1. How much does your dog weigh?
2. How active are they?
3. How many kcals do they get per day?

I am curious because Mari is thin (as in I can see every rib) and doesn't seem to put weight on at all. She HAS been to the vet and our next step is to check a fecal sample but like the vet said, she is completely healthy...just a thin dog. She is down to 50 pounds from 55 just over a month ago. I'd like her back up at 55 and so would the vet.

The girls are fed Nature's Logic Chicken which is 551 kcal/cup. Mari has been getting 2 cups/day for a month now and has not put on weight. My next step is to bump her up another 1/2 cup. Activity levels have not changed...Bella has also lost weight on this food. She is down to 65 from 71.

Just wanted a comparison from others...Thanks!

Hmmm...I'm kind of Kcal clueless...haven't tackled that yet, but we are also on the thin side here and Dune just lost a pound and a half in about 2 weeks - or maybe the vet scale was off, who knows. However I do go from being able to see his ribs to maybe just being able to see his last 3 or so. Ok...

1. Dune was 52 lbs today.

2. Dune is pretty active. DDC 3 times a week. At least a half hour exercise type walk in the woods off leash on the non DDC days combined with a good half hour of fetch and random play sessions with my two active boys (skin kids) who are 11 and 7. And we just got Dune a Chuck It that my husband loves to play with him. So...he's not competition in training active, but he's pretty active.

3. I'm feeding Canidae ALS and am through about my first 50 lbs of it. He gets 3.5 cups a day. 1 1/2 in the morning and 2 at night. We go to agility and/or Rally class once a week and he gets about 2 handfuls or so of very small (I actually cut the treats I buy into smaller pieces) of freeze dried beef liver. So...about how many Kcals would that be? Is that something that's on the bag? I don't have the bag anymore.

ETA: Thought I should add that Dune is not very tall. I'd consider him on the shorter side of labs.

If the dogs don't have worms... which is a must to check I might suspect the food. If you have been feeding this food for a long time this should not happen. Unless you are exercising them more.
As many people are complaining about price increases to their bags of food I suspect the smaller companies will start changing their formulas . Check their web. Some don't change their bags for up to six months. A company to stay in business today will be either using cheaper ingredients or passing the price along to you.

If the dogs don't have worms... which is a must to check I might suspect the food. If you have been feeding this food for a long time this should not happen. Unless you are exercising them more.
As many people are complaining about price increases to their bags of food I suspect the smaller companies will start changing their formulas . Check their web. Some don't change their bags for up to six months. A company to stay in business today will be either using cheaper ingredients or passing the price along to you.

My guess is the price has gone up...I don't know for sure because I worked at a pet supply store in CO and got food at cost. I stocked up before I left but there was no price increase before I left. I don't think Nature's Logic is one to change their formula to cut costs though...they are very reputable.

They have been on this food for 2.5 months now but I rotate frequently normally.

Dune- thanks for your post. I think Canidae is at about 470 kcals/cup. So Dune is getting more than Mari.

Dune- thanks for your post. I think Canidae is at about 470 kcals/cup. So Dune is getting more than Mari.

Ok, great. Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I should also add that Dune is only about a year old and I know he has filling to do. Might want to add age to your list of questions. I didn't think of that til just now. Also, I think Canidae around here has gone up about $2 a bag. We pay $36.98 at Pet Supplies Plus.

Ok, great. Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I should also add that Dune is only about a year old and I know he has filling to do. Might want to add age to your list of questions. I didn't think of that til just now. Also, I think Canidae around here has gone up about $2 a bag. We pay $36.98 at Pet Supplies Plus.

That's true- age is important too. We think Mari is over 2 so no more growing.

BTW uplander, I took a look at their site and don't see any difference in formula. Plus, I was just thinking all of this food is probably from the same batch before price increases so it shouldn't be because of that.

We feed Canidae ALS. 468 kcal/cup.

I am not sure of their current weights but

Delta is just over 60lbs (she was 60.6 at her last vet visit in mid Feb) was a LITTLE thin and she has filled out some on 2 1/2 cups a day.

JD is trying to lose some weight as his vet records put him at 100.2 in December. He is thining slowly at 3 cups a day.

They just recently switched to totally Canidae from Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice but I have very close calorie counts.

As for activity... well, they are very light activity for labs. They probaly spend between an hour and an hour and half TOTAL all day playing bitey face/running. We take them on one 1/2 mile to mile walk about 4 days a week. The rest of the time they just lounge around.

Noel was 68 lbs when she started having problems with her back leg and the vet wanted her to lose some weight. She was 61 lbs when she had her vaccines in February.

When we were feeding Canidae L&R she got 1 1/4 cups twice a day. The k/cals are 457 cup. We changed to Purina Pro Plan Selects Salmon and Rice a couple of weeks ago and the k/cals are 430 a cup so I've started feeding her 1 1/2 cups twice a day because it's lower calories and she looks like she could stand to gain a pound or two.

Purina threw me a loop though. They have it broken down between:
Metabolized Energy (ME) 430 kcal/cup and
Digestible Energy (DE) 468 kcal/cup

I have no idea what the difference is between Metabolized Energy(ME) and Digestible Energy(DE) because most brands just show the ME.

Purina threw me a loop though. They have it broken down between:
Metabolized Energy (ME) 430 kcal/cup and
Digestible Energy (DE) 468 kcal/cup

I have no idea what the difference is between Metabolized Energy(ME) and Digestible Energy(DE) because most brands just show the ME.The digestible energy (DE) content of a feedstuff is determined by subtracting the amount of energy in the food from the energy lost in the feces. Metabolizable energy (ME) is the digestible energy minus the energy lost in urine and gases. ME is the most important number.

There are two ways to arrive at that number - the first is through actual testing (i.e. spending a lot of quality time with feces an urine ;) ) and the second is through mathematical calculations, which are somewhat less accurate.

I'm also now clueless as to the kcal amount my boys are getting (make puppy eyes at 3dognite who could probably rattle it off at a glance) since we switched to the Selects Salmon & Rice.

Drum is steady around 80lbs, and eats 2cups 2xday. He's not fit/muscular because he's been unable to exercise for months due to his SLO, but his weight is good and he's nowhere near heavy.

Grip stays steady around 73-74lbs, and eats 1.5cups/2xday. He's getting fitter (more ball time once again!), but he always stays consistently lean anyway.

The girls are fed Nature's Logic Chicken which is 551 kcal/cup. Mari has been getting 2 cups/day for a month now and has not put on weight. My next step is to bump her up another 1/2 cup. Activity levels have not changed...Bella has also lost weight on this food. She is down to 65 from 71.

I have four who are all between 65-72 pounds, but they eat differing amounts - between 1200-1600 calories a day. My 11 year old (who is still very active) has to eat at least 1400 calories a day, whereas I have friends with larger, younger Labs who gain weight on a 1000 calories. It's very nice not to have to worry about obesity, but I don't even want to think about how much extra I've had to spend on food over the years :) (Her brother is raw fed and has similar needs - his family says they spend an extra $30 every month to feed him.)

I like Nature's Logic a lot, but if anything I can feed slightly less when I rotate to Pro Plan, so I've always questioned the "551" kcal/cup. I wonder if it's a DE number instead of ME?

Thanks all! 3dog, I am wondering about the actual kcals too. I originally put them on this food after doing the math on all grain free foods I could get my hands on and seeing what was most economical. According to the math, this was, but that was at feeding what kcals they get on every other food.

I am just so surprised that my little 50 pounder seems to need at least 1300 kcals per day on this.

Thanks all! 3dog, I am wondering about the actual kcals too. I originally put them on this food after doing the math on all grain free foods I could get my hands on and seeing what was most economical. According to the math, this was, but that was at feeding what kcals they get on every other food.

I am just so surprised that my little 50 pounder seems to need at least 1300 kcals per day on this.The cost of the food is actually tied to kcal/kg, not kcal/cup - I've never seen a kcal/kg number for NL - have you?

Thanks all! 3dog, I am wondering about the actual kcals too. I originally put them on this food after doing the math on all grain free foods I could get my hands on and seeing what was most economical. According to the math, this was, but that was at feeding what kcals they get on every other food.

I am just so surprised that my little 50 pounder seems to need at least 1300 kcals per day on this.

Interestingly, we had all three of our dogs on Nature's Logic and Drum and Grip maintained their same weight. Link (who needed to gain weight) just couldn't gain it, no matter how much we upped his feeding amount... he'd just get soft stools. We ended up switching him to a much less expensive - though I thought the NL was a great price for the quality of food - mid-grade food with a higher fiber content and he put the weight on within a week... and maintained it, on the same feeding amount as the NL. It was bewildering.

The cost of the food is actually tied to kcal/kg, not kcal/cup - I've never seen a kcal/kg number for NL - have you?

I haven't, but what I did to get the kcal/cup to see how long I could feed one bag. I then amortized the cost of the food over the number of days I would be feeding it. Now, with feeding Mari more, it definitely won't last as long. Does that make more sense? I was a finance major so I have a problem with analyzing numbers way too many ways. :rolleyes:

Zen, soft poops are what I am afraid of with Mari. Hers are already softer than Bella's...although still in what I could consider the normal range BUT if I up her food, I can see it going haywire.

It sounds like several people have had this issue on NL. 3dog noticing he has to feed more despite the 551kcals and Zen with Link. :confused:

I haven't, but what I did to get the kcal/cup to see how long I could feed one bag. I then amortized the cost of the food over the number of days I would be feeding it.
How did you figure out the number of cups per bag? I guess you weighed a cup?

I think it might be worth a call to the folks at NL. They have excellent customer service and communication.

Like Link, some dogs just seem to thrive on the mid-grade foods.

I tried all sorts of things with Link on the Nature's Logic... after a long conversation with the very nice guy who started the company. First we added enough water to float the kibble, which he said had worked with several people and improved digestion/reduced soft stools. That didn't make any difference in Link's case. Then we were adding increasing amounts of brown rice to it - up to the point where he was eating 2.5 cups of NL PLUS 2 cups of rice, twice a day. No luck. Then finally I just gave up and put him on the less expensive Chicken & Rice food, and by the end of the week not only had he filled out, his stools firmed up and reduced in size, but his gunky ears and bad smell were disappearing.

This experience was responsible for my recent turnaround and my epiphany that all dogs really are different and that even an inarguably excellent food may not work for some dogs!

How did you figure out the number of cups per bag? I guess you weighed a cup?

I think it might be worth a call to the folks at NL. They have excellent customer service and communication.

Like Link, some dogs just seem to thrive on the mid-grade foods.

I had a sample bag that said how many oz it was and then poured that into a cup. Converted the pounds to oz and then figured out how many cups/bag.

I am thinking about buying some Canidae and mixing for awhile to see if that helps her. She does seem to have some issues with grain but we'll see what happens.

Since the NL uses millet, I would suspect using the Canidae with rice wouldn't be a problem. Both millet and rice are non-glutinous grains, and probably more easily digestible for dogs with suspected grain issues than, for instance, wheat, rye or barley.

She was itchy on Innova but that does have barley as well...thanks Zen! I think I'll go get some soon. She's lost 5 pounds on this food and she doesn't have 5 pounds to lose.

Just a hunch ..
could the Nature's Logic at 38 % protein and low carbs be acting like the Atkins Diet?
Your dogs or Labs in general with it's unique metabolism may cause the weight loss ? Or the layer of fat Labs typically have.
One may not like the breed specific foods but some research was put into making the foods. Royal Canine had an excellent video on the reason they use barley starch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhyXqX7XJWY

interesting video, the mispronunciations are entertaining. i was a bit concerned about barley and rye since they are close relatives to wheat.

my kids are on Wellness Lamb, which has just be repackaged as Lamb, Barley and Salmon, although i think the formulation has not changed. its labeled at 405 kcal/cup ME. Cassie is still growing (10 months old) and gets 2 cups twice a day for a total of 1600kcal. wow, that is a lot. im trying to put some weight on her and slowly its working. she is very lean, and you can now only slightly see her ribs. She is also very active. Currently she weighs only 46 pounds. i cant increase the amount any more, her stool gets very soft, and its not so firm as it is.

Oscar gets 1 1/2 cups twice a day for a total of 1200 kcal. He is 6 years old, not nearly as active as Cassie but does run quite a bit with her. He is in ideal shape so i think this amount of this food is working for him.

hope this helps. wouldnt it be nice if all this food stuff actually made any sense. all trial and error it seems.

Hudson gets about 974 a day (he eats 2 cups a day)
Angus gets about 1461 a day (he eats 3 cups a day)

Hudson could stand to lose a few pounds, but Angus has perfect weight. They both eat EVO, but I am thinking of rotating through Natura foods.

This is complicated, isn't it?
Our Hershey just couldn't gain weight after his intestinal surgery last summer and it has only been in the last two months that he is finally at a good weight. He is eating two cups Acana L&R and one cup Orijen TWICE a day so 6 cups total. And this is what seems to suit him!
He's lean and active so it has got to be his metabolism. I always worry about both dogs food - constantly watching their poops and what they looks like.
It is amazing that each dog here is SO different! It is very tricky trying to find out what is best!