I have a 9mth old m/blk lab Gunner that has very bad rear hips, he is a pure breed and I got him from a very good breeder just one of those fluke things. Anyways he was guaranteed for his hips. So now have another 11 week old pup along with Gunner,along with a 1yr old beagle. I wasnt able to afford surgery for Gunner because both hips are bad (the left one being the worse) and I dont have thousands of dollars to put into a dog.
He has lived a great life and very,very active up untill the hip problem,now I keep him on a limited workout for the sake of him being in pain at the end of the day.
He is well trained and was trained for waterfowl hunting, vrey obedient and well mannered, he is very calm and good with pets and kids.
The question I have is if anyone knows anybody that would be interested in Gunner, he would be a great pet and companion for a while for someone, I dont knoow how long he would be able to get around with out being in to much pain, but to me some time is better then no time in his case. Maybe there is someone out there that would fall in love with him and could possible afford hip surgery, I dont know I just thought I would post here and see.
I live in Southeastern, Mi just to let you know Thanks

Have you talked to local lab rescues? Is there any vetinary school locally who could donate their services to you and Gunner or at least do the surgery at a lower cost? Do you have a picture of him that you can post?

I am so sorry to hear about your Gunner....it sounds like he would really benefit from having the surgery and he is so young...have you considered getting a second opinion from another Vet? I also think that many Vets may be willing to work with you and perhaps set up a payment plan for you....also have you contacted the Breeder? We would love to see a picture of Gunner if you can...

You should go to MSU...

But I have to say this....why would you be getting another dog when Gunner is your responsibility? Just because he has bad hips. That is not fair to him. Dogs are a lifetime investment.

Definitely see if the breeder is willing to do anything.

What about seeing about getting pet insurance. We are thinking about it for Aowyn because of her allergy issues. A friend of ours got it for their dog and the insurance covers anything over 90 dollars.

I'm sorry that Gunner is having these health problems. I do not understand your post, however. You make it sound like Gunner is old when you say he has lived a great life, but he is only 9 months old. That's not living a great life; that's just starting what could be a great life!

Why do you have another puppy when you already have a beagle and Gunner? Is that how the breeder "made good" on the guarantee? Did the breeder give you another puppy because Gunner's hips are bad? Does this puppy have the same parents as Gunner? What is the plan if the pup has the same problems?

How do you know Gunner's hips are a "fluke"? Perhaps the breeder did not care one iota and just assumed that if the hips were bad, loving owners would not want to return the dog and would be happy with just being given another. What exactly does the guarantee say? It seems possible that the breeder has more obligation to help you with Gunner than is being offered.

I agree that a second or more opinions could be a great idea. What can be done to improve Gunner's quality of life right now? Orthopedics is a specialty in dogs, just as it is in humans. I think the breeder and the guarantee should be helping you afford an evaluation by a specialist.

Gunner sounds like an amazing dog. To be so well trained at 9 months is awesome! That says something about Gunner and something about the person who did the training (you perhaps??). It sure sounds like you need to keep Gunner!

Susan

I hope that Gunner gets to stay with you. I kow it will costs thousands ot fix his hips, but maybe there is a place that will do it at a discount for you. It is worth checking into. What is going to happen if the next puppy runs into trouble? I agree with Alex about checking into the pet insurance. ANimals don't come with gurantees and you can't keep getting rid of them when soemthing pops up inexpectedly. It is not fair to you or the dog. I hope that you are able to work it out. Hoping fo the best for all concerned.

Just my opinion but if you can afford the cost of the new pup with all of the vet bills that go along with it and the food and toys etc...why cant you find a vet that takes a payment plan instead for the surgery? Most vets care about the animals they treat and if they see the situation may have no problem initiating some type of payment plan for you. ask every vet within a certain radius. You never know till you try.
Good luck and hopefully this poor pup will get the care he needs.

Just my opinion but if you can afford the cost of the new pup with all of the vet bills that go along with it and the food and toys etc...why cant you find a vet that takes a payment plan instead for the surgery? Most vets care about the animals they treat and if they see the situation may have no problem initiating some type of payment plan for you. ask every vet within a certain radius. You never know till you try.
Good luck and hopefully this poor pup will get the care he needs.
Very good suggestion. My vet takes payments plans.

i hope your other 2 dogs stay healthy-what will u do?

Your pup is a life time commitment that you took on, and he deserves your loyalty. He does not deserve to be passed on to another owner.

I agree with the statement made by a board member, that there are payment plans that can be worked out with a vet, for surgery that is needed and that this dog deserves.

I also agree with another member who wrote in answer to one of your previous posts, that a pup should not be over exercised before one year of age, which includes no jumping and excessive running.The growing bones of the pup, and the joints and ligaments, can be injured due to jumping and excessive running.

In my breeder's contract for our yellow lab pup, purchased at 8 weeks, it states that as part of the agreement I will :
"exercise the dog regularly in a careful and safe manner. The dog will not be jogged, biked, or submitted to excessive jumping before one year of age. The dog will not be encouraged to climb down the stairs before the age of six months."


The breeder also states in her contract that she reserves the right to discuss diagnosis/treatment of the hereditary hip disease with the vet prior to surgery. She also reserves the right to acquire a second opinion from a vet of her choosing at her expense.

The contract also states that if the dog is diagnosed with a hereditary problem that requires surgery to maintain the dog's quality of life, the price of the surgery will be refunded to a maximum of three quarters of the original purchase price of the dog, after the breeder has received the veterinary receipt for surgery.

If diagnosis of a hereditary debilitating eye, hip, or elbow problem requires euthanization, a replacement pup will be made available. The breeder retains the right to speak to the veterinarian prior to euthanasia, and must receive the original diagnosis documents from the vet before replacement.

The breeder retains first right of refusal if the purchaser chooses not to continue ownership of the dog.

My recommendation to you is to get the surgery for your pup, no matter the cost, and arrange payment plans with your vet.
Someone suggested signing up for a pet insurance plan, but you will not be covered for the cost of hip surgery, due to the fact that the pup has already been diagnosed with hip dysplasia (a pre-existing condition).

Get a second opinion if you wish, from a vet, and also check out vet schools as maybe you can get surgery at a discount.

-Marion

If your breeder was actually a good breeder then she would not want the dog to EVER be put down or given to another owner! My breeder has first right to our dog if we ever decide to give him away. (which we never will). When you got Gunner you were agreeing to care for him for life...through good and bad. Why wouldn't the breeder give you money toward the surgery instead of another puppy that you obviously cannot afford? Most breeders say that if your dog ends up with a hereditary problem they will pay toward a surgery or give a replacement pup if the dog dies....sounds to me like your breeder is in it for the money, and not for the love of the dogs. That being said...I hope that Gunner finds an excellent home with the love he needs.

We also do not have thousands of dollars, but we do have pet insurance ( In case Hudson ever has problems). Our last dog, a rottweiler, had hip displasia and we sold everything we could to pay for her surgery, and she lived happily with us for 11 years. During this time our breeder said that whenever we want another puppy we could have one, but obviously we were struggling to afford Teva's surgery/medical bills so we never did....a dog should not be replaced. I am a student...and I found ways to get my dog that surgery.

I second Tracey's statements.

Do the right thing for your pup and get the surgery.When you take on a pet, you must be prepared to stick by the animal, for "better or worse". A dog is a faithful companion,more so than humans, and he deserves a commitment from you to stick by him, and get him the surgery so he can enjoy life.

-Marion

No breeder that I have ever met and/or known has ever given money to assist w/ medical needs after a puppy is purchased, even for something such as H.D. , most will replace the puppy with one from a future litter as this breeder has apparently done.

Unfortunately, many, many, many vets do not offer payment plans. At this pups age surgery doesn't even seem like it would be an option being as he is still growing. Just because Skeeter can not afford this sort of surgery to me doesn't mean he/she should never own a pet. Lord knows that if something were to happen to one of my dogs seriously right now, there is no way in hell I'd be able to afford any form of expensive treatment.

I know a lot of vetinary hospitals offer discounted and possibly payment plans on that discounted program. We have NC State vetinary school which is where we were referred for Jets hips if he ever needs surgery.

As far as the insurance it's a no go. Jet had pet insurance from the day we got him at 8 weeks, at about 6 months his hips were already terrible, we contacted the insurance company and they said because it was a pre-existing health problem it was too bad, even though we had the insurance before it was DX'd they just won't cover it no matter what. But find a vet who will give you a payment plan, please don't dump off your pup to what will end up being a shelter where he will sit and sit and never find a home because the shelters are packed with labs as is :(

Gunnergirl,
Thanks for the support..

Lets see where do I start....for starters its pretty funny when you post on this board to see if there is a possabilty that there is some one out there that would or could spend the money on the surgery for Gunner so he could live a descent life as a pet, and all you get back is people trying to shoot you down because of this situation, like Iam a complete IDIOT when it comes to dogs or something. But thats fine you all can KISS MY YOU KNOW WHAT!!
I dont have my dogs just for cute little pets that sit in the house all day for 10 hrs wait for me to come, then when I do, they sit on the couch with me all night long while we both get fat. My dogs are working dogs I hunt over my beagle all the time, Gunner is/was bought for the samething, I duck hunt 4-5 days aweek, on top of upland hunting so he was not just bought to be my pet he was bought with the intent to work like they are supposed too they both sleep outside year round in there dog house's ( very inhuman I know, BUT THEY ARE DOGS).
Please let me respond to some of the great question's:

As for the 2nd opinion: I dont need a 2nd opinion for him to tell me how bad it is, when the dogs Left hip is only in the socket by about 40%, the right is
better but its out of the socket by about 30%. The X-rays speak for them self.
"But I have to say this....why would you be getting another dog when Gunner is your But I have to say this....why would you be getting another dog when Gunner is your responsibility?
The breeders contract was to give me a new pup or get my money back I took the pup, could I have taken the money yes and put towards the surgery yes well let me just tell you $550.00 is a small dent into 2 full hip replacements which he will need ( my vet quoted me 6500.00) not going to put that into a dog!!!! SORRY ......even if I did have the money or could afford to put it on a easy payment plan I still wouldnt (please forgive me if I have affended someone that cant understand why I wouldnt)

How do you know Gunner's hips are a "fluke"? Perhaps the breeder did not care one iota and just assumed that if the hips were bad, loving owners would not want to return the dog and would be happy with just being given another. What exactly does the guarantee say? It seems possible that the breeder has more obligation to help you with Gunner than is being offered.
I have researched all of the dogs in Gunners Pedigree online, he comes from a very long line of Field Champions and Hunt Test Champions on both sides the Sir and the Bitch. I spoke with other people that have Gotten pups form the breeder prior to buying Gunner. The breeder is very good guy and down to earth and he takes has very much pride in his dog,the pups and the standars at which he breeds by.
The Bottom line is Gunners Hips are so bad at 9 mths that at the end of the day the dog can not hardly get up, lots of times I must help him. My vet told me that he has seen worse but not to many.

So for all of you people here that think I am just trying to get rid of a dog because I dont want or dont want to deal with him you can all KISS MY A$$. because You have know Idea what its like to have a dog, Gunner which is my pet, my hunting partner for one year, my companion, my Beagles best friends, now to the point that he cant play or retrieve, he cant run with Ottis or nothing because he is in so much pain that he just cant do it... Yeah its real fun let me tell you,

P.S. Shooter is not from the same parents as Gunner.

$6500?? I would find a new vet and look for other prices...even if you have to travel out of your state. Our Rottie had hip displasia in both hips and the vet said it was the worst he had seen...it cost us $2000, and that is Canadian!! Teva also could not get up off the floor and moaned all day until we got the surgery, after this she went back to normal (not overnight obviously). This happened to her at close to a year old when we found out and got the surgery. She lived a happy, not as active, but still active life until she was 11.

[QUOTE=Gunnergirl]No breeder that I have ever met and/or known has ever given money to assist w/ medical needs after a puppy is purchased, even for something such as H.D. , most will replace the puppy with one from a future litter as this breeder has apparently done.
[QUOTE]

Our breeder gave us the price of the puppy (refund) and we used it toward our dogs hip surgery. It was $1000 for our rotti so it covered half of our medical expenses. Sorry I should have clarified what I meant.

Sorry guys. I can no longer play nice with a person who tells me to kiss his booty.

Skeeter--I don't give two sh!ts if you can't afford the replacement. You DID get Gunner for better or worse and he deserves better than to be dumped because you supposedly hunt all of the time (because there is a ton of places to hunt in southgate :roll2:). Most of us do also work with our dogs too....and they live in the house, aren't fat and still WORK.

Don't come here belly aching about your dog needing a great home when you aren't even willing to provide that for him when he NEEDS you the most.

Don't tell me to kiss your butt. I have heard this story over and over again from the Michigan hunters and if you got a dysplastic pup chances are your breeder is just another BYBer who has NO business breeding in the first place. FC and hunt champions? How far back in the pedigree do you have to go to find them? If there are at least three champions in the first 3 generations, that pedigree ain't worth the price of the paper it's printed on.

Shame on you.

Dani - You're my idol!!!

Skeeter - go and read your first post with objectivity and you'll see that you sound like a total butt h@le! Your communication skills leave a lot to be desired!!!!

OK, now what are you going to do with pup? Here's a 9 month old pup that is living in pain, right? Right, wrong or indifferent, this pup should be given a chance to live a normal life. I will see what my vet will charge. How far are you from Indianapolis? Can you bring Gunner inside so that he will have some pain relief? Is he on Rimadyl or Dermaxx?

DANI,

I would respond but it seems to me you are alot smarter and know a ton more then myself since you have heard this over and over and over again.

("because there is a ton of places to hunt in southgate")


next time you look at a map you will be able to see that Im about 20-25 mins from LAKE ERIE which is about the best Duck hunting in SE MICH.....Thats weird you didnt know that but you know everything else, about me, Gunner, and our situation dont you!!!!!!! OH YA you dont, you just think you do.......

Linda if you are willing to take him in to LOLIN, I will help with transporting him to you. Since I live in MI I would be more than willing to go pick him up.

As you all know, we normally do not allow people to post in this forum when trying to rehome their own personal dog/pup however normally it is someone that pops onto the board with the sole intention of rehoming their pet. Skeeter I believe has been a member for long enough to post something of this nature if need be.

Also, as many on the board will remember, I normally would be the one to jump all over someone for getting rid of a dog/pup for various reasons, esp. w/ my current and past involvement w/ rescue. This situation as I see it though is a bit different and I can relate to it somewhat.

Over the summer if you all recall, I had to have a GSD puppy euthanized that I had purchased. At first my vet thought it was possibly just epileptic seizures that my boy was having. Unfortunately, this did not turn out to be the case BUT if it had turned out to be the case, I would have rehomed him to a family looking for a 'pet' because he would not have been able to work as I needed him to and I would have taken a replacement from his breeder. If you buy a pup soley for working purposes such as hunting, protection work, service, etc., if the dog doesn't do what it was intended and purchased for-I see no problem w/ returning it to the breeder OR rehoming it to a more suitable home if possible. I know that it is a concept that is difficult for many to grasp and it took me YEARS to realize and grasp on to but it is what it is. If either of my 2 pups now come up w/ hip issues or decide they don't want to work, they will go back to the breeder or be rehomed. They are not pets as Jax, Gunner and Oscar are. I know it sounds horrible but it is what it is.

Editing to add in that my 2 pups are also outside kennel dogs whereas my other 3 are inside... :)

Guys I think we need to move past all of this and focus on helping Gunner. That is our primary focus; the puppy.

AMEN Alex, as I asked above Skeeter, please address my questions as I am trying to help.

My dog had HD surgery on one leg for under $300. The Vet was just out of school and very confident in his ability to help my dog. I spoke with him about my financial situation - a college student with little/no $ and he helped me out in a big way. Dozer is now happy and healthy and you can hardly tell that he ever had a problem. His other hip is not perfect, but good enough for him to live comfortably with medication on the cold days.

IF he does "rehome" this dog, I'm sure the lab board can find a way to help the dog out.

Yes, a friend of mine just had his 9 month old lab operated on for $300 also. I am certain I could get the surgery for the same for Gunner IF Skeeter is truly interested in helping Gunner.

I'd just like to add that my pup is a "pet" as you put it and is certainly not "fat" and just because he's not a "hunter" does not mean he's not well taken care of and exercised and provided stimulation, nor does it mean he's left at home for 10 hrs at a time. I understand you're upset but understand that your generalizations are very hurtful to people who were offering opinions and helpful options whether you choose to take them or not.

Oh and for the record i'm a very proud parent of my "cute little pet"

Skeeter, I am well aware of where Southgate is.

And while Gunner does need help, I don't feel like you have done everything to keep YOUR companion with you.

I think its sad for Gunner that his owner can't even put him on supplements to ease his pain. If Alex and Linda help you, great. But I thinik it's important that you get off your couch and help yourself as well.

Skeeter....I am willing to make a donation toward helping Gunner...let's try to think of the puppy here...he is so young to be having so many problems and he deserves to live out a normal life that is pain free...if LOLIN takes him in...I am on LOLIN's sponsor list and I will be more than happy to help your puppy.
Lily

This is the last I am going to say about this...and I'd PM people personally if I could, but I can't.

Rescue SHOULD be about the dog. The problem with this is that in Michigan, the BYBers are producing ALOT of dogs like skeeter's. I have gotten at least 15 calls this year about dysplastic dogs, dogs with shot elbow's...etc. from hunting owners that don't want to pay for the cost of helping their companions. And since they are useless, want to get rid of the dog and move on, but really haven't looked into long term options for keeping the dog.

This dog has a home. Why would you put this case above a dog dying in a shelter? Especially when skeeter is close to some really great places that will do surgeries for low cost, Huron Valley, Detroit Humane Society, MSU vet school, Cleveland State vet school.....hell, even Indy. Mind you, in the Detroit Metro area the vets will PROBABLY charge alot...but not $6,500.

And since board rules don't normally allow folks to come here and personally rehome their dogs, why is skeeter been an exception here? I just don't see how diverting time and and funds to a dog that already has a home is helping here.

JMHO.

I am confused, why does a dog have to be either a pet or a working dog, don' they alldeserve health, love and companionship regardless of if the main reason is for working/hunting. I have read several posts from folks who take their dogs hunting on a regular basis and still provide the love, care and companionship that labs thrive on. How do you separate who gets the love and attention from those who are JUST working dogs?

Carol,

I guess it really depends on what you are getting the animal for. For me Aowyn was a companion that my wife got me and I will enventually take her hunting, maybe next year. If she was awful and gun shy, she isn't, then I wouldn't get rid of her because she is more than just a hunting dog.

But like Gunnergirl said, you have to remember that some folks get dogs, and other animals, for a specific job. In Skeeter's case its to hunt, in Gunnergirl's case to protect, and for disabled folks to help them. In each of these cases if a dog doesn't do what it was adopted for then you try to find it a good home. One that can provide the dog love and happiness.

To me Skeeter is doing that. He could have easily dropped Gunner off at a shelter and walked away from him. The shelter would have probably euthanized Gunner if his hips are as bad as they sound. Instead he is trying to give Gunner a life in which he can't, and Skeeter is asking for us to help him. Which I have offered to do. I have sent him PMs and will help in getting Gunner to Linda.

I think we, people of this forum, need to understand that some people don't get a dog for the same reason that you and I do. Not everyone has the same opinion as you. I know I don't agree with everyone's point of view, and that is why I don't speak up on many of the controversial threads. I think I share many of the same values as most of you, at least with animals, but to often do those controversial threads turn ugly, only alienating people that come here looking for help.

To me this board is for LABS that own people that want/need help with anything.

Carol,

I guess it really depends on what you are getting the animal for. For me Aowyn was a companion that my wife got me and I will enventually take her hunting, maybe next year. If she was awful and gun shy, she isn't, then I wouldn't get rid of her because she is more than just a hunting dog.

But like Gunnergirl said, you have to remember that some folks get dogs, and other animals, for a specific job. In Skeeter's case its to hunt, in Gunnergirl's case to protect, and for disabled folks to help them. In each of these cases if a dog doesn't do what it was adopted for then you try to find it a good home. One that can provide the dog love and happiness.

To me Skeeter is doing that. He could have easily dropped Gunner off at a shelter and walked away from him. The shelter would have probably euthanized Gunner if his hips are as bad as they sound. Instead he is trying to give Gunner a life in which he can't, and Skeeter is asking for us to help him. Which I have offered to do. I have sent him PMs and will help in getting Gunner to Linda.

I think we, people of this forum, need to understand that some people don't get a dog for the same reason that you and I do. Not everyone has the same opinion as you. I know I don't agree with everyone's point of view, and that is why I don't speak up on many of the controversial threads. I think I share many of the same values as most of you, at least with animals, but to often do those controversial threads turn ugly, only alienating people that come here looking for help.

To me this board is for LABS that own people that want/need help with anything.
I understand Alex, and I did not mean to come of disrespectful, I was just curious as to how it all breaks down. I have never had an animal for anything other than a pet, and I assumed they could be both companion and pet. I certainly am not passing judgement either way. I kow that everyone has a different opinion and I believe I have always been respectful of that. If I have not, than I sincerely apologise. I too hate when the board turns ugly on anyone. Thanks Alex.

Well, I was trying to help a pup in obvious pain. But, since Skeeter has totally ignored my request, 2 times now, I am fairly convinced he doesn't care what happens toomuch, which IMHO is very sad, no matter what he got Gunner for.

I'm a little confussed on this whole thing. I went back and re-read his post...Is he just looking for someone to pay for the operation?

Lets see where do I start....for starters its pretty funny when you post on this board to see if there is a possabilty that there is some one out there that would or could spend the money on the surgery for Gunner so he could live a descent life as a pet, and all you get back is people trying to shoot you down because of this situation, like Iam a complete IDIOT when it comes to dogs or something. But thats fine you all can KISS MY YOU KNOW WHAT!!

So for all of you people here that think I am just trying to get rid of a dog because I dont want or dont want to deal with him you can all KISS MY A$$. because You have know Idea what its like to have a dog, Gunner which is my pet, my hunting partner for one year, my companion, my Beagles best friends, now to the point that he cant play or retrieve, he cant run with Ottis or nothing because he is in so much pain that he just cant do it... Yeah its real fun let me tell you,

I don't know, but Lily offered to help no matter what happens; if Skeeter keeps him or if Gunner goes to LOLIN.

poor gunner

azawinsky - well said, i agree that we should open up a little and see that not everyone holds the same opinions on the position of dogs in their families.

I know many hunters in my area, middle georgia, who hunt their dogs and work them hard, but they are very much so loved and taken care of very well. Yet they sleep outside, they are kept in pens (15x15) when they're not out hunting/running trials, and they aren't around their people 24/7. Yet these dogs know better lives than some of the ones who live with people in their homes.... Some dogs just love having a "job" with out it they might act up and act out.

i've seen it happen many times on here- a person comes to the lab board looking for help, and they get hammered for not knowing or not treating their dogs the same way that some of you do.

so like others have said, why not focus on seeing if we can help THE DOG rather than just slamming the person who has asked for advice. And yes in this case the person was quite rude to us, but its hard in a virtual environment because here is it just the typed words---the only one who understands the true meaning of each one is the person who typed it.

we all don't know each other, we don't know how you would have spoken somehting. so keep in mind that it is not the intent of what you say, it is the impact that it makes on someone that really matters.

be kind, be honest, be accepting.

best of luck Gunner. there are options...you just have to be willing to see them.

I hope you have Gunner living inside the house now?
I don't know how cold it gets in Winter, where you live, but the hip problem will be aggravated more if he is outside.

For the sake of Gunner, who deserves no less:
Please get price quotes for hip surgery from some other vet clinics and check into a payment plan, and take up Lily's kind offer to donate some money towards the vet fees, OR please answer Linda's emails/pm's and accept her offer to take in Gunner to her rescue.(Love of Labs Indiana- LOLIN) I am sure there are others who would donate towards helping Gunner get the surgery he needs and is entitled to.
Marion
mariontl@telus.net

Count me in for help for Gunner.
Martha