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Doppler
09-08-2009, 06:07 PM
I'm posting this article in it's entirety in hopes of putting an end to the nonsense that there are cats and dogs in pet food. The text that is in bold and underlined is my highlighting. After this article I have posted a quote taken from another related article, "Environmental Warning Added to Euthanasia Products".

_______________________________________________

CVM Scientists Develop PCR Test to Determine Source of Animal Products in Feed, Pet Food

by Michael Myers, Ph.D., Research Pharmacologist, Office of Research
FDA Veterinarian Newsletter January/February 2004 Volume XIX, No 1

A test, derived to determine source of pentobarbital in pet food, is so sensitive it can identify the species of origin for animal products on a scale of 7 lbs. per 500 tons. Tests find no cat or dog DNA in pet food.

Anecdotal reports from veterinarians during the 1990s suggested pentobarbital appeared to be losing its effectiveness as an anesthetizing agent in dogs. These reports led to speculation that pentobarbital was present as a contaminant in dog food, and that this was altering the physiological response to pentobarbital-induced anesthesia in some dogs.

Pentobarbital is used to humanely euthanize unwanted animals (including dogs and cats in animal shelters) as well as animals in situations of severe pain and suffering. Pentobarbital is a member of the barbiturate family of drugs, which are proven inducers of drug metabolism. Agents that induced drug metabolism enhance the metabolism and elimination of drugs from the body, which has a net effect of decreasing the effectiveness of those drugs. While pentobarbital is a weak inducer of drug metabolism, there was speculation that the dogs had been exposed somehow to pentobarbital, which increased the dogs' metabolism to the drug to cause reduced effectiveness. Until recently, carcasses from pentobarbital-euthanized animals were disposed of by rendering. Pentobarbital is known to survive the rendering process and partition equally into protein and fat 1 .

Scientists working at the Food and Drug Administration's Center for Veterinary Medicine developed an analytical method for the determination of pentobarbital residues in dog food, and in a limited survey found that several lots of commercial dog food contained confirmable levels (10-60 parts per billion) of pentobarbital 2 . These results confirmed an earlier study that also found detectable levels of pentobarbital in dry dog food samples 3 . Thus, one of the two central premises for why pentobarbital could be losing effectiveness—the presence of pentobarbital in dry dog food—was demonstrated.

However, the second premise, namely auto-induction of drug metabolism, could not be demonstrated. In a toxicological study designed to answer this very question, FDA scientists demonstrated that pentobarbital could affect the drug metabolizing system of dogs, but only at greatly elevated levels of pentobarbital 4 ; i.e., at levels well above those possible by prolonged consumption of dog food containing the highest levels of pentobarbital.

PCR-based Test
These studies did not address the central question of the source of the pentobarbital in dog food. It has been presumed that pentobarbital was present in these dog food samples because euthanized animals, such as dogs, cats, and horses, might be included with other animal-byproducts used in preparing dog food. However, this presumption was difficult to test due to the limitations of existing analytical methods. Therefore, CVM scientists developed a polymerase chain reaction (PCR)-based approach to identify species-specific products that might be present in dog food.

The approach the scientists used was a modification of the PCR-based method validated for detecting bovine-derived materials in complete animal feed. 5 The polymerase chain reaction is an in vitro, test-tube diagnostic approach using DNA precursor molecules, two distinct oligonucleotides (termed “primers”), magnesium ions, the template or target DNA, and DNA polymerase, the enzyme that catalyzes the process.

The PCR primers are short, synthetic stretches of DNA that bind to the template DNA. The primers are designed to bind to only one particular section of DNA, such that with repeated cycles of amplification, logarithmic increases in the DNA sequence between where the primers bind are produced. This results in an easily detectable level of product.

Because of the specificity of the primers, it is possible to detect not only one genetic sequence in an organism's entire genome, but to determine from which species of several closely related species a particular DNA sequence was derived.

The underlying principle of the method we developed is the amplification of a mitochondria-specific DNA sequence (mtDNA) using PCR primer pairs that permit species-specific amplification.

Mitochondria are small organelles found in eukaryotes which are responsible for directing cellular respiration. Mitochondria are more commonly called “the cells' powerhouse” because of their unique role in generating the energy sources used by cells. ­Mitochondria have their own DNA called mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) which is distinct from genomic DNA. The genes encoded by mtDNA are used to control cell respiration. Genomic DNA is equally inherited from both parents, while mtDNA comes only from the mother.

The use of mtDNA sequences increases the number of targets available for amplification relative to genomic DNA, which increases the sensitivity of the method. This approach is possible because there are roughly 50-100 mitochondria in each cell, all having a copy of mtDNA.

In addition, each mitochondria may have up to 100 copies of mtDNA, for a potential of 2,500-10,000 copies of mtDNA per cell, compared with a single copy of a given genomic DNA sequence.

Accordingly, PCR primers specific for canine, equine, or feline mtDNA sequences were developed and used to test for the possible presence of rendered materials from these species in dog food.

In addition, other species-specific PCR primers were used to assess the accuracy of the label claims by comparing the PCR results with the ingredient statements from the package label.

Looking for Canine DNA
A PCR primer set specific for a canine mtDNA sequence was deduced, and subsequently shown to amplify only that mtDNA derived from dogs, but not mtDNA derived from cattle, swine, sheep, goat, pig, cat, deer, elk, poultry, turkey, rabbit, or horse blood (Fig 1).

When the PCR process is applied to a sample, researchers look for the process to yield PCR products called amplicons that are specific both to the animal species and gene sequence the researchers are looking for.

Thirty-one dog food samples previously analyzed for the presence of pentobarbital 2 were then subjected to the DNA extraction process and tested for the presence of canine DNA. The results demonstrated the complete absence of canine DNA in all 31 samples (Fig 2) at a level exceeding 0.0007% (w/w). In other words, at this level of detection, we can say that if there is any canine material in the dog food, it is present at a rate of less than 7 lb. per 500 tons.

Cats and horses are also euthanized with pentobarbital and thus might be the source of this drug in dog food. PCR primer sets that are specific for either feline or equine mtDNA were also developed to test the same dog food samples for presence of mtDNA that might have been derived from cats or horses. The results from these analyses demonstrated the complete absence of PCR products, the amplicons, specific for either cat or horse mtDNA in all 31 dog food samples. This analysis was carried out under conditions that achieved 0.007% sensitivity.

Because the results so far were negative, it was important to demonstrate that mtDNA from these dog food samples could be amplified to increase the sensitivity of the test. Therefore, the mtDNA from these samples were subjected to PCR amplification using a set of PCR primers (termed “universal” primers) shown to amplify only mtDNA from cow, deer, elk, sheep, goat, horse and pig. These particular animal species were expected to be present in the samples due to the ingredient statements of the dog food labels.

The results demonstrated that most, but not all, samples had a PCR amplicon, indicating that one or more of these species (cow, deer, elk, sheep, goat, horse or pig) were present in these dog food samples. Interestingly, two samples that were positive for pentobarbital did not produce a PCR amplicon when the universal primers were used, suggesting a complete absence of mammalian-derived mtDNA from species that are typically euthanized with pentobarbital.

Using PCR primer sets specific for bovine, swine, or sheep mtDNA, we were able to demonstrate the presence of rendered material derived from one or more of these species. As expected, samples that did not produce a PCR amplicon using the universal primers failed to produce amplicons when the species-specific primers were used.

For the most part, the PCR results confirmed the ingredients as listed on the package label. Unexpectedly, there were four samples that had PCR results inconsistent with the package label.

Two dog food samples listed lamb in the label, yet both samples also had a PCR amplicon specific for bovine mtDNA. One of the samples labeled as containing lamb proteins produced no amplicon specific for sheep (lamb). While the remaining two samples listed only poultry on the label, one sample had a PCR amplicon specific for bovine mtDNA, whereas the other sample had a PCR amplicon specific for swine mtDNA. Pentobarbital was present in these latter two samples.

No Dog or Cat mtDNA
It is widely presumed that the principal source of pentobarbital in pet food is the rendered remains of animals euthanized at animal shelters. However, the absence of detectable feline or canine mtDNA in the samples indicates that, within the context of this ­limited survey, rendered proteins from euthanized dogs and cats were not present in these dog food samples. The detection limit of the method as used in this study is, at a minimum, 0.0007% on a w/w basis, or 7 lbs. of rendered protein in 500 tons of dog food. While one can argue that there may be the rendered remains of dogs or cats below this level, this amount of rendered meat and bone meal (less than 7 lbs.) is insufficient to produce the levels of pentobarbital detected in some of these dog food samples.

Horses are the other animal species euthanized with pentobarbital in relatively large numbers. Due to their large size, and the amount of drug needed for euthanasia, one horse would represent a significant portion of a large batch of meat and bone meal. However, none of the 31 dog food samples examined in this study tested positive for equine proteins.

Also, none of the samples was positive for feline proteins.

Thus, the pentobarbital found in 10 of these 31 dog food samples does not appear to be due to contamination of meat and bone meal containing the remains of euthanized dogs, horses, or cats.

In fact, the PCR results on the species of origin in the various dog food samples do not support a single point source of protein for the origin of the pentobarbital.

The only common feature of all samples containing pentobarbital is the presence of animal fat. This suggests that animal fat might be the source for pentobarbital. This hypothesis is supported by observations from the initial survey for pentobarbital in dog food. A positive relationship was noted between the ingredients listed on the package label and the likelihood a sample contained pentobarbital.

While the results of this study narrow the search for the source of pentobarbital, it does not define the source (i.e., species) responsible for the contamination.

This PCR method developed by FDA scientists can also be used in assuring the validity of label claims on feed or pet food.

Twenty-seven of the 31 samples showed agreement between the PCR results and the package label for mammalian and avian derived components. In only four samples did the PCR results not agree with the label claims. In all four cases, bovine materials were noted by the PCR results; there were no bovine protein sources listed on the labels for these samples. However, these samples all list either animal fat or beef tallow on the label, suggesting that this component might be the source of the bovine material. Residual levels of animal derived proteins contaminating the animal fat might explain these findings; whether this is the case or not cannot be determined at present.

The absence of a PCR amplicon in these samples could also be due to experimental error or sample misbranding. Based on previous results, the rate of false negatives and false positive for this method is 1.25% and 0.83%, respectively. 4 However, these samples were analyzed by two different investigators on two different occasions, with both analysts obtaining the same result, suggesting that the product is incorrectly labeled (i.e. misbranded or adulterated).

Conclusion
The results of this study demonstrated a lack of correlation between species identity and the presence of pentobarbital in dog food. They also provide evidence against the presumption that euthanized pets are routinely rendered and used in pet food.

In addition, the results of this study have established a methodology for identification of the types (re: species) of meat and bone meal present in dog food. This method should prove useful for analysis of dog (and cat) food for the accuracy of the label claims.





References
O'Connor JJ, Stowe CM, Robinson RR. Fate of sodium pentobarbital in rendered products. Am J Vet Res 1985; 46:1721-1724.
Heller DN, Lewis KM, Cui W. Method for determination of pentobarbital in dry dog food by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry. J Agric Food Chem 2001; 49:4597-602.
Adam LA, Reeves VB. Procedure for detecting and confirming pentobarbital residues in dog food by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry. J Assoc Off Analyt Chem 1998; 81:359-367.
Kawalek JK, Howard KD, Farrell DE, Derr J, Cope CV, Jackson J, Myers MJ. Effect of low doses of pentobarbital in beagles. Am J Vet Res 2003; .
Myers MJ, Friedman SL, Farrell DE, et al. Validation of a polymerase chain reaction method for the detection of rendered bovine-derived materials in feedstuffs. J Food Protect 2001: 64:564-566.
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/FDAVeterinarianNewsletter/ucm093929.htm

_____________________________________________

Environmental Warning Added to Euthanasia Products
July 23, 2003


"ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARD: This product is toxic to wildlife. Birds and mammals feeding on treated animals may be killed. Euthanized animals must be properly disposed of by deep burial, incineration, or other method in compliance with state and local laws, to prevent consumption of carcass material by scavenging wildlife."

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm119205.htm

.

GussyandHudson
09-08-2009, 06:56 PM
Regardless I think none of us truly know what is in dog food or our own food. Looking at documentaries on how the pigs/chickens/cows are treated that we eat makes me want to throw up and I hate that we live in this kind of World. Do I still eat meat? Yes, but I choose to buy it from local farms. I also choose a dog food company a little closer to home but yet I still don't know what really goes on at the factory. Do all the research you want but I doubt we'll ever really know the truth.

CanyonLabradors
09-08-2009, 07:35 PM
Yeah, I don't buy the dead pets in pet food conspiracy either.

Doppler
09-09-2009, 12:36 AM
Regardless I think none of us truly know what is in dog food or our own food. Looking at documentaries on how the pigs/chickens/cows are treated that we eat makes me want to throw up and I hate that we live in this kind of World. Do I still eat meat? Yes, but I choose to buy it from local farms. I also choose a dog food company a little closer to home but yet I still don't know what really goes on at the factory. Do all the research you want but I doubt we'll ever really know the truth.

It seems impossible to get every bit of truth about food, for dog or people. Hearing that dogs and cats are in pet foods is upsetting and I believe that this is one less thing that we should worry about. If the ingredient lists on food labels were more detailed I think there would be less problems with trust. :2cents:

Woofie
09-09-2009, 01:52 AM
I believe that this is one less thing that we should worry about.

There are no hard and fast rules on anything....that's the scary thing to life and buying groceries rather then growing them ourselves.

Same goes for dog/cat foods....unless one makes it from scratch, irregardless who the company is, you're never going to know what's *exactly* in that food.

My personal feeling is if you want to feel peace of mind, to the point you're not having to do constant research night after night about what might be snuck into pet food, or mislabeling of ingredients, buy your ingredients fresh and cook them yourself.

Not saying it's possible for everyone, but it does provide a little more peace of mind cause at least you know exactly what that dogs getting, and not wandering if you should spend hours researching articles.

I spent time, on and off for over 10yrs researching every canine diet type, quality of each company, and loop-hole imaginable; got tired of it, in the end I chose one company that I really have faith in, but I don't solely feed it as the base diet. They get a lot of fresh foods.

What I'm saying is, find a few companies *you* trust and let it ride. You get to a point that you get tired of constantly searching for truth behind everything....which is what I did for years, and decided I was spending more time researching which food to feed then I was in spending actual time with the animals I so dearly cared about.

My hats off to you for all the research you're doing...gave up on all that a few years back cause so much of it just makes you sick to read it....if it's not one thing, it's another.

But...our own food sources are becoming very questionable too! All we can do is what we can do and what each person chooses to do. :2cents:

MSDOGS1976
09-09-2009, 05:40 AM
But Doppler, haven't you read Ann Martin's book 'Food Pets Die For'?;)

CanyonLabradors
09-09-2009, 06:22 AM
I am certainly not going to read that "hype" book. She has no background in animals nor animal nutrition, and honestly if I were going to write a paper, let's call it "Bigfoot Exists"....I could certainly find enough supported reseach to make my claim seem true.

If this woman were truly the guru of honesty on the subject, we'd hear more about her, not just through the internet circles.

Woofie
09-09-2009, 07:40 AM
But Doppler, haven't you read Ann Martin's book 'Food Pets Die For'?;)

Why the need for this comment?

Doppler posted a very good article, each person is allowed to read it for themselves and take what they want from it; all she did was simply post an article.

GussyandHudson and I posted our opinions on food in general, neither agreeing or disagreeing with the article as truly no one will ever know anything that we don't raise and cook ourselves, including what WE may experience through eating at McDonalds....you don't know if someone behind the counter didn't spit in the food.

Simply saying no one knows anything for certain....life is like a box of chocolates. Do we really need to keep butting heads??

I say we all agree to just let our opinions rest. There's so much confliction on this board, anyone new is going to run the other way. And no one is ever going to really learn, or want to continue reading these threads if all we're doing is making immature comments, sly remarks about another person's belief.

We're all adults here...we need to quit with the defensive-type comebacks, and just agree to disagree...no matter what you try to pound into any one of our heads, talking about the regular members on this board, we have all, for the majority, have already formed our opinions on what we believe in the pet food industry.

I think everyone needs to try and not feel the need to be so defensive of what you're belief is; if you want to feed a simple easy to find dog food versus one that must be found at a specific store, and vice versa, then feed it til your hearts content.....everyone appears the need to be defensive on their choice, which doesn't make any sense to me...if you're truly comfortable with feeding what your feeding, then feed it and ride on.

You can still voice your opinion on any subject, but it doesn't need to be said in a defensive, argumentative way.

Just my :2cents:

LuckyLuna
09-09-2009, 09:08 AM
Why the need for this comment?

Doppler posted a very good article, each person is allowed to read it for themselves and take what they want from it; all she did was simply post an article.

GussyandHudson and I posted our opinions on food in general, neither agreeing or disagreeing with the article as truly no one will ever know anything that we don't raise and cook ourselves, including what WE may experience through eating at McDonalds....you don't know if someone behind the counter didn't spit in the food.

Simply saying no one knows anything for certain....life is like a box of chocolates. Do we really need to keep butting heads??

I say we all agree to just let our opinions rest. There's so much confliction on this board, anyone new is going to run the other way. And no one is ever going to really learn, or want to continue reading these threads if all we're doing is making immature comments, sly remarks about another person's belief.

We're all adults here...we need to quit with the defensive-type comebacks, and just agree to disagree...no matter what you try to pound into any one of our heads, talking about the regular members on this board, we have all, for the majority, have already formed our opinions on what we believe in the pet food industry.

I think everyone needs to try and not feel the need to be so defensive of what you're belief is; if you want to feed a simple easy to find dog food versus one that must be found at a specific store, and vice versa, then feed it til your hearts content.....everyone appears the need to be defensive on their choice, which doesn't make any sense to me...if you're truly comfortable with feeding what your feeding, then feed it and ride on.

You can still voice your opinion on any subject, but it doesn't need to be said in a defensive, argumentative way.

Just my :2cents:

I appreciate your comments. Responding to an OP's post with our own thoughts and perspectives is great - trying to bait another poster who hasn't even entered this particular thread is not.

As far as the article: I don't think the dog/cat inclusion is a problem at this point in time - although I would never say never. I continue to read labels carefully, avoid some ingredients, trust a couple of companies more than others, and don't put all my eggs into one formula or type of food. Seems like it's a somewhat similar approach to my own style of eating.

Woofie
09-09-2009, 09:42 AM
Trying to bait another poster who hasn't even entered this particular thread is not.

.

If that's what you think I'm trying to do then I apologize; if anything the latter two posters are trying to bait this particular thread with their comments...that was my point.

My point is, why does everyone keep baiting period....just let it go.

Why can't someone post an article and leave it be...if you don't like it, don't respond.

It's been wonderful being a member here, but there's just too much argument constantly going on....I can't and I won't keep up with it....it's not worth it, life's too short.

FWIW...you are ALL great pet owners, otherwise you wouldn't be here, and I've never said otherwise. What's utmost important is the love factor in our canine's lives, it doesn't always boil down to just what's put in the food bowl.

Best wishes to all of you....off to work now...I've said my peace and I'm done...

uplander
09-09-2009, 10:01 AM
Thank you Doppler for confirming that dead dogs, cats , horses, roadkill wind up at the renderer.....It is right in the posting you made....

The only common feature of all samples containing pentobarbital is the presence of animal fat. This suggests that animal fat might be the source for pentobarbital. This hypothesis is supported by observations from the initial survey for pentobarbital in dog food. A positive relationship was noted between the ingredients listed on the package label and the likelihood a sample contained pentobarbital.

Here is a good article about rendering plants.....

http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/290/2/Pet-Food-Ingredients-By-Product-Meal-Meat-and-Bone-Meal-Animal-Fatwhats-in-there/Page2.html
My first experience with an independent rendering plant that rendered product for pet food was totally shocking. I suppose I was partially prepared for it by the meatpacking plants, but this was still shocking. At any rate the local plant called me because they were expecting a corporate representative to come in the following month, and they had a horrendous rat problem. They wanted to show corporate that they had the problem under control. I am going to try to remember this plant in detail to give you an idea of what goes into our pet foods. That is not to say that they are all this way, but this is a general example that I ran into more often than I would have expected.

The plant was out in the middle of an open field and except for a 15 foot parameter around the building the weeds were waist to neck high. I entered the plant on a dirt drive that went up to a concrete parking slab in the front of the building; in front of the office door an a large overhead door. The dirt drive went around one side of the building to the back where there was a concrete dump area with an overhead door going into the building. The concrete slab was sloped away from the building with a curb on both sides so that they could wash down the area. This is where the dead animals, parts and pieces of animals and other things to be rendered or processed were dumped. Between the dirt drive area and the building was junk parts and equipment piled up that obviously housed a large colony of rats as you could see their trails in and out of the junk piles. The other dumping ground for machine parts, etc. out back was also full of rats. The concrete pad in the back where the trucks dumped their loads had rat holes lining the curb that ran along the sides.

As you might imagine, this area was loaded with flies; the piles of products were alive with maggots. It made it look like the whole pile of product was alive and moving. After the loads were dumped they were picked up by a bobcat (a miniature loader with a scoop on the front) and hauled inside the plant to the rendering pit. The plant had three undocumented workers doing the labor, including running the bobcat. The pit was a concrete hole with sloped sides that was about 8 to 10 feet deep and it had four sides that were about 7 feet long. There was a small seem 1 inch wide about 4 feet down that ran all the way around the pit. This seem, as the ones in the corners, had several rat holes in them, so rats were living in the rendering pit.

Doppler
09-09-2009, 10:38 AM
Thank you Doppler for confirming that dead dogs, cats , horses, roadkill wind up at the renderer.....It is right in the posting you made....



Here is a good article about rendering plants.....

Read the whole article Uplander or get someone to explain it to you. Don't take a quote out of context and try to put fear into people.

I have always said that how ingredients are handled is important (to me) and this can't be determined by the ingredient list alone. Certainly the thought of rats entering the rendering process can be upsetting but what do you think your dog would eat if he got lost and had to fend for himself? Research the natural diet of canids. It may be gross for people but it doesn't bother dogs in the least bit. Are you saying that rendered rats are unhealthy? Are you implying that rendered rats is in all dog foods? If the rendered material was used for dog food it may have been for a food with a "named" fat source, you don't know.

Charlie'sDad
09-09-2009, 10:48 AM
It doesn't sound all that far-fetched that somewhere at some time, some pet food exec had the idea that all those euthanized pets were going to waste, and that it would be possible to render them for pet food. A little bit of greed, a little bit of risk, loose ethics, and the right connections... in rolls the $$. Far worse things have happened in corporate America.

uplander
09-09-2009, 10:55 AM
Read the whole article Uplander or get someone to explain it to you. Don't take a quote out of context and try to put fear into people.

I have always said that how ingredients are handled is important (to me) and this can't be determined by the ingredient list alone. Certainly the thought of rats entering the rendering process can be upsetting but what do you think your dog would eat if he got lost and had to fend for himself? Research the natural diet of canids. It may be gross for people but it doesn't bother dogs in the least bit. Are you saying that rendered rats are unhealthy? Are you implying that rendered rats is in all dog foods? If the rendered material was used for dog food it may have been for a food with a "named" fat source, you don't know.

For some reason ...I wonder why ? you think Pet Food has been a clean industry...Animal feeds are a main problem in the entire nations food chain.... and the reason free range feeding animals are so much healthier to eat...

I am no Ann Martin or Dog Food project, truth about pet food , just an informed Labrador owner.....Me scare people...I don't think so...it's the Purina , Mars, Heinz , and other giants that are feeding this junk to the nations Pets....

For Purina to treat their top of the line Pro Plan like a low end food was certainly a bean counters decision.... Profit driven.... and led by an assumption that all feeders are dumb...Pro Plan should have top quality ingredients....the consumers are paying top price for it....

I am not saying that low end foods need top ingredients...Animal Fat has always been used in them....some people can only afford to feed those foods...But charging the price Purina does for Pro Plan Selects...they should get top ingredients....

Doppler
09-09-2009, 11:09 AM
For some reason ...I wonder why ? you think Pet Food has been a clean industry...Where did I say that? I did say "how an ingredient is handled is important to me".



Animal feeds are a main problem in the entire nations food chain.... and the reason free range feeding animals are so much healthier to eat...

Not necessarily so.


.....Me scare people...I don't think so...
All the time.

uplander
09-09-2009, 11:26 AM
Where did I say that? I did say "how an ingredient is handled is important to me".


Not necessarily so.

All the time.

I would rather think the ingredients the Giants put into food are doing the frightening....

I am scared to use their China based products.....Gee...do you think China cares what it ships to the USA....?????They eat dogs and cats for supper....

Something is defiantly wrong for Pet Food makers using ingredients from a backwards country like China that has no regards for how they treat animals.

Doppler
09-09-2009, 01:34 PM
I would rather think the ingredients the Giants put into food are doing the frightening....

I am scared to use their China based products.....Gee...do you think China cares what it ships to the USA....?????They eat dogs and cats for supper....

Something is defiantly wrong for Pet Food makers using ingredients from a backwards country like China that has no regards for how they treat animals.

Take in a deep breath.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLE1tXwre9Q

Woofie
09-09-2009, 02:30 PM
Doppler/Uplander - I'm personally going to send you two a set of boxing gloves, perhaps you can duke it out on the sidelines.:hammer:

You are both such wonderful people/members with a lot to offer other members. I truly believe you two just need to agree to disagree and let it go....I don't see this thread going anywhere useful to anyone.

Doppler
09-09-2009, 04:12 PM
Did you watch the video all the way through? For some reason I find it funny, the more I watch it the more I laugh. It works, I feel less stressed.

HeatherGlenES
09-09-2009, 04:29 PM
I'm breathing deeply, got my shoulders up by my ears, am listening to soothing music, laughing my a$$ off and driving like a bat out of hell....whew...I feel better already! *LOL*

I know this post has little to do with the original subject but....we all need to lighten up a little from time to time. :)

Zman1001
09-10-2009, 07:06 AM
Doppler,
Thanks for posting the article. I read the entire thing and it was nice to see some report to support claims. It was very interesting. It answered some questions I had.

uplander
09-10-2009, 08:29 AM
I'm mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore .....:D

Just kidding Woofie....:floor

I've worked in manufacturing these last 30 years....and seen many things....come and go...people and ideas..but one thing holds true in corporate America....the Almighty dollar rules...people don't matter, morales don't matter, it all boils down to profit....there is no ceiling....if more can be made a bean counter will rule over quality....

That is why I favor a small family run business when it comes to buying kibble...They can run the business with a mission statement that doesn't include the word shareholders...if they want to make less profit to make quality product they can...the money gets shared into a smaller group...

As to whether dead dogs and cats have been and continue to find their way into pet food....I'll leave that up to you to decide after reading Ann Martin's book...Food Pet's Die For..it isn't a long read... a lot of the book is about recipes for home cooking...The only thing I can say..She backed up every word with fact...Freedom of Information documents, and interviews with people involved....In rendering, Pet Shelters, and more....The book is worth the read....Pro Plan was a food named...on page 33 along with 29 other brands....Things like this only occur when using poorly sourced products and un-named fats...Animal Fat. and from animals PTS either at the Vet or on the farm...

Zman1001
09-10-2009, 09:00 AM
I will read it when there is a 2009 version, updated to account for everything that has changed in the past 6 years since her last edit.........................

Even the article that Doppler posted was posted in 2004, which is after the latest edit of her book.

LuckyLuna
09-10-2009, 10:05 AM
If that's what you think I'm trying to do then I apologize; if anything the latter two posters are trying to bait this particular thread with their comments...that was my point.

My point is, why does everyone keep baiting period....just let it go.

Why can't someone post an article and leave it be...if you don't like it, don't respond.

It's been wonderful being a member here, but there's just too much argument constantly going on....I can't and I won't keep up with it....it's not worth it, life's too short.

FWIW...you are ALL great pet owners, otherwise you wouldn't be here, and I've never said otherwise. What's utmost important is the love factor in our canine's lives, it doesn't always boil down to just what's put in the food bowl.

Best wishes to all of you....off to work now...I've said my peace and I'm done...

Sorry for the confusion Woofie. I was agreeing with your comment that the MSDOGS1976 post served no useful purpose. Goes to show how I (and all of us) need to choose our words carefully so the true meaning is clear.

uplander
09-10-2009, 10:16 AM
I will read it when there is a 2009 version, updated to account for everything that has changed in the past 6 years since her last edit.........................

Even the article that Doppler posted was posted in 2004, which is after the latest edit of her book.

I doubt you will....I guess you have not seen all the human food re-calls since 2004....Not one thing has changed and it gets worse....It all has to do with the global economy...The Menu re-calls only happened in 2007....Ann Martin's book is only the tip of the iceberg....

Pet food re-calls since 2003..just too many to list....

I'll put this challenge out....

The CEO for Americas Purina division VS Peter Atkins CEO of Natura to sit down in front of cameras and eat a bowl of any of their products taken off the shelf randomly....I know which CEO would accept the challenge...because one actually knows what goes into his product....and makes it to human food standards...

dnk1999
09-10-2009, 10:43 AM
I am no Ann Martin or Dog Food project, truth about pet food , just aninformed Labrador owner .....Me scare people...I don't think so...it's the Purina , Mars, Heinz , and other giants that are feeding this junk to the nations Pets....

SO..... by stating that you are an Informed lab owner, thats where your "facts" come from? Am I an uneducated, ill informed owner because I feed Pro Plan?

I am still waiting to see your hardened evidence of this? A book based on opinions? A T.V. show made for entertainment? Come on now... I am SO sick of hearing you speak your "facts" when all they have been proven to be are opinions

Perhaps You should come back to reality, like the rest of us, and realize that not everything you see on T.V. or read is true!!!!!

Bailey's Mommy
09-10-2009, 11:04 AM
As much as I hate to agree - I actually can't turn a blind eye to what MAY be in dog food. This is why I'm a huge fan of ziwi peak. http://www.ziwipeak.com/nzl/ingredients.shtml



I thought this site was interesting....

http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359

uplander
09-10-2009, 11:08 AM
SO..... by stating that you are an Informed lab owner, thats where your "facts" come from? Am I an uneducated, ill informed owner because I feed Pro Plan?

I am still waiting to see your hardened evidence of this? A book based on opinions? A T.V. show made for entertainment? Come on now... I am SO sick of hearing you speak your "facts" when all they have been proven to be are opinions

Perhaps You should come back to reality, like the rest of us, and realize that not everything you see on T.V. or read is true!!!!!

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/jesse.htm

FOOD NOT FIT FOR A PET
Dr Wendell O. Belfield, D.V.M.

Rendering plants process decomposing animal carcasses, large roadkill and euthanised dogs and cats into a dry protein product that is sold to the pet food industry. One small plant in Quebec, Ontario, renders 10 tons (22,000 pounds) of dogs and cats per week. The Quebec Ministry of Agriculture states that "the fur is not removed from dogs and cats" and that "dead animals are cooked together with viscera, bones and fat at 115° C (235° F) for 20 minutes".

The US Food and Drug Administration's Center for Veterinary Medicine (CVM) is aware of the use of rendered dogs and cats in pet foods, but has stated: "CVM has not acted to specifically prohibit the rendering of pets. However, that is not to say that the practise of using this material in pet food is condoned by the CVM."

Some of these dead pets - those euthanised by veterinarians - already contain pentobarbital before treatment with the denaturing process. According to University of Minnesota researchers, the sodium pentobarbital used to euthanise pets "survives rendering without undergoing degradation". Fat stabilisers are introduced into the finished rendered product to prevent rancidity. Common chemical stabilisers include BHA (butylated hydroxyanisole) and BHT (butylated hydroxytoluene) - both known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction - and ethoxyquin, a suspected carcinogen. Many semi-moist dog foods contain propylene glycol - first cousin to the anti-freeze agent, ethylene glycol, that destroys red blood-cells. Lead frequently shows up in pet foods, even those made from livestock meat and bone meal. A Massachusetts Institute of Technology study, titled "Lead in Animal Foods", found that a nine-pound cat fed on commercial pet food ingests more lead than the amount considered potentially toxic for children.

"Vegetable protein", the mainstay of dry dog foods, includes ground yellow corn, wheat shorts and middlings, soybean meal, rice husks, peanut meal and peanut shells (identified as "cellulose" on pet food labels). These often are little more than the sweepings from milling room floors. Stripped of their oil, germ and bran, these "proteins" are deficient in essential fatty acids, fat-soluble vitamins and antioxidants. "Animal protein" in commercial pet foods can include diseased meat, roadkill, contaminated material from slaughterhouses, faecal matter, rendered cats and dogs and poultry feathers. The major source of animal protein comes from dead-stock removal operations that supply so-called "4-D" animals - dead, diseased, dying or disabled - to "receiving plants" for hide, fat and meat removal. The meat (after being doused with charcoal and marked "unfit for human consumption") may then be sold for pet food.

In 1981, as Martin Zucker and I wrote How to Have a Healthier Dog, we discovered the full extent of negative effects that commercial pet food has on animals. In February 1990, San Francisco Chronicle staff writer John Eckhouse went even further with an expose entitled "How Dogs and Cats Get Recycled into Pet Food."

Eckhouse wrote: "Each year, millions of dead American dogs and cats are processed along with billions of pounds of other animal materials by companies known as renderers. The finished product... tallow and meat meal... serve as raw materials for thousands of items that include cosmetics and pet food." [See sidebar, ''The Dark Side of Recycling," Spring 1990 ElJ.] more

John Anderson -"110 Million Sick Pets?—There are an estimated 55 million dogs and 63 million cats living in American households. Given the appalling condition of most commercial pet foods, it’s a wonder there are any healthy pets walking around anymore. "Nature never designed canine or feline kidneys to handle the volume of impurities that come their way," states veterinarian Al Plechner, DVM, author of Pet Allergies: Remedies For An Epidemic" The result is fatigued, irritated, damaged and deteriorated kidneys after several years of life. Left untreated, the toxic buildup leads to vomiting, loss of appetite, uremic poisoning and death."

Recent studies have shown processed foods to be a factor in increasing numbers of pets suffering from cancer, arthritis, obesity, dental disease and heart disease, comments Dr Wysong. Dull or unhealthy coats are a common problem with cats and dogs and poor diet is usually the cause, according to many veterinarians and breeders. The AAFCO nutrient profiles may play a role here, in the "balanced" nutritional levels they recommend may be inadequate for an individual animal. Life's Abundance is a quality healthy kibbles for dogs and cats that do not use these practice

It is estimated that up to two million companion animals suffer from food allergies. Dr Plechner believes that the commercial pet foods are a primary cause and can contribute to a host of health problems. "Among pets, there is a widespread intolerance of commercial foods," he states. "This rejection can show up either as violent sickness or chronic health problems. It often triggers a hypersensitivity and overreaction to flea and insect bites, pollens, soaps, sprays and environmental contaminants."

Feline urological syndrome, a chronic condition similar to cystitis in humans (characterized by frequent urination with blood in the urine), is an increasingly common and potentially fatal illness in cats. It has been linked to elevated levels of ash and phosphorus, two substances commonly found in commercial pet foods. High iodine levels are seen as a contributing factor for thyroid tumors in cats. "New diseases are being discovered that are linked to ‘100% complete’ diets," states Dr Wysong. These include "polymyopathy (a muscle disorder) from low potassium levels, dilated cardiomyopathy (heart muscle disorder) from low taurine levels, arthritic and skin diseases from acid/base and zinc malnutrition and chronic eczema from essential fatty acid malnutrition," he reports. Given the high possibility that your favorite pet foods may be slowly poisoning your cat or dog, it’s crucial that you find brands you can trust to be animal friendly."

Zman1001
09-10-2009, 11:16 AM
Sidenote: Article written:

Published in the spring 1996 issue of Earth Island Journal
Food not Fit for a Pet
by Wendell O. Belfield DVM

dnk1999
09-10-2009, 11:21 AM
And as previously stated old data .... 13 year old information




"Published in the spring 1996 issue of Earth Island Journal"

dnk1999
09-10-2009, 11:22 AM
Great minds think a like Zman1001

Zman1001
09-10-2009, 11:36 AM
Here is more information that I found on the net. Not saying I believe it all, but I thought it was interesting (whole article at link. I am only picking certain parts of article). Any bold/underline is all mine, not the articles.

Source: http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359

What’s Really in Pet Food

Updated May 2007



(Located in the last sentence under Pet Food Ingredients - Animal Protein)
Because of persistent rumors that rendered by-products contain dead dogs and cats, the FDA conducted a study looking for pentobarbital, the most common euthanasia drug, in pet foods. They found it. Ingredients that were most commonly associated with the presence of pentobarbital were meat-and-bone-meal and animal fat. However, they also used very sensitive tests to look for canine and feline DNA, which were not found. Industry insiders admit that rendered pets and roadkill were used in pet food some years ago. Although there are still no laws or regulations against it, the practice is uncommon today, and pet food companies universally deny that their products contain any such materials. However, so-called “4D” animals (dead, dying, diseased, disabled) were only recently banned for human consumption and are still legitimate ingredients for pet food.

(Located under Marketing Magic)
Ingredient quality claims. A lot of pet foods claim they contain “human grade” ingredients. This is a completely meaningless term — which is why the pet food companies get away with using it. The same applies to “USDA inspected” or similar phrases. The implication is that the food is made using ingredients that are passed by the USDA for human consumption, but there are many ways around this. For instance, a facility might be USDA-inspected during the day, but the pet food is made at night after the inspector goes home. The use of such terms should be viewed as a “Hype Alert.”

uplander
09-10-2009, 11:37 AM
And as previously stated old data .... 13 year old information




"Published in the spring 1996 issue of Earth Island Journal"

How many years ago was the Bible written....?

I know it is hard to believe such things... but dogs and cats go to the renderer's by the tons ... the fat that is removed goes into the Vats named as Un-named Animal Fat and is sold to Pet Food makers....or animal feed makers and even gets into the human food chain...the problem is that sodium pentobarbital to this day is found in pet food....the FDA claims it is not from dead dogs and cats...so where is it coming from....They can not tell you...because they don't know for sure...They claim DNA tests prove it is not from dogs and cats, but also admit dogs and cats are rendered..Double speak....and the cooking process changes DNA, from the rendered to again cooking of the pet food...From horses, to cows, sheep, etc.....if you don't know the source the Fat is called un-named Animal Fat...

Bailey's Mommy
09-10-2009, 11:41 AM
Here is more information that I found on the net. Not saying I believe it all, but I thought it was interesting (whole article at link. I am only picking certain parts of article). Any bold/underline is all mine, not the articles.

Source: http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359

What’s Really in Pet Food

Updated May 2007



(Located in the last sentence under Pet Food Ingredients - Animal Protein)
Because of persistent rumors that rendered by-products contain dead dogs and cats, the FDA conducted a study looking for pentobarbital, the most common euthanasia drug, in pet foods. They found it. Ingredients that were most commonly associated with the presence of pentobarbital were meat-and-bone-meal and animal fat. However, they also used very sensitive tests to look for canine and feline DNA, which were not found. Industry insiders admit that rendered pets and roadkill were used in pet food some years ago. Although there are still no laws or regulations against it, the practice is uncommon today, and pet food companies universally deny that their products contain any such materials. However, so-called “4D” animals (dead, dying, diseased, disabled) were only recently banned for human consumption and are still legitimate ingredients for pet food.

(Located under Marketing Magic)
Ingredient quality claims. A lot of pet foods claim they contain “human grade” ingredients. This is a completely meaningless term — which is why the pet food companies get away with using it. The same applies to “USDA inspected” or similar phrases. The implication is that the food is made using ingredients that are passed by the USDA for human consumption, but there are many ways around this. For instance, a facility might be USDA-inspected during the day, but the pet food is made at night after the inspector goes home. The use of such terms should be viewed as a “Hype Alert.”


That's the site I posted of which I'm a member of.. There are some very interesting things that come from them..

Zman1001
09-10-2009, 11:57 AM
That's the site I posted of which I'm a member of.. There are some very interesting things that come from them..

I knew I had seen that website before, but was not sure which thread it was in, since there are so many hotly debated threads going on.......

Zman1001
09-10-2009, 12:00 PM
How many years ago was the Bible written....?



I bow to the almighty
:thewave

dnk1999
09-10-2009, 12:31 PM
I agree that the bible was written many years ago... How many versions/translations are there?

uplander
09-10-2009, 01:00 PM
I agree that the bible was written many years ago... How many versions/translations are there?

Rendering is not just a problem with the USA...Canada was a big source mentioned in Ann Martin's book Food Pets Die for...and a reason why Champion Pet (Orijen and Acana) went the way of high end foods....Re-calls and scandals can put you out of business fast.....
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/business/story.html?id=d3e7c070-492d-44df-b945-59e40b3a4d97
The 2003 BSE crisis changed the petfood industry forever because ruminant byproducts were not allowed into most countries.

The Muhlenfelds had to lay off half their 60-person workforce two weeks after the crisis broke. And while they have recovered most of the export business they lost, there's always a percentage of consumers who switch to other brands.

That is why I can't understand Purina this past year fooling around with the Pro Plan label.... a blunder of huge proportions....using the same ingredients as their low end foods...

I have no problem with Pro Plan feeders...it's the companies decision to use animal digest and animal fat in a premium food....making it not a premium food any longer...and charging outrageous prices for the PP Selects that now also have those two ingredients.

Bailey's Mommy
09-10-2009, 01:08 PM
I knew I had seen that website before, but was not sure which thread it was in, since there are so many hotly debated threads going on.......


It was this topic - page before.. :D

Slow Hand Luke
09-10-2009, 01:11 PM
IMO
Not everyone that owns a pet of one species or another reads or accepts the Bible.
What you feed your pet is getting to be one of those topics that you really ties people's panties in knot along with politics,religion,illegals and existence of aliens.
Do I believe that someones pet is in my dog or cat's food? The answer is no.
My :2cents:

uplander
09-10-2009, 01:22 PM
IMO
Not everyone that owns a pet of one species or another reads or accepts the Bible.
What you feed your pet is getting to be one of those topics that you really ties people's panties in knot along with politics,religion,illegals and existence of aliens.
Do I believe that someones pet is in my dog or cat's food? The answer is no.
My :2cents:

Most come from shelters....99.9 % of Vets don't let the renderer's take their clients pets....but shelters must due to the volume...all documented in Ann Martin's book..Food Pets Die For...

Here's a downer cow being readied for becoming un-named animal fat and meat and bone meal....
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/dirty-jobs-blown-up-cow.html

and the hide being removed for belts and shoes....
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/dirty-jobs-skinning-a-cow.html

Slow Hand Luke
09-10-2009, 01:55 PM
Most come from shelters....99.9 % of Vets don't let the renderer's take their clients pets....but shelters must due to the volume...all documented in Ann Martin's book..Food Pets Die For...

Here's a downer cow being readied for becoming un-named animal fat and meat and bone meal....
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/dirty-jobs-blown-up-cow.html

and the hide being removed for belts and shoes....
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/dirty-jobs-skinning-a-cow.html

So this supposed scare me? shock me? If everyone really new the half of what went into everything they consumed.............
Nice try and no I do not own a fur coat.

dnk1999
09-10-2009, 02:12 PM
I am still waiting for your response to the comment about the items you use on a daily basis that come from animal fats and the like..... You seem to portray yourself as a know it all about animal fats.......

Bailey's Mommy
09-10-2009, 02:30 PM
My opinion on researching what it’s in our animals food is mind – blowing and if you research what we as humans intake it’s just as exceptionally mind – blowing. They both are equally as repugnant on many levels. Of course we as humans whom are physically able to make the conscientious effort of what we put into our bodies is entirely up to us. We as diligent pet owners can only do what we can by making the foremost decisions available to us for our beloved pets. As a whole many of us have contrasting views on diet and nutrition so let it be that we all are doing what we can and if we weren’t I doubt we would be on this forum…. :2cents: