I realized this weekend that my dog points (I didnt know what it was until this weekend) - but she's not a pointer because she is solid black (although she was a rescue so she could be mixed with one). Are there Labradors that point?

Soxey points and her dad, Smokey, pointed as well.

Chresty

Some labs point, some don't. Some that do are consistent, others aren't. For some dogs it's just a puppy thing, at least judging anecdotally for myself and a few friends of mine who've had labs. It's not quite the same as with the true pointing breeds, from what I understand.

Some people think it's special and encourage it from their lab, others are appalled by the idea of a pointing lab and discourage it.

A few breeders claim to breed for it, but (again, from what I understand) the jury still seems to be out as to whether it's a trait that can be consistently bred for from a lab.

Originally posted by gottaluvalab
It's not quite the same as with the true pointing breeds, from what I understand.

I agree completely. With both of mine, one front paw is place in front of the other, they lengthen their bodies as far as possible, one back leg is in front of the other, and their tales extend completely straight, in alignment with their backs.

However, they do NOT pull one paw up, as regular pointers do. So it isn't the same look.

Christy

Every sporting breed dawg points. It's an instinct that's more developed in some breed than others, and in some dawgs more so than others of the same breed.

Analyze what a "Point" is. It's no more than the interrupted step of a predator that has seen or scented it's quarry and knows from experience that if it applies more pursuit pressure at that moment it will flush the quarry out of it's reach.

Are there pointing big cats like lions, tigers and leapords? Of course there are. Just watch some of the Nature or Natl Geographic shows that depict the big cats hunting. How about foxes, coyotes and wolves? Yep ... same thing ... they will often "point" just before springing into final pursuit.

There are Labrador Kennels that have done a superb marketing job with their "Pointing Labs". They would have you believe that their bloodlines are the only true pointers among the Labs. Poppycock! Look here for the organization of brilliant marketers!

;)

http://www.theapla.com/

And by the way ... my yellar dawg Cappy "points" ... he was encouraged to do so as a pup and I've hunted him with my Llewellin Setter (pointing breed) and they made a good working pair together. To this day they both point pigeons, doves and other birds in the backyard as if "practicing their craft".

good to know . . .since i dont know who her parents were i always wonder if she is all lab or not. i looked it up on the internet and a bunch of those 'pointing labrador' breeders are here in colorado. but that doesnt really mean anything.

she does the typical pointing (i think?) where her body and tail straighten & she lifts & bends her front leg and leans forward and stares up at something. i never even noticed but my mom has pointers & it made me think about it & i noticed that she does it a bunch.

not much hunting going on in my backyard so she will have to be a robin & squirrel pointer.

Java points birds and squirrels in the back yard, too. She picks up her right front paw, but her tail doesn't straighten out completely. She's 8 months old and we don't know what her mix is, but we think Golden or maybe Setter. She is mostly black (a little longer than most labs with a little bit of wave) with a few white hairs on her chest and under her chin.

As often is the case...

What Jim said.:cool:

(What I meant by "it's not quite the same as with the true pointing breeds" was that it's not as consistently apparent throughout the breed.)

You should here retriever club people go at it about whether labs "should" point or not. What fun.:popcorn: It's a good show.

Soxey will point at the geese flying overhead, but she really loves to point at chipmunks. I'm not sure why, except that they scurry from tree to tree.

Funny story. One time, Smokey sited and pointed a chipmunk. He stood there for about an hour. The next day, during play, he went back to the tree for another hour. He did this about four days running. The funny part is, the chipmunk went down the back of the tree and under the heat oil tank about 3 minutes after Smokey first spotted it. He never saw it actually leave the tree, so I guess he assumed it was just waiting up there for him.

Poor Smokey. He never was the brightest crayon in the box, but he was great for a laugh.

Christy

Brawnwyn ... Smokey is, what old pointer guys like me will describe as a "rock solid pointer." I've had Dawgs that were rock solid and steady to wing and shot almost to a fault. In other words, they would not move from that pointing position no matter what unless and until the handler released them with a verbal command.

A case in point ... In the early 60s, I was training an Elhew pointer. A lemon and white dawg that was about 18 months old and "rock solid" beyond description. When hunting heavy cover we often attached small cow bells to their collar so that the absence of the bell tinkling told us the dawg was on point out of our sight.

As fate would have it, the pointer went into an alder thicket and soon after the tinkling stopped. We searched that thicket for hours and never could find the dawg. We even searched via searchlights after dark that day and went back several more days after but never did find that dawg. A very sad affair.

But wait, there's more to this story. A little over a year later I was training an English Setter bitch. We happened to be near the same area where I had lost the Elhew Pointer. As I ducked under some low hanging limbs, there in a small opening was the STILL POINTING BUT BLEACHED WHITE SKELETON of that pointer! And a few feet in front of him were the bleached white skeletons of a small covey of quail. Talk about tight sitting quail and a rock solid dawg! :cool: ;) :p:

That is, without a doubt, the most amazing story I've ever heard.

I now feel kind of bad that I laughed so much at Smokey over that incident. He was just such a goofy dog and I loved him so much, so that memory of the chipmunk never fails to make me smile.

Smokey was never trained to hunt, although he went along on his share of hunting trips. He seemed to have a very strong, inherent instinct. He was a blockhead, so he was huge (about 110 lbs at 7 years of age) but he never lost that kind of gangly amble that puppies have.

His progeny, Soxey, has inherited the looks of her lean, yellow mama, but the instincts of her dad. She never takes her eye off those geese as they are flying over. Not for a second.

Christy

I also think it's not just a "preditory instinct"... it's a way of communicating. Dog's are naturaly a pack animal: what a wonderfull way of silently saying to your pack members "looky-heeer-wat-iee-got!"

Oooo, here's another one:

Hey Nevada Jim,

Isn't Cappy one of those marketed "Pointing Labs" ? :D

Brawnwyn ... Oh No! I thought surely you'd know that was an "Ole Hunter's Tale"! Not a word of it was true but always makes for a great story. :brow:

duckbagger ... nope, Cappy is from Sunnyview Labs in Salem, OR and they definitely do not market there pups as PL's.

Cappy's pointing traits were simply instinctive that I saw at 7 weeks of age and enhanced them by treating him just as if he was a pointing breed pup as far as upland training was comcerned.

This was Cappy locked up tight on a small covey of chukar in the desert 2 years ago just before he turned three, and he still has that same intensity ... he absolutely quivers all over in anticipation. Incidentally, Cappy points by sight AND scent which is a test of whether a retriever is really pointing or merely "standing game", IMHO.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/057003.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=57003&c=500&z=1)

Originally posted by Nevada Jim
Brawnwyn ... Oh No! I thought surely you'd know that was an "Ole Hunter's Tale"! Not a word of it was true but always makes for a great story. :brow:

I'm not an old enough hunter to know it. :cry2:

Of course, now I'm going to tell it to everyone I know, and I'm going to adopt a very serious tone when doing so. :floor

Christy

Nevada Jim - love the Ole' Hunters tale!!! I didn't realize until the end that it wasn't true! LOL

I LOVE that picture of Cappy. He's such a beautiful dawg. Just love seeing pictures of him and hearing about the hunts.

Nevada Jim,

I knew Cappy was from Sunnyview Labs....

I have visited their kennel before as a perspective buyer (a few years ago).

I sure did get an earfull about pointing labs out of N. Dakota lines, that have taken 20 years to get to place that they are now, and that I could get one right now today.

No Joke, this was before I ever bought my first lab or knew the difference from working retriever and a meat dog. Their sales pitch has always rung like the school tardy bell in my ears.

No doubt though that Cappy is a dawg.

Mannnnn.... I wish I could have gotten a nice full body shot like that (Jim + Cappy) wile we were hunting pointing dogs...

For the last year my hubby has been hunting with folks that run flushers... so he's opted to change Gus into one too. When I'm running him (not very often) he still locks it up, but he knows my old man wants him to flush (how confusing :rolleyes: !!! ).

There's just something so much more gratifieing about a quality pointer(in my opinion) than a sloppy flusher--- *** this would be one of our perminant marital impasses :D ***

Sorry for my ignorance, but could somebody tell me exactly what a meat dog is?

labaggie ...it is a very rare strain of a Lab that's trained to cruise the better quality grocery stores seeking out the finer cuts of beef. it's a genetic thing that dates back almost to the origin of the breed.

You see, there are: 1) test/trial dawgs, 2) hunting dawgs and 3) meat dawgs. Sometimes the 2nd and 3rd catagories are combined into one and that becomes what is known as a versatile dawg. 1/2 hunter and 1/2 meat dawg. :p:

Carrie ... full body action like this? ...

http://www.hunt101.com/img/061748.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=61748&c=500&z=1)

oh, ps ... there's a 4th catagoryof both Labs and pointing breeds ... they are more obscure but are known as TCBY dawgs. Here's a pic of two of them grazing ...
http://www.hunt101.com/img/064566.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=64566&c=500&z=1)

OMG - do they have bibs on?!! that is too funny!!!:floor

Of Course they have bibbs on! You don't really think I'd allow my two "sons" to eat at the table with us without bibbs, do you? I'll have you know that Llewellin Setters are even more prolific droolers than Labs are (if that's possible) when they see some of their favorite foods or treats.

Not only do Cappy and Duke wear their own bibbs ... they are MONOGRAMED with their individual names, I'll have you know. Wouldn't want to get them mixed up. :p:

Although Duke's face can't be seen in this pic ... his name appears on his bibb. Capppy's name doesn't show on his. This pic was last month on my 62nd B-day and the boys were both giving me a lil kiss. (blush) ;)

http://www.hunt101.com/img/065860.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=65860&c=500&z=1)

You is a pretty hooty guy!

When we cook salmon on the grill, Bentley's entire mouth turns all foamy. The first time it happened, I though he was dying. Turns out, he was just awash in anticipation...."MAYBE a piece will fall through the grill right into my mouth!"

OMG the bibs are too funny!!
so did they get some of that cake too?
also, i noticed they are sitting in the same place in both pics - are those their official seats at the table?
and what are they eating? eggs?
:D

Don't your kids sit in the same chairs all the time? Mine do.

Eggs?

You mean you don't have TCBY Yogurt ice cream cake for your dawgs on their birthdays and for all other family members too?

Sheesh ... that borders on abuse! :rolleyes:

oh, ice cream cake - i seeeee . . . .we havent had any b-days yet with belle, but i will definitely go that route when we do!

no chairs for us - we're young & just bought our first house - no dining room table yet (looking on ebay for a nice old victorian one every day though!) but when we do get one belle will definitely have her own chair.
:p:

Great pics Nevada Jim!!!!!

Meat Dog: Retriever that picks up downed game with no particular style or scheudle.

Meat dogs are praised for bring back the dead duck even if it takes 15 minutes, or if it comes back with a missing head or wing. Their purpose is to put meat on the grill.

Cappy is not a meat dog :D