My vet and I have been talking about changing Scout's diet for various reasons. He sent me a PDF file by Hill's Science Diet that describes itself as "The Simple Truth About Pet Nutrition".

I wanted to share the claims with you here to see how you evaluate it. I am copying and pasting from the PDF, since unfortunately I don't see it online where we can access it on Hill's website.

CORN MYTHS
MYTH: Corn is just a filler.
FACT: Corn is NOT a filler. It is a superb source of nutrients such as:
• Essential fatty acids – for healthy skin and coat.
• Beta-carotene, Vitamin E, Lutein – nature’s antioxidants.
• Highly digestible carbohydrates – for energy.
• Quality proteins – for muscle and tissue growth.

MYTH: Corn is poorly digested.
FACT: Cooked corn is highly digestible. The protein in corn is more digestible than that of rice, wheat, barley or sorghum.*

MYTH: Corn causes food allergies in pets.
FACT: Corn is a very rare allergen in dogs and unreported in cats. In fact, beef, dairy, wheat, lamb, chicken, chicken egg and soy together comprise 93% of the food allergies in dogs.† Studies show that corn causes no more food allergies than any other grain.

By-Products as Ingredients
By-products are common ingredients in both human and pet foods. Vitamin E, gelatin, chicken stock and beef bouillon are all by-products. Lamb meal
is also a by-product, as it is a secondary product derived from lamb production for human use.
MYTH: Pet foods that contain ingredients listed as “by-products” are inferior.
FACT: Many by-products are excellent sources of nutrients for pets. With extremely rare exceptions, all pet foods contain by-products.

The Truth About Meat First
MYTH: “Meat-first” foods are better.
FACT: Healthy pets need nutrients and a complete balance of amino acids from both meat and non-meat sources. Meat is not the only source of protein available, either. Other ingredients, like corn, can provide it as well.

MYTH: Grain-free pet foods are better.
FACT: There is no nutritional foundation to support a grain-free diet, and foods that have grains are just as digestible as grain-free foods. The term ”grain-free” is misleading, as all grain-free foods contain carbohydrates from other sources, such as the sweet potato, which has more carbohydrates than corn.

MYTH: More protein is better.
FACT: Animals cannot store protein. Excess protein forces the kidneys to work harder when they have to convert it into waste, which is excreted in urine.

MYTH: Hill’s® Science Diet® foods are artificially preserved.
FACT: Science Diet dry pet foods are naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, which is a form of Vitamin E.
MYTH: Dogs are carnivores and need mostly meat.
FACT: Dogs are omnivores and need a balanced diet of proteins, carbohydrates and vitamins from a variety of sources including meats, vegetables and grains. This aids in controlling excess nutrients that may be a risk for long-term health.


There's also a section comparing Science Diet to other "Advanced Fitness Leading Brands" (Iams ProActive Health and Purina DogChow). Hmm.

What do you think? (I should say that they claim to be providing sources for some of their claims, but only one of them seems to be a peer-reviewed journal article.)

What a load of crap IMO

In my research dogs draw their energy from fat first - not carbs like humans.

"Quality" hi protein foods do not tax the kidneys (healthy or non healthy kidneys). It is poor quality protein such as corn that does (in a dog already having kidney issues). The amount of protein in corn doesn't come close to meat sources.

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/proteins-kidneys-senior-dogs/

While they may have changed some of their preservatives they did and still do use Ethoxyquin in some of their formulas.

I could go on but I don't think its necessary.

What sources back up Sciences Diet's claims? Hm...

Agree with Patty above.

What does science diet have to say about the use of BHA/T? I'd like to know what nutrients dogs absorb from them.

My husband won't even have corn in our house for us.

interesting that they feel the need to justify all of thier ingredients with no backup?
I am not saying dogs do not do well on thier food, I just find it an interesting marketing idea to even draw awareness to your potential weakness

interesting that they feel the need to justify all of thier ingredients with no backup?
I am not saying dogs do not do well on thier food, I just find it an interesting marketing idea to even draw awareness to your potential weakness


I was thinking the same thing. If I didn't already know corn was yucky, seeing this would make me want to learn more. It certainly gets the ball rolling for those who want to know more about food.

I was thinking the same thing. If I didn't already know corn was yucky, seeing this would make me want to learn more. It certainly gets the ball rolling for those who want to know more about food.

Tell me why corn is yucky again.......seriously.....

The only response I see is that it is a filler (just like wheat / rice / etc) and that it causes allergies (as does chicken).

Anything I am missing....

I agree with Patty... a load of crap!!

I have the same Hill's brochure. I laughed when I read it.

My husband won't even have corn in our house for us.

I love corn on the cob and fresh cream corn. Fried corn fritters with a little maple syrup on top...........yumm. I bet your little furry friend would love to tear into one of them too.;)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3414/3599420162_79f0623004.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pioneerwoman/3599420162/)

Tell me why corn is yucky again.......seriously.....

The only response I see is that it is a filler (just like wheat / rice / etc) and that it causes allergies (as does chicken).

Anything I am missing....
Not tryig to stoke the fire, but other than our dog's poop being a little soft they have done great on SD, I hear alot about corn being non digestable but I have never really seen a credible source for that statement.
and No I am not a Science Diet person as another post I just made I am looking at Diamond food as a change, but that is another post another subject.

This sounds like how the human food industry is always trying to brainwash people into thinking that corn is a wonder food, which is why they put it in practically everything we eat.....

Tell me why corn is yucky again.......seriously.....

The only response I see is that it is a filler (just like wheat / rice / etc) and that it causes allergies (as does chicken).

Anything I am missing....

We eat all/mostly organic and were not down with the whole "GMO" thing. For my dogs its a different story, I just don't feed them grains.

I love corn on the cob and fresh cream corn. Fried corn fritters with a little maple syrup on top...........yumm. I bet your little furry friend would love to tear into one of them too.;)

Thats great. Enjoy. My "little furry friends" are the most important thing on this earth to me. I wouldn't let them get into that greasy pile of styrofoam! That was more than a little rude.

Edit: You don't see me on here making fun of your choices, regardless of how wrong I may or may not think they are.

I came across a working definition of "protein digestibility" once which I thought was pretty helpful. Protein digestibility is the amount of protein absorbed into the body relative to the amount that was consumed.

I've seen charts for humans that show corn's "protein digestibility" in the 50s compared to many meats in the 70 and 80% range. Egg ranked at the top. Again, these percentages reference the amount of protein absorbed into the body relative to the amount that was consumed.

Assuming dogs have never been primarily plant-based eaters, it seems they might have to eat a lot more of a corn-based formula to benefit from the same amount of digested protein as a meat-based diet. Not saying corn is bad - just sounds less efficient in delivering the protein.

Whether corn is acceptable by every k-9 or not i can't answer that. It's obvious with the Purina food feeders that obviously their dogs do more then ok on corn.

I for one don't agree that corn should be the main source of protein in a food; that's what MEAT is supposed to take care of. If food is in the corn, and it's a good quality food with corn say ingredient number 4-8 i'm alright with that, but I won't be feeding it. Having corn as one of the first 3 ingredients, no....cause IMHO at that point the company's using it as a cheap source of good quality protein.

Dogs/cats were meant to eat meat as their protein, not corn.

I think this article has a lot of truth to it and will debunk what Hill's is trying to preach:

http://www.thedogplace.org/Articles/Cordingley/Dogs&Corn.0601.htm

Whether corn is acceptable by every k-9 or not i can't answer that. It's obvious with the Purina food feeders that obviously their dogs do more then ok on corn.

I for one don't agree that corn should be the main source of protein in a food; that's what MEAT is supposed to take care of. If food is in the corn, and it's a good quality food with corn say ingredient number 4-8 i'm alright with that, but I won't be feeding it. Having corn as one of the first 3 ingredients, no....cause IMHO at that point the company's using it as a cheap source of good quality protein.

Dogs/cats were meant to eat meat as their protein, not corn.

I agree.... these aren't corn chompin teeth! :cool:
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n304/irritableromance/DSCN2375.jpg

We eat all/mostly organic and were not down with the whole "GMO" thing. For my dogs its a different story, I just don't feed them grains.


Thats great. Enjoy. My "little furry friends" are the most important thing on this earth to me. I wouldn't let them get into that greasy pile of styrofoam! That was more than a little rude.

Edit: You don't see me on here making fun of your choices, regardless of how wrong I may or may not think they are.

Rude? You got to be kidding? Don't your know what a wink means? Geezzz.

All I know is my own experience. All my life I've had dogs and fed them whatever kind of food I thought looked good and was affordable. I never once ever read the ingredients. Those dogs have always had horrible shedding, some had runny poop all the time, they always smelled bad. I thought that's just part of having dogs.

Then I learned about how to read ingredients and how to pick a high quality food. Going back and looking at the ingredients of all the foods we used to feed our dogs made me ill. Corn, by-products, crap, crap, crap.

We now feed our dogs Natural Balance....single protein, single carb. No fillers, no crap. Great coats, great poops, healthy skin, lots of compliments on how nice their coats look, no stinky coats.

Coincidence that dogs that got fed corn and crap had problems, and dogs who get fed high quality dog food don't have any problems? I don't think so.

All I know is my own experience. All my life I've had dogs and fed them whatever kind of food I thought looked good and was affordable. I never once ever read the ingredients. Those dogs have always had horrible shedding, some had runny poop all the time, they always smelled bad. I thought that's just part of having dogs.

Then I learned about how to read ingredients and how to pick a high quality food. Going back and looking at the ingredients of all the foods we used to feed our dogs made me ill. Corn, by-products, crap, crap, crap.

We now feed our dogs Natural Balance....single protein, single carb. No fillers, no crap. Great coats, great poops, healthy skin, lots of compliments on how nice their coats look, no stinky coats.

Coincidence that dogs that got fed corn and crap had problems, and dogs who get fed high quality dog food don't have any problems? I don't think so.

:clap2::clap2::clap2:

All I know is my own experience. All my life I've had dogs and fed them whatever kind of food I thought looked good and was affordable. I never once ever read the ingredients. Those dogs have always had horrible shedding, some had runny poop all the time, they always smelled bad. I thought that's just part of having dogs.

Then I learned about how to read ingredients and how to pick a high quality food. Going back and looking at the ingredients of all the foods we used to feed our dogs made me ill. Corn, by-products, crap, crap, crap.

We now feed our dogs Natural Balance....single protein, single carb. No fillers, no crap. Great coats, great poops, healthy skin, lots of compliments on how nice their coats look, no stinky coats.

Coincidence that dogs that got fed corn and crap had problems, and dogs who get fed high quality dog food don't have any problems? I don't think so.

Are Natural Balance's single protein, single carb formulas "high quality"? "Quality" can mean many things. The limited ingredient diets from Natural Balance are low in protein and high in carbs, is that quality? Many of their limited ingredient diets have a carb as their number one ingredient but most will tell you dogs don't need carbohydrates, it's a filler you pick up on your lawn. 21% crude protein is adequate and that's total protein, not digestible protein and this 21% includes protein from "useless" carbohydrates. :eek:

Some of the ingredients that people are calling crap are only crap if your dog can't eat them. You found a formula that has very few ingredients that all of your dogs seem to tolerate, I don't think that proves it's "high quality".

Pet food makers have long misled customers claiming grains had nutritional value to the canine....Corn was introduced to the dog diet for cost effectiveness ....While whole grain corn cooked will provide oils, some protein, most is indigestible and eliminated in larger volume of stool....So some corn in dog food is OK...One made up of large amounts is just there for filler...Are by-products useful for the dog..Yes...but are large amounts fed everyday ? There lies the problem....many contain chemicals from processing and rendering....the organ meats can contain large amounts of toxins from the host animal being fed poor quality feed....

The Vet pushing SD products certainly has not much knowledge of the Pet Food industry....there are far superior diets sold today...I remember a time when SD hit the market, before being sold to Colgate Palmolive it was a wonderful fresh food and novel protein food using Soy....Many does did great on it..now soy is considered a no no for dogs...

The best explanation for the layperson on a dogs digestive system has been put out by Champion Pet...It is a text book type paper based on work done by a leader in understanding the dogs digestion...Kronfeld, DS Ph.D...One of the first to recognize we were feeding dogs inappropriately..Basically saying they need more meat to thrive.

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/documents/ORIJEN_White_paper.pdf

If you are a Pet Food Maker...the hard part is making a healthy diet in kibble form....that is one large cause of illness...the moisture of the original food has been removed...and if the dog does not drink enough water the kidneys are hurt...and if a dog drinks too much water they push a diet too fast and the dogs stool is loose...Foods in their natural state provide just the right amount....that is why so many Vets see huge health improvements in sickly dogs that start a RAW diet...

Whole Dog Journal did a good article on feeding....In general it was mentioned that
1. RAW
2. Home cooking
3. grain free kibble
4. kibble

In that order was when best results in dogs health is observed...Most of us feed Kibble, so it is important to find the one that works best..but is also of high quality in ingredients....

Corn was introduced to the dog diet for cost effectiveness ....While whole grain corn cooked will provide oils, some protein, most is indigestible and eliminated in larger volume of stool....So some corn in dog food is OK...One made up of large amounts is just there for filler...Are by-products useful for the dog..Yes...but are large amounts fed everyday ? There lies the problem

While I don't always agree with you, the above makes sense. That is what I have thought concerning corn and by products. Some OK, but don't go too heavy with them.

Your signature pics are very nice, btw.:tup: See.......I'm not all bad.

....So some corn in dog food is OK...One made up of large amounts is just there for filler...

So CN having over 50% rice is not a large amount? it's not just filler? it's ok?




Whole Dog Journal did a good article on feeding....In general it was mentioned that
1. RAW
2. Home cooking
3. grain free kibble
4. kibble

In that order was when best results in dogs health is observed...


I didn't read the article. What values determined the "best results"? (for instance, blood work or laboratory tests, longevity studies...) ?

So CN having over 50% rice is not a large amount? it's not just filler? it's ok?





I didn't read the article. What values determined the "best results"? (for instance, blood work or laboratory tests, longevity studies...) ?

Satch's breeder fed Satch this diet as does she to all her dogs... I was a Eagle Pack feeder before this pup...Rice and Lamb I would never have thought would give great results....but I have been around Home cooked as well as RAW fed dogs...Home cooking and RAW are just common sense..The food is less processed..Giving better health.... Dogs are not a grain eater...they don't have the proper teeth or digestive system....It's a hard sell for people to spend more $$ on better diets....but in reality they wind up costing less fed by # of cups needed and by less Vet Visits....Satch also gets plenty of EVO RF mixed in...as well as EVO treats..He's a muscular pup...

About testing Natura has a testing site called the Belfield CTR....and they have done long term studies on Grain Free EVO

Nutritionists at Natura Pet Products, in concert with other leading nutritionists in the pet food industry, have questioned the conventional wisdom of providing compounds which aren't inherently key providers of essential nutrients. Traditionally grains have been a method used to dilute the nutrient density to more closely align with the minimum requirements. For conventional thinkers this is still a good strategy today. In essence, EVO challenges the conventional thought of adding non-essential nutrients by removing the grain from the canine diet entirely.

There have been a number of myths promulgated regarding links between protein and kidney failure, aging, and other health related issues. Repeated research studies have simply not been able to substantiate these myths. Quite the opposite has occurred. Much of this work has led us to a better understanding of the role that high quality proteins have on health, disease prevention, and even recovery.

In long-term feeding studies, EVO has performed extremely well and no adverse conditions have been detected. Here are some of the unique attributes of Innova EVO dog food:
 EVO has been proven to provide 100% complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages of the dog
 99.6% of the protein in EVO derived from chicken, turkey, eggs and fish
 EVO has the highest protein content of any meat based dry dog food in the market (42%)
 EVO is very low in total carbohydrates (14% of calories) and contains absolutely NO grain
 Fruits, vegetables, herbs, probiotics, and functional fiber round out EVO’s holistic formulation
 EVO is proven to be super palatable, highly digestible, and results in small, consistent stools
 Because the EVO formula mimics a typical raw diet recipe, many raw feeders have found it to be a convenient way to supplement raw diets or as a substitute when it just isn’t possible to prepare a raw meal

So for myself...and the pup...I think a little modern and my old age makes me conventional...

When you look at commercial pet foods...a 75 year history doesn't change the idea that dogs are made to eat meat or the food humans eat as scraps...Humans don't load up on just corn...We try to eat within the food pyramid for optimal health...

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/11_confused.gif (http://javascript<b></b>: void(0);) That answers my questions?

Dogs are not a grain eater...they don't have the proper teeth
How can dogs survive eating a dry kibble that resembles grain (shape, size, hardness etc.) if they don't have the proper teeth?

I have been debating this food issue with myself for a while now. I have read many articles and posts and still can't come to any decision and I know it is a personal choice. I do feed Hills Science Diet R/D for weight loss and have for a few years. I asked my Vet the last time I was there about switching to the EVO. The vet disagreed and stated that everything the dog needs is in that food and the higher protine isn't the best thing for the dog. He suggested the M/D I think thats for weight maintenance if I wanted to switch of the high fiber. Information overload!You would think the vet would know what was best?IMHO

I have been debating this food issue with myself for a while now. I have read many articles and posts and still can't come to any decision and I know it is a personal choice. I do feed Hills Science Diet R/D for weight loss and have for a few years. I asked my Vet the last time I was there about switching to the EVO. The vet disagreed and stated that everything the dog needs is in that food and the higher protine isn't the best thing for the dog. He suggested the M/D I think thats for weight maintenance if I wanted to switch of the high fiber. Information overload!You would think the vet would know what was best?IMHO

If you have been feeding it for years, have you had weight loss results? One of my personal favorite doggy diet foods is wellness core RF, because of the high fiber, low carb. Still some carbs, but like 9% (I think, maybe 12 I forget) Sorry, just had to make the suggestion so maybe you can see some results.

You would think the vet knows best about food, but its not true a *lot* of the time. Im not of the school that thinks all vets are not educated in nutrition, but I do think a significant number of them are not as updated as they could be as far as food goes.

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/11_confused.gif (http://javascript<b></b>: void(0);) That answers my questions?


How can dogs survive eating a dry kibble that resembles grain (shape, size, hardness etc.) if they don't have the proper teeth?

I'll throw that right back.. unless the grain is ground up and cooked how would a dog be able to digest corn ? The dogs teeth are made for ripping and crushing bone...The teeth do not resemble a cows...or does the digestive tract...The dog is a domesticated wolf... No ?

I have been debating this food issue with myself for a while now. I have read many articles and posts and still can't come to any decision and I know it is a personal choice. I do feed Hills Science Diet R/D for weight loss and have for a few years. I asked my Vet the last time I was there about switching to the EVO. The vet disagreed and stated that everything the dog needs is in that food and the higher protine isn't the best thing for the dog. He suggested the M/D I think thats for weight maintenance if I wanted to switch of the high fiber. Information overload!You would think the vet would know what was best?IMHO

Just curious, does your vet sell Science Diet dog food? I knew a few years ago, Hill's who makes Science Diet was selling a lot of its dog food at vet's offices.

...The dog is a domesticated wolf... No ?

Here's a good link that attests that dogs are domesticated wolves and carnivores:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog

Pete, I too often think the carbohydrate level in CN adult is quite high - it's about 48%. I guess I didn't really understand your response when Doppler asked it. It's still a food Charlie has done the best on, but the high carb level does bother me.

Nancy

Here's a good link that attests that dogs are domesticated wolves and carnivores:



Not to nitpick but dogs are not domesticated wolves. They have evolved from wolves but are a separate species. Yes, they share a lot of the same mitocondrial DNA but so do chimps and humans - different species with a common ancester.

Pete, I too often think the carbohydrate level in CN adult is quite high - it's about 48%. I guess I didn't really understand your response when Doppler asked it. It's still a food Charlie has done the best on, but the high carb level does bother me.

Nancy
Cal Nat Lamb is the last food to worry about...it is most likely the safest food made because of the sourcing...

Whether too many carbs are in the food...It's been almost 20 years now and the formula has never changed significantly....I believe the only one was adding Rosemary as an antioxidant...

Consider it a bland diet...

I've added EVO RF for almost a year now at 20 % with great results..Satch is worked for over two hours everyday...as I get him ready for climbing mountains and hunting..

Couch potato dogs do well on the Adult Lamb...If Cancer is the worry....if it is not diagnosed I've not been able to find any studies that say Rice is the cause...

Not to nitpick but dogs are not domesticated wolves. They have evolved from wolves but are a separate species. Yes, they share a lot of the same mitocondrial DNA but so do chimps and humans - different species with a common ancester.

No different than man being domesticated caveman....it is just a matter on how far back do you want to go...We have evidence caveman existed through archaeological discoveries...

It is no doubt that wolves who were not wary of man started to hang around dumps and villages..looking for easy meals...and as they bred the natural defense against trusting man lessoned...and so it began...but you cannot say a dog looks like a chimp or a human ..He resembles the wolf....just as modern man resembles the caveman...

Nancy....if you're worried about the carb level in the adult version, is the puppy version an option for you??

I feed Rivers the puppy version which contains 38%, some 10-11% less then the adult version....it may help rest your mind. Puppy version is all life stages too.

Woofie, we have one store that carries the puppy version and sometimes their bags are not as fresh as I'd like them to be. They told me it's not a big seller and since many of the other stores around here that carry the adult CN don't carry the puppy CN I guess it's true. I don't want to order online either because I always get screwed with expiration dates. Of course, I am pretty anal about having fresh bags. I do add some canned 95% meat as a topper for more protein, but it doesn't lower the carbs.

Nancy

No different than man being domesticated caveman


It depends on which species of "caveman" you are talking about. There were many different ones but only homo sapiens exists today. Australopithicus robustus? Australopithicus Africanus? Homo Habilus? Homo Erectus? All gone today. Of course, the Geico caveman is still around...:)


but you cannot say a dog looks like a chimp or a human

That's not what I was implying. I was bringing a comparison of two groups of modern day species which share a large amount of DNA but are still separate species.

Homo Erectus? :)



No so sure they're all gone? Ever been to San Francisco?:eek:

No so sure there all gone? Ever been to San Francisco?:eek:

ROTFLMAO!

ETA: Gotta run that one by some gay friends of mine. They'll love that!

I agree with Patty. Good post

You know what is the saddest thing about this. We go to vets to get sound advice but all we get when it comes to food is a marketing pitch. I got so mad at my vet about a month ago. Sci. Di. has a great marketing plan to get vets to push it but it is really a low quality food.

Woofie, we have one store that carries the puppy version and sometimes their bags are not as fresh as I'd like them to be. They told me it's not a big seller and since many of the other stores around here that carry the adult CN don't carry the puppy CN I guess it's true. I don't want to order online either because I always get screwed with expiration dates. Of course, I am pretty anal about having fresh bags. I do add some canned 95% meat as a topper for more protein, but it doesn't lower the carbs.

Nancy

Gotcha....I had to plead pretty much for 2 local stores to start carrying the puppy version...it took a while but they finally realized if they actually carried it as a staple more people would buy it.

If they are out for some reason, I generally get my 3rd real tiny store to order it for me, she doesn't normally stock it but is more then willing to get it for me as I'm a regular in their little tiny town and do locates for all the homeowners in the area.

I too like fresh bags, I'm very picky about that :rolleyes:

You know... I hate to admit this, but I have never looked at the date on the bag before buying it. :emb: I am going to have to start though!

I always buy from the top... I figure they stack the new bags on top of the old bags.

Pete, I too often think the carbohydrate level in CN adult is quite high - it's about 48%. I guess I didn't really understand your response when Doppler asked it. It's still a food Charlie has done the best on, but the high carb level does bother me.

Nancy
What is supposed to be the appropriate carb level?

You know... I hate to admit this, but I have never looked at the date on the bag before buying it. :emb: I am going to have to start though!

I always buy from the top... I figure they stack the new bags on top of the old bags.

Nope they call it rotation. All stores, even supermarkets are suppose to follow the rotation rule. New in back, old in front.

I buy Innova from a feed store where it moves pretty fast, but still buy the bag on the bottom of the stack.
And I put all the other bags back very neatly :D.

Usually though they are delivered in lots, in other words, they get a skid full of however they order them, and all those bags usually have the exp. date. Most of the time, Innova dry kibble bags are 10 to 14 months out.

I asked my Vet the last time I was there about switching to the EVO. The vet disagreed and stated that everything the dog needs is in that food and the higher protine isn't the best thing for the dog. He suggested the M/D I think thats for weight maintenance if I wanted to switch of the high fiber. Information overload!You would think the vet would know what was best?IMHO

I look at it this way: not everyone who is an "expert" is an "expert" on everything related to that topic, so it's always good to check multiple sources. Doctors, for instance, know a lot about health and treating illness, but if I had a nutritional question, I'd consider consulting a nutritionist as well who had gotten special, focused, deep training in nutrition. Doctors can sometimes be focused on "The numbers say X so you should take Y pill" instead of considering other options, like adjusting your diet. (I have a family member who was basically told to go on meds for adult-onset diabetes instead of trying to first cope through a better diet and weight loss.) People with other training may understand other options.

Also, just because someone has gotten a doctorate in medicine does NOT mean that the person is a GOOD doctor.

I think the same is true with vets. Vets definitely know a lot, but they don't always get deep training in nutrition, AND there are many, many individual differences in their knowledge and skill.

The dog is a domesticated wolf... No ?

No.

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog

According to the above, which by the way is good reading, the dog IS a domesticated wolf...the DNA of a dog is the same as a wolf..

Bottom line, even a high quality expensive food can be crap depending on the dog that is eating it. Corndog did great on Chicken Soup but he was overweight so I switched him to the Chicken Soup Light and he is crapping it all out....I am talking huge craps. So just because a food is touted to be higher quality it might not work for your dog. I personally choose not to feed Science Diet but if my options were limited and my dog did well on it then I would stick with it. You could certainly do a lot worse.

I'll throw that right back.. unless the grain is ground up and cooked how would a dog be able to digest corn ? The dogs teeth are made for ripping and crushing bone...The teeth do not resemble a cows...or does the digestive tract...The dog is a domesticated wolf... No ?

I can personally attest to a dog's stomach not being able to digest either corn or rice. My wife gave my dog a handful of whole kernal corn about 1 month ago. About 1-3 days later, I noticed something different upon exit, so needed a little bit closer look. It was corn. Then about two weeks ago, we had some left over chicken and rice from our meal, so we mixed it up and gave him some with his regular food. Again, 1-3 days later, exit looked a little off, so I got closer. There were those darn whole kernals of rice........We fed him this diet two days in a row (kibble and chicken/rice), so it went on for 2 days.....

Bottom line, even a high quality expensive food can be crap depending on the dog that is eating it. Corndog did great on Chicken Soup but he was overweight so I switched him to the Chicken Soup Light and he is crapping it all out....I am talking huge craps. So just because a food is touted to be higher quality it might not work for your dog. I personally choose not to feed Science Diet but if my options were limited and my dog did well on it then I would stick with it. You could certainly do a lot worse.

Shonda, beware; good sense and a well-articulated argument have no place in this debate! ;)

Kelly ::who believes Shonda put a tremendously sensible cap on the food/quality discussion::

Shonda, beware; good sense and a well-articulated argument have no place in this debate! ;)


My bad. ;)