Why does Nutro sell 10 times more to Diamond acoording to my food dealer who sells both? I use LB puppy Nutro and was going to switch and try Diamond but the dealer told me the selling facts so I stayed with Nutro? Is diamond a secret ? Is Diamond as good as Nutro? Who has used both??? I am looking for advise
Hap

Maybe it's because of the fact that Diamond isn't as big as Nutro. Just in terms of advertisement and where it is located. I'm guessing Diamond is a much smaller company? They don't always have it at pet food stores. Also, I don't think Diamond has puppy food, which I'm sure makes up for a lot of sales for Nutro.

I am in a pet store and we used to sell diamond the benefits of them are that they are half the price of Nutro other than that Nutro was a better all around food. Diamond does make a puppy just for you info.

Diamond is not as readily available as Nutro. I'm still feeding my dog nutro since it's just easier to get.

Originally posted by Hap
Is Diamond as good as Nutro? Who has used both??? I am looking

IMO Diamond is twice the food as Nutro. Nutro used to be a decent food, but no longer. Plus they lie to their customers. I fed Nutro for years and years until 3 years ago when they lied to me about a formula change. I now feed a Diamond product.

Diamond spends ZERO dollars on advertising. Nutro on the other hand spends TONS.

Nutro is at every Petsmart, Petco, and Coastal Farm Supply (Chain feed store in Oregon).

Diamond on the other hand can only be found in independent pet retailers.

Diamond for the money can't be beat.
For 15 cents a pound, you get Omega 3/6, and Chelated Minerals and Vitamins. The ONLY thing I can find to pick out is that they use Chicken By-product Meal in several of their formuals. This is not a huge issue.

Nutro has savvy sales reps, and it sounds like your supplier had been sold :)

All this is brought to you in my meager opinion.

Good Luck!

Originally posted by duckbagger


Nutro has savvy sales reps


Ain't this the truth. Plus they spend a TON in order to be the first dog food you see when you walk through the door.

With my last dog, I believed the hype that Nutro was the best food in the store. So I tried it with cooper....for almost a year I tried various formulas.

I will never feed Nutro again to either my kitty or Cooper. Its twice the price, half the quality and the results are not good. Nutro pays to have that lead spot in the store, and they pay to have those sales people push their food.

At my local independent dealer, who carries Nutro, Iams, Euk, Wellness, Solid Gold and ummmmm Diamond and Premium Edge, they will tell you the PE is the very best and if price is an issue than the Diamond is is great too. They carry Nutro just because people ask for it....not becuase of the quality.

In order to compete with the big guys who do that buy 10 bags get the 11th free, they do a similar thing....they keep track of your purchases online. I do buy kitty's food there. Cooper gets Kirkland L/R, but I can always get the Diamond there if I don't have time to get to Costco.

I am just wondering what you base this on? I am currently feeding Nutro and my puppy is do amazing on it. Her stool is small and she only eats til she is full. I can't say how amazing her coat looks.

Originally posted by Smitty
I am just wondering what you base this on? I am currently feeding Nutro and my puppy is do amazing on it. Her stool is small and she only eats til she is full. I can't say how amazing her coat looks.
As has been said many times before, what works for one dog does not always work for another. If it works for your dog, no need to switch.

I am basing it on what worked for my dog. We were ON nutro for almost a year. His coat was coarse, dull and he had huge flakes of dander, he was sucking his paws and was miserable. Lets see, I tried LB PUp, the Chicken Formula and the Lamb formula. Thus the issues weren't all related to his chicken sensitivity. And lets not even get into what it did to Pooey Foosums coat...or her appetite....and I had her on it several years.

Thats great that it works for you. It works for alot of pets. Not mine though.

Duckbagger, I'm curious where you got your information about Nutro; you say they spend TONS on advertising....where, exactly? Nutro does not advertise. They do, however, employ demonstrators to talk about their products. What about their ingredients do you find bad? Nutro LB puppy has chelated minerals, vitamins, linoleic acid, glucosamine & chondroitin. No by-products, no ground corn.

Kitkat, you say that Nutro is twice the price, and half the quality. As opposed to what? Diamond? I looked at both foods at our local independent dealer, and Nutro LB puppy does cost more- $5.00 more then Diamond LB puppy there. (Not twice as much). There was nothing bad in Nutro's list of ingredients.

I know that we will all feed our dogs what works best for them. I'm just wondering why some people are so opposed to Nutro.
:)

I am with KitKat, Flints coat was tough, skin was VERY flaky, he was constatnly scratching.....he is on diamond now and doing great....Nutro is a good food, just didnt work for Flint

Originally posted by kryss
I'm just wondering why some people are so opposed to Nutro. Just one person's experience... (http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/nutro.html)

Originally posted by kryss
Duckbagger, I'm curious where you got your information about Nutro; you say they spend TONS on advertising....where, exactly? Nutro does not advertise. They do, however, employ demonstrators to talk about their products. What about their ingredients do you find bad? Nutro LB puppy has chelated minerals, vitamins, linoleic acid, glucosamine & chondroitin. No by-products, no ground corn.


Nutro spends BIG BUCKS to make sure that when you walk into Petco and Petsmart that their products or their banners are the first things you see.

I have NEVER seen a representative, other than from Nutro, that have tables set up at Petco or Petsmart that are their handing out coupons and praising the benefits of Nutro. I have never seen any other food brag that with their food you will have less backyard mess to deal with, and have the signs and banners to support it. Nutro hounds breeders and trainers to push their products more than any other major brand as well. I could go on and on, Nutro spends alot of money on advertising.

About the ingredients:

Here is the link to LB Puppy by Nutro:
http://www.nutroproducts.com/ncdoglbpuppy.asp

Here are the issues as I see them:

1.) Corn Gluten Meal: This is a by product of whiskey distilling. Most manufacturers will say that it is an excellent source of carbohydrates. If that is so then why all the rice in this formula?

2.) Wheat Flour: Wheat is never an ingredient that should be found in a pet food. Wheat is the cause of allergies for many animals.

3.) Poultry Fat: Hmmm Is this fat from pidgeons, crows, emus, seag gulls, buzzards, robins? I dunno, do you?

4.) Natural Flavor: This just sounds scary!

5.) Of the first 10 ingredients, only one is a protein source. Six are various types of grains, including rice, corn, wheat. One is natural flavor, and one is poultry fat. Not exactly what I would call an impressive top 10.

6.) By my count 4 of the 23 vitamins and minerals are Chelated. Thats about 17%. I guess that is good enough to advertise Chelated Vitamins and Minerals.

About the price:

Here are the price from Petfood Direct online retailer:

Nutro 40# LB Puppy : 40.99
http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=1&brand%5Fid=14&root%5Fid=&parent%5Fid=&Page=4&mscssid=NL1R5GKK89BD9LHU2PG7QC64XX2J41M4
Daimond 40# LB puppy: 30.99

http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=1&brand%5Fid=4&mscssid=NL1R5GKK89BD9LHU2PG7QC64XX2J41M4

For the money Diamond has many foods beat, including Nutro.

However when I recommend LB puppy foods Nutro always make my list, because they do have a decent formula. But I still think that you can do better (or equivalent) for less money, ie Diamond.

But if you like Nutro and are happy with, by all means keep feeding.

Question about Diamond. I remember reading that it was sold at costco. Does it say Diamond at all on the packaging, or is the Kirkland food an entirely separate brand?

Sorry, nevermind. I found the answer to my question :)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by duckbagger
[B]Nutro spends BIG BUCKS to make sure that when you walk into Petco and Petsmart that their products or their banners are the first things you see.

I have NEVER seen a representative, other than from Nutro, that have tables set up at Petco or Petsmart that are their handing out coupons and praising the benefits of Nutro. I have never seen any other food brag that with their food you will have less backyard mess to deal with, and have the signs and banners to support it. Nutro hounds breeders and trainers to push their products more than any other major brand as well. I could go on and on, Nutro spends alot of money on advertising.

Again, I wonder where you get your information? Nutro has the same number of banners as other companies have. They do NOT advertise. How do you know that they "hound" breeders & trainers? If their food does produce less backyard waste, then what's wrong with them saying so? How do you know that they spend BIG BUCKS to have their products be the first thing you see? (They are not the first thing that I see in our local PetSmart & Petco stores). And you may have NEVER seen a rep from other pet food companies, but yes, they are out there.

I'm not here to argue who has the best food, just curious about your source of information.

He is quite correct about Sales Reps, maybe it differs in other areas, but I avoid going to Petco or Petsmart (if I'm not working) on the weekends because the darn Rep for Nutro is ALWAYS there, cornering people and giving them no other choice than to buy her company's food. Really gets annoying after awhile.

Ok, so twice the price is an exageration (sp).....and certainly if you are buying a 40 lb bag, the price is closer.

However, a 20 lb bag, Nutro goes about 17-19 bucks here, and Diamond goes about 11.

Re the Nutro rep......indeed the most persistent pushy type of rep ever. And the one that I most certainly have seen the most.

Look, you think its great food, and thats fine, as I said before, it does indeed work for many many dogs. And cats. Just not mine.

The Nutro vs Diamond tread has been a rather good one. I have learned and enjoyed reading the responses. I do believe I will give Diamond a try...How do I know how well my dog is doing unless I compare? He has smelly farts now and then is that bad? He has soft stools now and then is that Bad? His coat isn't real soft can it be softer? I dun no....
Hap

That's exactly what I'm thinking Hap. My dog does fine on Nutro, but could another dog food be even better for him? Won't know unless you try :) Going to go with Diamond considering I hear a lot of good things. I won't decide to downgrade dog food or anything for experimental reasons.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by duckbagger
[About the ingredients:

Here are the issues as I see them:

1.) Corn Gluten Meal: This is a by product of whiskey distilling. Most manufacturers will say that it is an excellent source of carbohydrates. If that is so then why all the rice in this formula?

2.) Wheat Flour: Wheat is never an ingredient that should be found in a pet food. Wheat is the cause of allergies for many animals.

3.) Poultry Fat: Hmmm Is this fat from pidgeons, crows, emus, seag gulls, buzzards, robins? I dunno, do you?

4.) Natural Flavor: This just sounds scary!

5.) Of the first 10 ingredients, only one is a protein source. Six are various types of grains, including rice, corn, wheat. One is natural flavor, and one is poultry fat. Not exactly what I would call an impressive top 10.

6.) By my count 4 of the 23 vitamins and minerals are Chelated. Thats about 17%. I guess that is good enough to advertise Chelated Vitamins and Minerals.


I'm enjoying this thread as well; it's interesting to read what other people have to say.

About the issues listed-
1.) Corn Gluten Meal is the soft center of the corn, a good source of protein. (60%)

2.)Wheat flour, while some dogs may be allergic to wheat, (as well as other things), wheat flour is a highly digestable source of complex carbohydrates. Actually, wheat flour is a grain source least likely to cause allergies in dogs.

3.)Are robins considered poultry? Seagulls??

4.)Natural flavor is scary? Is unnatural flavor better?

5.) The first ingredient ia always lamb meal or chicken meal. Since it is meal, it always stays the first ingredient.

Originally posted by kryss

About the issues listed-
1.) Corn Gluten Meal is the soft center of the corn, a good source of protein. (60%)

2.)Wheat flour, while some dogs may be allergic to wheat, (as well as other things), wheat flour is a highly digestable source of complex carbohydrates. Actually, wheat flour is a grain source least likely to cause allergies in dogs.

3.)Are robins considered poultry? Seagulls??

4.)Natural flavor is scary? Is unnatural flavor better?

5.) The first ingredient ia always lamb meal or chicken meal. Since it is meal, it always stays the first ingredient.



1.) I would rather protein in pet food comes from meat, not from corn.

2.) Virtually every brand of food, makes a wheat free formula. If wheat allergy is not very prevalent, then why all the formulas out that are wheat free?

3.) Well I guess seagulls and robins to my knowledge were never domesticate for meat or eggs. The point was, the food should list a specific kind of fat such as Chicken or duck.

4.) Natural Flavor also should be specified as natural chicken flavor, or natural beef flavor, or natural lamb flavor.

5.) Better foods will not have 6 grains in their top then and often time they have more than one meat protein source.

Nutro is not a BAD food in my opinion. It was actually what I fed my pup for 8 months, because a rep sold me on it :D. But there are BETTER foods for my purposes and I listed the reasons why. If these items are of no consequence to you then so be it.

I still feel that for the $$ you cannot beat Diamond, especially when it comes to Nutro.

Originally posted by duckbagger
[5.) Better foods will not have 6 grains in their top then and often time they have more than one meat protein source.

Nutro is not a BAD food in my opinion. It was actually what I fed my pup for 8 months, because a rep sold me on it :D. But there are BETTER foods for my purposes and I listed the reasons why. If these items are of no consequence to you then so be it.

I still feel that for the $$ you cannot beat Diamond, especially when it comes to Nutro. [/B]

I find what you have to say quite interesting. :)

I actually use both Nutro & Diamond; Nutro for my baby, and Diamond for an older lab that I am fostering. (Long story, but the food came with her.) When I read your posts about the food, I got curious, and started looking into it. I also work for a local animal rescue group, and I am in different pet shops, (Petco, PetSmart, and some independents) every weekend when we do open adoptions. Over the years, I have talked to many breeders, trainers, pet owners, and even Nutro reps. (Who, by the way, in my area at least, are all middle-aged housewives and a couple of senior gentlemen. Not in the least bit pushy, or what I would call "savvy".)
Anyway, here are the first ingredients for Nutro Puppy Lamb & Rice:Lamb Meal, Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Rice Gluten, Ground Rice, Dried Beet Pulp, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Natural Flavor

Here are the first ingredients for Diamond LB Puppy Lamb & Rice ("lamb" as a first ingredient is precooked weight, and goes down the list after cooking.):Lamb, lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, oatmeal, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), beet pulp, egg product, natural flavor, flaxseed, fish meal, brewers dried yeast

As you can see, Diamond has five grains in their top 10, Nutro has 4. Diamond also has corn gluten meal, (Nutro Lamb & Rice doesn't.) Diamond has "natural flavor". The ingredients in both products are very close. Diamonds' prices, however, are much better then Nutro, so I can see that as a good reason to go with Diamond....not because the ingredients are so much better then Nutros.

Good discussions here. :)

Originally posted by kryss

Anyway, here are the first ingredients for Nutro Puppy Lamb & Rice:Lamb Meal, Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Rice Gluten, Ground Rice, Dried Beet Pulp, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Natural Flavor

Here are the first ingredients for Diamond LB Puppy Lamb & Rice ("lamb" as a first ingredient is precooked weight, and goes down the list after cooking.):Lamb, lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, oatmeal, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), beet pulp, egg product, natural flavor, flaxseed, fish meal, brewers dried yeast

As you can see, Diamond has five grains in their top 10, Nutro has 4. Diamond also has corn gluten meal, (Nutro Lamb & Rice doesn't.) Diamond has "natural flavor". The ingredients in both products are very close. Diamonds' prices, however, are much better then Nutro, so I can see that as a good reason to go with Diamond....not because the ingredients are so much better then Nutros.



Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Rice Gluten, Ground Rice. This is called ingredient splitting and is very very deceptive. What happens is the rice (grains) actually end up out weighing the Lamb meal which is the first ingredient.

While Diamond has whole grain brown rice, rice flour listed in the first 5, its more than likely actually less than what the Nutro has.

Originally posted by labby
Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Rice Gluten, Ground Rice. This is called ingredient splitting and is very very deceptive. What happens is the rice (grains) actually end up out weighing the Lamb meal which is the first ingredient.

While Diamond has whole grain brown rice, rice flour listed in the first 5, its more than likely actually less than what the Nutro has.

That's very interesting; I never heard of ingredient splitting. Do you remember where you got that information? Especially the part about the rice outweighing the lamb meal. I would like to learn more about that. Thanks.

do a google search on it. The information is out there.

Originally posted by labby
Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Rice Gluten, Ground Rice. This is called ingredient splitting and is very very deceptive. What happens is the rice (grains) actually end up out weighing the Lamb meal which is the first ingredient.

While Diamond has whole grain brown rice, rice flour listed in the first 5, its more than likely actually less than what the Nutro has.

I did do a google search, thanks. You learn something new every day. Diamond also lists brewers rice, along with the whole grain brown rice, and rice flour....so I guess this is considered ingredient splitting?

Not to the degree that Nutro did it. Diamond has other ingredients between the splitting.

So it's OK to split an ingredient, as long as you list other things in between?

There are different degrees of splitting is what I am saying. Every pet owner has to make their own decisions on what to feed and what is important to them and what isn't. You need to make your own decisions as I have as to what to feed and what not to.

There are many reasons why I personally do not like Nutro, will not feed it and will not recommend it. Those reasons were due to many years of researching various foods and their ingredients. Everyone need to do research as to what the labels mean and make their own decisions.

There are different degrees of splitting?? Now I really am confused.
I guess I will continue to do my own research, and then decide which is best. From what I've read so far, both seem to be fine products, with Diamond being less costly. If I ever felt the need to swich foods, I would have no problem switching to Diamond.

Labby,

Thanks for the great information. I just bought my first bag of puppy food, Blue Puppy food. www.bluebuff.com I am so thankful that you mentioned splitting, and explained it so I understood what you were saying.

I have looked for Blue and Petsmart has been out of it everytime I have gone to the store. They had just gotten a shipment of it, so I bought the medium sized bag and ordered the 30lb bag.

When we bring our puppy home on 2/8, I will take a week to switch her from Eukanuba to Blue.

Elinor

I read some of this thread, and I to was pushed into buying Nutro, but I have always been a fan of Sience diet.

Now that I have compared the ingredeants, I see SD has chicken by products as do most of the other foods out there.Even Iams,Ukabena,Purina,and a few other top foods.
What the heck is chicken by product?The Nutro sales rep said it is beaks,feet,internals,and any other part of the chicken they can't sell to humans.

Is this really as bad as it sounds, and if so why do the top foods use it?

What is chicken meal then as well?Is it the same meats they sell to us, or is it just the meats that are not worth selling?

My pup seems to like the Nutro, but I have noticed her coat isn't as soft as it was when I picked her up from the breeder who was feeding the puppies Puppy Chow LB.

How about red die, I see it in most foods, especialy in Purina?Is this bad for dogs?

My two cats wouldn't eat the Nutro the vet sold me, I went to SD for them.

Thanks, Benny

Yes he is correct about the by-products. Your cats didn't eat becasue it made them chew and most cats don't like to chew their food. If you noticed it had larger chunks then most other cat foods. What you have to remember is that not every food is for every dog. You have to find one that works for you and your animals. The best thing for you is that you are looking for something other than pc.
Where in MN are you?

Originally posted by Benny
I see SD has chicken by products, as do most of the other foods out there. Even Iams, Ukabena, Purina, and a few other top foods. What the heck is chicken by product? The Nutro sales rep said it is beaks, feet, internals, and any other part of the chicken they can't sell to humans.

Is this really as bad as it sounds, and if so why do the top foods use it?


Because it’s CHEAP!!!

Originally posted by Benny
What is chicken meal then as well?

Chicken meal is the rendered product of clean flesh and skin with or without bone, from the parts of a whole chicken. Heads, feet, feathers & intestines are omitted.

Rendered meat, when done in a responsible manner, is considered to be the single best source of protein in kibble

Originally posted by Benny
How about red die, I see it in most foods, especially in Purina?

It has no place in dog food!! You won’t see it in premium feeds.

Originally posted by Benny
My pup seems to like the Nutro, but I have noticed her coat isn't as soft as it was when I picked her up from the breeder who was feeding the puppies Puppy Chow LB.


How old is she now? Their hair doesn’t stay as soft when they grow out of puppy hood.

Originally posted by Benny
My two cats wouldn't eat the Nutro the vet sold me, I went to SD for them.


Bad move! Can/have you tried a different flavor of Nutro?

Jack is 7months old and has always been on Nutro ... its worked fine for us, and we will stay with it ... like everyone else says... go with what works for u... we eat Nutro LB puppy mixed with Nutro Lamb and Rice for puppy and reg Nutro puppy... he eats well.. has good stools and loves it.. i do supplement an Omega 3-6-9 capsule and sprinkle flax seed on food,, his coat looks great, and he doesnt itch any more than i do in this cold PA weather/wind

Originally posted by Elinor


When we bring our puppy home on 2/8, I will take a week to switch her from Eukanuba to Blue.



Oh I bet you are excited! Double check with the breeder (if you are getting a pup from a breeder) as to what they want you to feed. Some are pretty picky about what they want their pups on and since they are the ones guaranteeing the pup you should stay with their recommendations.

Once the pup gets to the age where you switch to adult food, most breeders loosen up a bit more on what you can feed. So always consult with your breeder first.

Originally posted by Benny
[B]I read some of this thread, and I to was pushed into buying Nutro, but I have always been a fan of Sience diet.

If you like SD and your dog does well on it, then feed it. Just because I or anyone else doesn't like SD doesn't mean it won't work for your dog.

Now that I have compared the ingredeants, I see SD has chicken by products as do most of the other foods out there.Even Iams,Ukabena,Purina,and a few other top foods.
What the heck is chicken by product?The Nutro sales rep said it is beaks,feet,internals,and any other part of the chicken they can't sell to humans.

Is this really as bad as it sounds, and if so why do the top foods use it?

No this isn't as bad as it sounds. Poultry By-Product - Clean parts of slaughtered poultry, such as heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, feet, abdomen, intestines, and heads and must not contain feces or foreign matter except that which is unavoidable and then only in trace amounts.



What is chicken meal then as well?Is it the same meats they sell to us, or is it just the meats that are not worth selling?

Chicken Meal - chicken which has been ground or otherwise reduced in particle size.


How about red die, I see it in most foods, especialy in Purina?Is this bad for dogs?

I wouldn't feed a food with dye in it.

Labby,

Great advice to check with the breeder. I have already done that. She is okay with me switching dog food brands slowly. I also checked with our vet who checked the ingredients and said it looked great.

I did the soak test. I put 1/4 cup Eukanuba in a glass and added 1/8 cup water...the food swelled. I put 1/4 cup Blue in a glass and added 1/8 cup Blue and it didn't swell, it started to dissolve into a mush. What that means, I don't reall know. I can tell you that it smelled pretty good to me. I wonder if it will help a lab, prone to bloat , to not have it's food swell up? Anyone know?

Elinor

It means feed the Blue. LOL. You want a food that doesn't swell and breaks apart when wet.

My dog (7 years) gets pretty bad gas from the top shelf type Purina, so I'm thinking it's the food and I'll switch him to Diamond. Is this correct thinking the food causes bad (and I mean BAD) gas?

Well the puppy is only 8-1/2 weeks old, her coat was nice and soft when we got her,Now it is a little rough, but still is shiny.

So far she is starting to eat better, she seems to like the Nutri and her stools are ok.Have not seen any squirts yet:)

She was full of worms when I had the vet check her two days after I picked her up, the guy I bought her from didn't have a clue.
I ripped him a new a&& h*** for not worming the pups.
My research showed the Dame can actualy give round worms to a puppie at birth, the little buggers can also live in the soil for two or more years.

She got a clean bill of health other wise.


I think I will stay with the Nutri for a little while, then maybe find some Diamond to try.
I have not seen this Blue brand here in Minnesota, but then again I just started looking for foods with good ingredeants.



Smitty,,, I live in Coon Rapids, MN. a Northern suburb of Minneapolis.

I live near a dam and recreational park so I will be walking Mandy there a lot this spring.Can't wait to see here reaction to all the Canada geese there.


Well off to the training threads, Benny