I posted about Sprockets update in the General Forum, but I have questions about his food and supplements so I thought I would post my questions here as well.

Sprocket came to us very underweight. He is now 13 weeks and 13 pounds. We got him at 11 weeks, he was 10 pounds. They were feeding him some unknown brand of food. We started him on Wellness Large Breed Puppy Dry and Can food. The vet told me today that we really need to switch to Nutro or Eukanuba because its higher in calories. He also said that can food can actually make them loose weight. Here I was feeding him can food for some additional calories. Now, I know from my research on dog foods that Nutro and Eukanuba are not the best choices and that is why we settled on Wellness. Here I thought I was doing the very best for my dog! We are not switching, but I just wanted to see what you all thought about this advice from the vet.

We have also been supplementing with coconut and fish oils for some additional fat and coat/joint health. When I told him this he looked at me like I had three heads and kind of chuckled. Like he was saying to himself "oh, great, another one of THOSE people!' He said it was probably OK, but I was putting him at risk for pancreatitis with the extra fat.

When we got Sprocket he was pretty sick...underweight, pneumonia, vomiting etc....I am just trying to do the very best I can for him to ensure that he has the best, healthiest life possible. I thought I was doing ok, but man, the vet made me feel like a real dope today.

And how is Sprocket doing? I think that would be the best indication of the merits of how you are feeding your dog.

Is Sprocket gaining weight? Looking good? Good energy, poops, etc? If so, contrary to what your vet says, you are on the right track. Wellness is a wonderful food! Most vets will recommend Iams, Purina, Hill's, etc... not because they're good foods, per se, but those foods are what vets know and sell. By buying the food your vet recommends from your vet, your vet is making more money.

Vet's actually don't get training in dog nutrion at vet school, so remember that the next time your vet rolls his eyes at you when he talks about food. His opinion on food is probably just as informed as YOUR opinion on food, and I would bet you probably know more from personal research than he does. You hire the vet for medical advice, not nutrional advice.

I just thought I would add that a very successful, exceedingly busy and quite large, Vet Clinic nearby sells and recommends Wellness brand pet foods!

We started him on Wellness Large Breed Puppy Dry and Can food. The vet told me today that we really need to switch to Nutro or Eukanuba because its higher in calories.

Well, I hate to spoil the party but Sprocket's vet is correct. The Wellness Large Breed Puppy dry puppy food is only 366 kcal/cup and Eukanuba Puppy Growth is 462 kcal/cup. I didn't look at Nutro because I'm not a fan and they have so many formulas.

If you want to stick with the Wellness brand then why not feed Wellness Super 5 Mix Just for Puppy, 450 kcal/cup and it doesn't have as much fish in it as the Lg. Breed.

I also agree with him that you are feeding your puppy a lot of oil. I would skip the coconut oil for now. The health of his joints will be determined by his genes and weight. There is no supplement that will change how his joints will turn out. The best you can do is to feed him a proper diet, don't let him get overweight and don't force or overdue exercise. Joint supplements do not prevent problems, they are used to relieve pain.

Is Sprocket gaining weight? Looking good? Good energy, poops, etc? If so, contrary to what your vet says, you are on the right track. Wellness is a wonderful food! Most vets will recommend Iams, Purina, Hill's, etc... not because they're good foods, per se, but those foods are what vets know and sell. By buying the food your vet recommends from your vet, your vet is making more money.

I think the vets also recommend certain foods because they have seen many dogs and multiple generations of dogs doing good on it. With the exception of prescription dog food, most vets don't sell dog food, at least in my area, in any type of large quantity where they are making money off of it. People recommend what they would feel comfortable feeding their own dog.

As far as the original question, you have to decide what is best for your dog and what works. If the Wellness is working and your dog is a healthy weight, then I would probably stick with it or if your pup is thin then switch within the wellness brand to a higher calorie per cup blend.

It sounds like you have really worked at getting your pup healthy and that it commendable. As far as the supplements/oils go, how much are you feeding?

Doppler is correct in that supplements can help the coat and add some nutrition, but they can not change joint development that is dependent on genetics and to a certain extent the environmental factors such as over stressing joints by running the pup, jumping, etc. Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for all the input, it is much appreciated!

Well, after the vet said to stop feeding Wellness, they handed me a "Puppy Pack" with, you guessed it, Eukanuba Puppy Food Samples in it. Not sure if they get a kick back from Eukanuba, but when I read the ingredients there were a lot of things on there that I have recently learned to avoid.

As far as his weight...yes he is gaining. We've only had him since July 3rd and the first week he was very sick with vomiting and pneumonia so I don't really count that week as a week where he was capable of gaining weight. He was 10 lbs when we got him and he is now 13 pounds. So if you figure that he really has only been well enough to gain for a little over a week, well I figure that is pretty good! BUT, you can still see his ribs and his hip bones, so I feel like we still have a way to go. The vet said he's about 4-5 pounds under weight. I know all pups grow at their own pace, but from what I have seen here, a lot of pups his age are pushing the 20 lb mark...so maybe he could stand to gain even more...I don't know.

He is active and playful and very puppy like!

As far as the oils, we are only giving him 1/4 tsp of fish (w/vit E in it) and 1/2 tsp of coconut per day. Coconut in the am and Fish in the pm. Is that too much? I know you can't change genetics, but I just want to give him the very best start, since his start was really rough it seems. I just felt that he needed a little extra TLC since he was sick so young, his coat is not that great etc.

The reason the large breed puppy formula is lower in calories is to prevent the puppy from growing too quickly, as I mentioned in another thread. Too-fast growth can lead to bone and joint problems as the puppy gets bigger.

I don't feed puppy food at all, except during weaning. Once they are eating dry food on their own without any problems, they go straight to adult food that is 368 kcal/cup, and 26% protein and 16% fat.

He seems to prefer my older dogs Wellness Super 5 Mix over his puppy food...should I just let them both have that instead of trying to keep him from eating the other?

He seems to prefer my older dogs Wellness Super 5 Mix over his puppy food...should I just let them both have that instead of trying to keep him from eating the other?

No...he still needs LB puppy food and I would not give any supplements to a puppy at this point.

Many breeders have done great with their dogs with Eukunuba LB puppy food. At around 7-8 months you could switch him to the same as your other dog eats.

It's not going to hurt anything to let him eat the adult food.

Please..Please follow what you have been doing.... you don't want rapid growth...

You did your research and already know more than your Vet...
Feed the Wellness Lg. breed puppy....

and get a new Vet ! The mineral level in Wellness Lg. breed puppy is just about perfect...and well researched !

Any Vet to recommend NUTRO with all the quality squawks and recent cat food recalls is a poor judge of Pet Food....IMO

Uplander...I've never been 100% happy with the current vet, however it is the only one in our area that is a 24/7 vet, which I like because for whatever reason my animals always need urgent care on sundays and late nights, lol. I often thought about looking for a holistic vet and just use the 24/7 place for emergencies only. Last week they told me that Sprocket "looked fine" after a quick looking over when I brought him in for frequent peeing. They didn't bother with a urine test or culture because he was already on antibiotics. I felt very rushed. And now they make me feel dumb for feeding him wellness and using oil supplements. So you pegged these vets for sure.

I would look for a different vet, and only use that one for after hour emergencies..

Well, I spent the afternoon looking up other vets in the area. Lo and behold...there is another 24/7 vet about 5 minutes from me that I never knew of! So we have an appt in three weeks, when Sprocket is due for his next vaccine. We will check her out and see how we like her. I can't believe I never knew about the place. We've been driving 20 minutes in the other direction for years, when we have a place right down the road!! Duh!!

Good for you (and Sprocket!) :)

Good luck with the new vet. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about making your primary vet be the E-Vet Clinic. It's good to know where the closest is, but I would rather find a vet I click with out of ALL THE VETS in my area available to me, than limit it to those with 24/7 care.

Just an fyi, being on antibiotics will cause a false negative in the urine culture, so they were right not to do one anyways and charge you for it.

Thats good to know, Squeaksmom, thank you. But you see, if they would have just communicated that to me, then I would have felt more comfortable about it. It is not the sole reason I am looking to change. There is a whole list of things that I just didn't feel comfortable about.

Thanks all. I will let you know how it goes with the new vet.

I was under the impression you were giving the oil to get rid of his flakey skin, not for joint support. Feeding a good food - I would not supplement for joints. For skin, it is a temporary thing (just like the ACV I mention in your other thread) and would be stopped once skin looks good. (usually a couple of weeks)

I would also still be testing the urine as I mention in your other thread. If there is a UTI you do not want to ignore it for weeks until you go to the new vet.

A basic urinalysis or culture can be done about 3-5 days after finishing meds (to allow the meds to leave the system). I usually do a recheck (to be sure UTI is cleared up) 3 days after meds.

Just because the meds he was on did not stop the urine issue does not mean there is not a UTI. It could have been the wrong med for the type of bacteria he has, if any.

Hi Patty...well, the main reason I was giving the oil was for the flaky skin, but I had read on here and some other places as well that the oils can benefit the joints too. That was not my main concern though. I didn't realize that the idea was to only give the oil temporarily. I was kind of under the impression, from this board, that it was a daily supplementation kind of thing that was beneficial for the dog. Just like my kids and myself all take fish oil daily as well as Vitamin D3 and Probiotics. Just for good health maintenance. I guess I mistakenly thought that is how they were being used. I figured if it benefited the joints as well as the coat than it was worth giving.

So, just to clarify, nobody here uses the oils as health maintenance/support, only temporary health support for acute type things like skin condition flare ups etc?

I take fish oil everyday and so does my dog, good stuff.

So, just to clarify, nobody here uses the oils as health maintenance/support, only temporary health support for acute type things like skin condition flare ups etc?

My dog, Rolph, gets fish oil for his joints. Does your new pup have bad joints?

Fish Oils and Omega 3's have many benefits. I did a quick search and this link is helpful but there is a lot out there to read if you look.

http://ezinearticles.com/?7-Fish-Oil-Benefits-Proven-by-Research&id=415032

No bad joints that I know of, not yet anyway. I'm giving the oils for coat, but thought if it benefited the joints as well (preventative) then that is great.

I do give my girls 3V caps skin & coat formula & extra virgin coconut oil gelcaps dailey. A few months ago I started the coconut oil and probably started giving Molly the 3V Caps about 6-7 months of age...my vet recommended them because of the yeasty ears she was having continously and thought they'd be a great help to her.

Thanks for your input...so it looks like some do and some don't ;)

fish oil has anti imflamatory properties so its good for dogs w/arthritis....

Hi Patty...well, the main reason I was giving the oil was for the flaky skin, but I had read on here and some other places as well that the oils can benefit the joints too. That was not my main concern though. I didn't realize that the idea was to only give the oil temporarily. I was kind of under the impression, from this board, that it was a daily supplementation kind of thing that was beneficial for the dog. Just like my kids and myself all take fish oil daily as well as Vitamin D3 and Probiotics. Just for good health maintenance. I guess I mistakenly thought that is how they were being used. I figured if it benefited the joints as well as the coat than it was worth giving.

So, just to clarify, nobody here uses the oils as health maintenance/support, only temporary health support for acute type things like skin condition flare ups etc?

I'm sorry. didn't mean to say that oils are always used temporarily.

For a dog with chronic coat problems or joint issues it could be used daily.

Or just as a good supplement but I would not do that till one year of age.

I don't supplement pups with anything but Vit. C for their first year. Unless I have a problem like flakey skin, etc.

Fish oil is also beneficial to the heart, kidneys and for arthritis. It can be given as high as 1000mg/10 lbs of weight. But I would not do this for a pup unless there was a need for it.

If you are not sure what to do, call and talk with your vet.

Others may do things differently. The above is JMO.