We've gone from Chicken soup to Canidae ALS to Canidae L&R and now on EP Holistic LB Adult. Itched through them all. We eliminated barley in his current food, but he is still itching. At the end of this bag of EP, what would you recommend we try next at 5 months of age?

Our main goal in the next food is to eliminate lamb, chicken, barley, rice, oatmeal, flax.


I want to stick with something I can find locally and has none of the above (which is very few). I've kinda narrowed it down to the following two foods, which would you recommend?

Natural balance (fish, duck or venison) with low prot-21% and fat-10% but moderate cal-1.1% and phosphorus-0.9% (0.82 ratio)

TOTW fish with good prot-25% and fat-15% but higher cal-1.9% and phosphorus-1.1% (0.58 ratio)

I don't want to give him too little protein or too much calcium at this age. Or would either really matter to try for just a month?

Since you want to stay away from Lamb, Chicken, Barley, etc. How about the new INNOVA RED MEAT large bites Adult?? Calcium is low under 1.5% and protein is higher than Nat Bal i think 25%-26%. He is fine on the adult now. Many people switch to adult at 4-5months. TOTW is good also but i don't really like the fact they are made by Diamond Pet Foods. They have had recalls in the past. If he is still itching on the Red Meat Bites, I would probably consider grain free..There is Fromm's, Acana, Orijen, oh and TOTW is grain free.

From www.dogfoodanalysis.com (http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com) the Innova Red Meat EVO large bites has calcium levels at 2.11% and that is probably why it is suggested under the comments that the levels are too high for large breed puppies (I believe I read in another thread - that puppy is up to age 1). I had such good luck with Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Venison that I would try it first. I feed California Natural L&R to my two since they have no grain issues and give them a tablespoon of canned - I'm thinking that I'll get some Innova 95% canned to increase their protein/meat. I'm also under the impression that the couple treats each gets brings up their daily fat intake as well. These snacks they'd get regardless of the dog food they are on so imo, it just levels out how much fat they should have. I think I'm at that point where I've read and read and read and read and may now be overthinking things.

Evangers canned food is also just meat and water. If you are looking for a canned to add zip and protein.

I would go with the Taste of The Wild. I wouldn't feed Evo until the puppy is at least a year old

Do you think the Ca:P ratio or amounts in the TOTW are okay for a 5 month old for a month?

From www.dogfoodanalysis.com (http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com) the Innova Red Meat large bites has calcium levels at 2.11% and that is probably why it is suggested under the comments that the levels are too high for large breed puppies (I believe I read in another thread - that puppy is up to age 1). I had such good luck with Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Venison that I would try it first. I feed California Natural L&R to my two since they have no grain issues and give them a tablespoon of canned - I'm thinking that I'll get some Innova 95% canned to increase their protein/meat. I'm also under the impression that the couple treats each gets brings up their daily fat intake as well. These snacks they'd get regardless of the dog food they are on so imo, it just levels out how much fat they should have. I think I'm at that point where I've read and read and read and read and may now be overthinking things.

Can't believe all you read on the web...You have posted info about EVO...

NEW Innova Red Meat (NOT EVO) has very Low Calcium levels...
Calcium 1.16 to Phos .83

Click on the.. Nutrient Analysis

http://www.innovapet.com/product_line.asp?id=1675

Yes the RED MEAT is low in calcium. I think she meant the EVO too. :D
I would give the red meat Innova a try as it has what you want and don't want in it.. Good luck I think TOTW calcium is ok but is that the maximum calcium in it or minimum? You can call the company to be sure.....

The new red meat Innova has lamb, flaxseed, and rice. It looks like you're going to have to try a different protein (fish, duck, etc.) and grain free. ToTW is good or the Orijen fresh fish, not sure of the calcium levels though . Good luck

The TOTW Ca:P levels are actual percentages from the company. Plus I know the Ca:P ratio is pretty low. I know the Natural Balance has good Ca:P levels, but it has pretty low protein and I'm not sure that while I'm trying to figure out his problems, its the best time to throw canned food into the mix. Orijen has very high protein, and its also not available within 90 miles of me. I'm trying to avoid ordering online.

IMHO you are not giving each food enough time to see if it is really the cause of your puppy's itichies or not if you've fed that many different brands of food in just 5 months. Food changes need to be given for at least 8 to 12 weeks before any changes can/will be observed.

If it were my puppy I'd pick a food and feed it for at least 8 weeks before I switched again. Perhaps the itchies aren't even from food but rather from external causes or inhalant allergies.

If it were my puppy I'd pick a food and feed it for at least 8 weeks before I switched again. Perhaps the itchies aren't even from food but rather from external causes or inhalant allergies.

I agree, and I'd also suggest getting a prescription hydrolized protein kibble from the vet. It's much more scientific and efficient to start with a hypoallergenic food and gradually add in new whole ingredients to find the source of the problem than it is to just switch around foods and do the "guess & check" method.

IMHO you are not giving each food enough time to see if it is really the cause of your puppy's itichies or not if you've fed that many different brands of food in just 5 months. Food changes need to be given for at least 8 to 12 weeks before any changes can/will be observed.

If it were my puppy I'd pick a food and feed it for at least 8 weeks before I switched again. Perhaps the itchies aren't even from food but rather from external causes or inhalant allergies.

-We tried each food for a month, which currently are 30-35 lb bags. But when you put him on something and he immediately gets worse, I didn't figure it was best to keep on doing that to him for 2-3 months. His itching has progressively gotten worse since we got him. And there are only a few ingredients that has been in each food.

So is it really advisable to buy another new bag of EP when he's itching so badly at the end of a month and 33lbs of food?

Overall he doesnt do bad on any food. No vomiting or diarrhea (other than soft stools during the changeover). He is just itching himself like crazy.

Are you sure the itchiness is caused by food? Have you considered that your puppy may have environmental allergies?
According to the veterinary dermatologist I take my allergy dog to, true food allergies are uncommon.
You may what to take your pup to a dermatologist to determine what the cause of the itching is. It's a little pricey up front, but you'll save $$$ in the long run, and the chances of finding relief for him is greatly increased.
Kathy

-We tried each food for a month, which currently are 30-35 lb bags. But when you put him on something and he immediately gets worse, I didn't figure it was best to keep on doing that to him for 2-3 months. His itching has progressively gotten worse since we got him. And there are only a few ingredients that has been in each food.

So is it really advisable to buy another new bag of EP when he's itching so badly at the end of a month and 33lbs of food?

Overall he doesnt do bad on any food. No vomiting or diarrhea (other than soft stools during the changeover). He is just itching himself like crazy.


Without the diarrhea it is in no way a food allergy...
The mucus membranes in the gut would get inflamed and cause diarrhea.


Look at flea product..Heartworm med, carpet sprays, food dish is it stainless steel ? not plastic, WATER is it filtered or bottled and not tap...Dryer sheets in the house..bedding material...

from reading articles in the WDJ you need to give any new food a chance to chase the old food out of the system...up to three months... and sometimes itching gets worse before better..

I also like Omega 3 from fish oil .. It works as an anti inflamitory... Feed no treats...at all ...they could be the reason for itching too...

In the yard is any lawn chemical or fertilizer on the grass... ?

I agree, and I'd also suggest getting a prescription hydrolized protein kibble from the vet. It's much more scientific and efficient to start with a hypoallergenic food and gradually add in new whole ingredients to find the source of the problem than it is to just switch around foods and do the "guess & check" method.

I agree too. The allergies as posted by many posters could be environmental. The best way to test would be to do some blood test to determine what your puppy is really allergic too. If you really think it is food, you can also try food elimination.

Could it be fleas? very harsh shampoo?dry climate?

With shampoo, I like oatmeal based shampoo for my lab.

Without the diarrhea it is in no way a food allergy...
The mucus membranes in the gut would get inflamed and cause diarrhea.


Look at flea product..Heartworm med, carpet sprays, food dish is it stainless steel ? not plastic, WATER is it filtered or bottled and not tap...Dryer sheets in the house..bedding material...

from reading articles in the WDJ you need to give any new food a chance to chase the old food out of the system...up to three months... and sometimes itching gets worse before better..

I also like Omega 3 from fish oil .. It works as an anti inflamitory... Feed no treats...at all ...they could be the reason for itching too...

In the yard is any lawn chemical or fertilizer on the grass... ?


I Second this statement...Uplander always has solid advice