I am on a breeder's waiting list for a female yellow lab to be born hopefully late summer/early fall. The breeder already has six ahead of me on the waiting list for yellow female labs plus six on the waiting list for black females. There are three dogs to have babies this spring/summer with one of them having to have a C-section a couple days ago with only ONE black male. What are my chances of getting a puppy out of the fall litter being 7th on the waiting list? Do you think the two dogs left to have babies this May/June plus the one I want the puppy from in the fall will have enough yellow females to get me a puppy? I will take a black female but still have the same amount on the waiting list. I wasn't too worried until the first dog only had one puppy.

Thanks for any advice or hope!

There is no way of knowing. The only thing the breeder can determine is the approximate amount of puppies the bitch is carrying. This is done via ultrasound, or, better yet, x-ray.

It will not determine color or sex.

Unless this was an AI breeding and the semen was spun down to get the female swimmers to the top just prior to AI - in the hopes of producing mostly females in the litter, which I would doubt this breeder did - it is a fairly new procedure and not many are doing it.

I got a little confused, so you are saying there are two litters you are on the list for, and regardless of which litter, you are #7 for a yellow girl and #7 for a black girl?

If it doesn't matter which color, I would put your name on both litters, because there are so many variables to factor in. First the mom's have to have large enough litters, then there have to be enough girls, so if you limit it to even color, you could feasibly not get a puppy. You might also ask the breeder if she has any friends who are having litters she could refer you to, so that IF she ends up with small litters with lots of boys, you can a Plan B.

I can't speak from a breeder's standpoint, but just want to add another point from my own puppy buying experience. We were 4th on the list for a female from an unborn litter. When the litter was born there were only 2 males but 5 females. I thought we were definitely set until the breeder told me that 2 other people who were on her list before me for #3 and #4 males would get the opportunity to switch to a female since there weren't enough males - meaning we wouldn't get a puppy if they both switched. Luckily, neither wanted to switch and preferred to wait for another litter; so we got a female. I don't know if that is typical among breeders or not.

The breeder already has six ahead of me on the waiting list for yellow female labs plus six on the waiting list for black females.

Just doing the math, it looks to me that you might be disappointed. Unless the waiting list for each color includes duplicate names, the breeder will have to satisfy the waiting lists with 12 female puppies before your name comes to the top. It could happen, but I wouldn't count on it. Sorry, wish I could offer you more hope.

I think your math is wrong. The breeder would only need to fill 6 spots...

I wrote:

Unless the waiting list for each color includes duplicate names,....

I think your math is wrong. The breeder would only need to fill 6 spots...

Not if the list for each color holds a unique name that doesn't appear on the other list. It could add up to 12 different names waiting for a female puppy. More than likely, some people on are each list, but we have no way of knowing that.

But they don't need to fill all 6 yellow spots AND all 6 black spots before they are eligible for a puppy. If 6 yellow girls are born and no black girls, the OP will get the next yellow girl. Black won't come into play. If 3 yellow an 3 black girls are born the 2nd litter, the OP will need the 3rd litter to have at least 4 yellow girls to be born to get a yellow one. If 3 yellow and 3 black girls are born again in the 3rd litter, they won't be getting any puppies this year.

But nonetheless, there is no way to predict....

But they don't need to fill all 6 yellow spots AND all 6 black spots before they are eligible for a puppy. If 6 yellow girls are born and no black girls, the OP will get the next yellow girl. Black won't come into play. If 3 yellow an 3 black girls are born the 2nd litter, the OP will need the 3rd litter to have at least 4 yellow girls to be born to get a yellow one. If 3 yellow and 3 black girls are born again in the 3rd litter, they won't be getting any puppies this year.

But nonetheless, there is no way to predict....

I didn't account for the blacks. You are right. Sorry for the confusion.

The vet thought he saw six puppies in the second mom dog due this weekend. Crossing my fingers there are lots of girls!:D

Unless this was an AI breeding and the semen was spun down to get the female swimmers to the top just prior to AI - in the hopes of producing mostly females in the litter, which I would doubt this breeder did - it is a fairly new procedure and not many are doing it.

Patty you have it backwards, when you spin the semen down, the larger heavier girl sperm tend to go to the bottom. This is not effectively used on AI's, only surgicals where only a fraction of the semen is used anyway. On the surgical implants the semen is spun down anyway to concentrate it from the extender, the only difference is that the repro specialist pulls the sperm from the bottom of the tube with the syringe.

Maybe, when the puppies are born one, it would be a wrong time for the family to receive a puppy. Sometimes things change and a family might have to turn down getting a puppy. Moving you up on the list.........just a thought

Patty you have it backwards, when you spin the semen down, the larger heavier girl sperm tend to go to the bottom. This is not effectively used on AI's, only surgicals where only a fraction of the semen is used anyway. On the surgical implants the semen is spun down anyway to concentrate it from the extender, the only difference is that the repro specialist pulls the sperm from the bottom of the tube with the syringe.


Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize this was only used on surgical implants. As I said it isn't a widely used procedure and I have only read about it once. Thought I remembered reading it was used in AIs.

Also didn't know they only used a fraction of semen on implants. I have never done one.

Learned something new today:thumb4: Thanks.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize this was only used on surgical implants. As I said it isn't a widely used procedure and I have only read about it once. Thought I remembered reading it was used in AIs.

Also didn't know they only used a fraction of semen on implants. I have never done one.

Learned something new today:thumb4: Thanks.

To expand a little, on an AI normally the whole shipment is used to assist the sperm make it's long very hazard journey successfully with as many viable ones as possible due to the high mortality rate. On the surgical you are taking only a limited amount of semen and injecting it right on top of the ripened eggs. The horns that you put it in are very small so only a little is needed to fill both sides up. Because of this, you can afford to discard well most of the semen shipped as well as the extender.
We have done primarily all surgicals since 1999, 100% on chilled semen.

To expand a little, on an AI normally the whole shipment is used to assist the sperm make it's long very hazard journey successfully with as many viable ones as possible due to the high mortality rate. On the surgical you are taking only a limited amount of semen and injecting it right on top of the ripened eggs. The horns that you put it in are very small so only a little is needed to fill both sides up. Because of this, you can afford to discard well most of the semen shipped as well as the extender.
We have done primarily all surgicals since 1999, 100% on chilled semen.

We do AIs so that I am aware of. The surgical is interesting. thanks for expanding. Do they have to anesthetise for the implant or no?

I know it will vary from state to state but curious what you pay for a surgical?

Sorry to hi-jack :-) OP.

We do AIs so that I am aware of. The surgical is interesting. thanks for expanding. Do they have to anesthetise for the implant or no?

I know it will vary from state to state but curious what you pay for a surgical?

Sorry to hi-jack :-) OP.
Patty -- We just had a surgical AI done. Yes, she was anesthesized for the procedure. This was our first breeding try, so I'm not sure what the costs are for a regular AI to compare to. The total cost was approximately $425.00 to $450.00, but they added in another progesterone test, the sperm analysis, anesthesia, medication, etc. I don't have the receipt with me, but to my recollection that was the total.

Surgical is about twice as expensive as our regular AI. 3 progesterones, and 1 insemination, each about $65.

I pay $84. for a progesterone. Without a breeder discount its $105. I guess its the area I live in :-(

Thanks for the responses on the surgical costs. Jen the price you quoted is for non surgical AI correct? Surgical implant would run around $520.?

I have no idea of the cost around here but i would bet its a lot more. Good old Bergen County. :-(

Surgical is about twice as expensive as our regular AI. 3 progesterones, and 1 insemination, each about $65.
Jen -- Kate's progesterone tests were $61.40 so we're in the same ballpark. There were like 10 lines of different amounts for the various tests and such for the AI though. Nice to know it's about the same in different states.

Edit

We do AIs so that I am aware of. The surgical is interesting. thanks for expanding. Do they have to anesthetise for the implant or no?

I know it will vary from state to state but curious what you pay for a surgical?

Sorry to hi-jack :-) OP.

Yes, the total procedure takes about 20 minutes. we are in and out in about an hour with our girl walking to the van.
Our progesterone tests are $70 a pop and on average we do less than two for a breeding. We normally wait until day nine to do the 1st one, then based upon the results we might wait up to four days before we do another. Our vet is really good about minimizing the number of tests. She has her own equipment so we get results in about an hour. Just the implant cost is $350 not counting any progesterone tests. She charges $85 for an AI which we can do ourselves but the extra $350 is less than half a puppy and we are assured that we will have a good sized litter, well worth the amount. We are about 3 hours away from her clinic and for the results we get, it is worth the drive.

Maybe, when the puppies are born one, it would be a wrong time for the family to receive a puppy. Sometimes things change and a family might have to turn down getting a puppy. Moving you up on the list.........just a thought

This is what happened to us. We were third on the list to pick for a chocolate boy. (The litter was all chocolate.) One family dropped out for an unknown reason. Then, the day before we were going to pick, the people ahead of us had to wait because their olderl ab had to have emergency knee surgery. So we ended up picking first out of everyone. :-)