal" and not identifed.. Other than that, everything is pretty much subjective for me. Lex seems to scratch more with rice-based grains and/or oatmeal.. so we go grainfree. She also vomits after eating anything with lamb, so we feed other pretiens..

Lex does best on fish-based foods...

So, it's these kinds of observations that can help you decide.. Can someone successfully live on McDonalds? Yes... Can everyone? No.. When we got Lex, she was doing GREAT on Pedigree.. We made a personal decision to not feed her that kind of food..

I tend to think that with foods, it comes down to "dollars and sense"..

How much money can you afford to spend or are willing to spend? And does feeding one brand/flavor/type over another make more sense?

Good luck..

Cal Nat Lamb Puppy , then to Cal Nat Lamb Adult at 4 months, supplemented with Dr. Belfield's Mega C plus...(
I suspect the careful breeding behind your puppy would lead him to do well on a variety of foods. While you are justifiably proud of your breeder's accomplishments (and it is incredibly difficult to carry on successful lines), I'm sure she would be the first to give credit to the outstanding breeding behind her dogs. The late Annie Cogo of Windfall Labradors had unprecedented success while feeding Eukanuba and Diamond products :)

There really are many paths to dog feeding enlightenment ;) Look at the wildly different philosophies behind the two mainstays of your own puppy's food. While Natura says their products are "not deficient in any nutrient" and should only be supplemented "upon the advice of your veterinarian", Dr. Belfield writes on his web site that he doesn't approve of ANY commercial dog food at all!
Food Not Fit for a Pet

Which commercial pet food do I recommend? That's the one question I am asked most frequently in my practice. My standard answer is "none."

my recommendation would be to feed your pets only food that you would eat, such as scraps from the table or from the butcher.
http://www.belfield.com/pet_health_art3.php I found that a bit odd, since I was under the impression he had had a hand in developing some of the Natura commercial foods? In any case, despite not following the guidelines of either company, your method has obviously produced a very healthy puppy, and that's the bottom line. :tup2:

I think that if we compiled a list of things to desire when making selctions in foods that would make some feel better about their food choices. If we can arm ourselves with the info then we can make better choices for our dogs.
THIS THREAD IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND ANYONE
I still beleive that you choice of chow is a personal choice based on ones own personal desire and the indivual dog.
Peace.
The problem is that there really ISN'T one best way to feed Labradors. While it might be nice if there was, the reality is probably even more encouraging. :) In "real life" most Labradors will not just survive, but will thrive on a variety of very different formulas. We see dogs glowing on high protein/high fat, on low protein/high carbs, on grains, on no grains, on by-products, without by-products, on raw, on cooked. If our dogs are thriving, we are doing right by them. If they aren't, then we have a responsibility to work to make them healthy. Isn't this the bottom line?

By the same token, if someone else's dog is thriving on something different, then they too are acting as responsible owners. It really is just that simple.

Much of the information on the internet is driven by profit and/or ego, and it can be quite difficult to tease out the threads of truth. Please remember that even the "worst" fed dogs in North America eat a better diet than many, many humans around the world, and our ability to even engage in this debate is a luxury we tend to take for granted.

....
Much of the information on the internet is driven by profit and/or ego, and it can be quite difficult to tease out the threads of truth. .....

I have long puzzled over why I am so at odds over chow with many on the internet. Much of it has to do with me being part of a large, successful program before I was even doing email.

Today I remembered my old friend that was the office manager at a local auto dealership when I first met him. Later I learned his limp was from an accident that ended his career in the circus. I once asked him what it was like to now work in an auto dealership. He replied, ''I couldn't do if it didn't have much of the circus in it.'' Often buying cars is not a left brain event, MPG, cd, G's, seconds, etc. The right brain goes wow and reaches for the checkbook.

And in the center ring, Eagle Pack Holistic.....

[quote=Labman;1963736070]I have long puzzled over why I am so at odds over chow with many on the internet. Much of it has to do with me being part of a large, successful program before I was even doing email.
quote]

I am pretty brand new to this board (in terms of posting comments) and based on your responses I have read, majority of the time you come across very narrow minded and it is like your way or the highway.

Once in awhile some your comments are very thoughtful without offending other folks. These comments are what I enjoy reading.

The problem is that there really ISN'T one best way to feed Labradors. While it might be nice if there was, the reality is probably even more encouraging. :) In "real life" most Labradors will not just survive, but will thrive on a variety of very different formulas. We see dogs glowing on high protein/high fat, on low protein/high carbs, on grains, on no grains, on by-products, without by-products, on raw, on cooked. If our dogs are thriving, we are doing right by them. If they aren't, then we have a responsibility to work to make them healthy. Isn't this the bottom line?

By the same token, if someone else's dog is thriving on something different, then they too are acting as responsible owners. It really is just that simple.

Much of the information on the internet is driven by profit and/or ego, and it can be quite difficult to tease out the threads of truth. Please remember that even the "worst" fed dogs in North America eat a better diet than many, many humans around the world, and our ability to even engage in this debate is a luxury we tend to take for granted.

I just have to say I always read your posts.......and believe them.

You obviously know what you are talking about......you are always respectful when you point out that someones thoughts might not really be based on science or common sense.

I for one sure appreciate your input and your willingness to share your expertise.

I just have to say I always read your posts.......and believe them.

You obviously know what you are talking about......you are always respectful when you point out that someones thoughts might not really be based on science or common sense.

I for one sure appreciate your input and your willingness to share your expertise.

Second that.... For those new to this site 3dognite is this sites food Guru...

anything posted by myself is simply my opinion and personal experience..

And I am very proud of Satch's mother and his breeder... not for any wins in the show ring.. It is for breeding dogs for the proper temperament , conformation and knowledge of what makes a wonderful family pet.

It is true that the genetics play a large role.. It is a fact the Cal Nat Lamb and Dr. Belfield's Mega-C Plus makes his coat shine, his stool perfect ,and so far very healthy.

As I have said before if my breeder had not suggested this diet I would have picked Innova Lg. breed pup, or Eagle Pack Holistic Lg. /Giant Pup. because of my own results feeding those two brands in the past.

footnote on Dr. Belfield.... On one page of his web site he says don't feed commercial food....

on the skin allergies
page...

Good Diets & Harmful Chemicals:
Feed only foods free of chemical preservatives. Dry Foods: Innova, Matrix, or California Natural, all manufactured by Natura Pet Products. Wet Food: Nature's Recipe (canned), at most pet and food stores.
Flea shampoos, flea dips, flea collars, and flea sprays containing insecticides must be eliminated during treatment.
Do not supplement your pet's diet with ascorbic acid as a source of vitamin C. This is an acid and can cause allergic skin reaction.

http://www.belfield.com/pet_health_art6.php

Then you might wonder Mega C Plus ?

Isn't that ascorbic acid? No it is sodium ascorbate...

And all the foods now have ascorbic acid, even Natura Products..

so as we can see contradictions take place within a companies web pages...

ie. the Calcium levels of Cal Nat Lamb being ok for lab pups when you call their customer service, but not ok if you read about Innova Lg. breed pup..

And as far as I've been told California Natural Lamb was his thing... But who knows .. for allergy dogs.

I truly believe all dogs are different. My dogs have been fed cheap foods, raw diets, high end kibble etc and in the end none of that matters...what matters is the food that they do well on. We feed Innova EVO and it is not a simple food so I can see it not working for a lot of dogs (many sources of protein) however for my two the food has been great. I also feed Merrick can food (BG) because they are all meat and I sometimes rotate with California Natural Lamb and Rice because I am not sure its good to stay on one food forever so I switch between the two.

The most important thing for me is feeding a food with a large amount of meat.

Nothing real to contribute to this thread, except for that I love Eagle Pack holistic. My older dog is back on it and she's doing great!

Hello, I'm brand new to this site and so appreciate everyone's input! I had to laugh at the post about keeping it simple... so true! I had a dog while putting myself through college and could only afford gravy train! Yikes! Believe it or not, she lived to be 18 years old and never had any problems. Go figure!
I actually joined this site because I had heard that Innova may help diminish the fatty cysts that our darling labs often get. I don't buy gravy train anymore, but am thinking about upgrading to a better food than the one I am currently using. Any thoughts, opionions? Thanks!!

Hello, I'm brand new to this site and so appreciate everyone's input! I had to laugh at the post about keeping it simple... so true! I had a dog while putting myself through college and could only afford gravy train! Yikes! Believe it or not, she lived to be 18 years old and never had any problems. Go figure!
I actually joined this site because I had heard that Innova may help diminish the fatty cysts that our darling labs often get. I don't buy gravy train anymore, but am thinking about upgrading to a better food than the one I am currently using. Any thoughts, opionions? Thanks!!


Welcome aboard.. I would probably suggest starting a new thread in the general health section.. you might get more hits then here...

Perhaps there is something the pesky search function can reveal as well.. I don't know much about nor have searched about your pupper's malady... hope you find something useful...