New here, first real question. I'll have a very high octane lab joining the fam around the end of the year. I want to feed him quality stuff, I read somewhere online that the meat based foods are best and that dogs need less grains than most foods offer. What are some brands and blends to consider? I don't mind spending a little extra $, but still want something readily avail at Tractor Suppy, Wal Mart, ect. How about once he gets big? What to switch to?

Welcome. You can find all kind of reviews in the Diet and Nutrition Forum on this board. It's flooded with talk about puppy/dog food discussions. Some great brands are: California Natural, Innova, Origen, and many others. You can go as expensive or in-expensive as you want. Meet based foods are favored alot of times over corn based foods due to many reasons. The best thing to do when shopping for your food wherever you go, is read the back of the bag. The first 5 ingredients are key.

Ask your breeder.

New here, first real question. I'll have a very high octane lab joining the fam around the end of the year. I want to feed him quality stuff, I read somewhere online that the meat based foods are best and that dogs need less grains than most foods offer. What are some brands and blends to consider? I don't mind spending a little extra $, but still want something readily avail at Tractor Suppy, Wal Mart, ect. How about once he gets big? What to switch to?

You won't find a healthy food for your puppy at Walmart!

You will need to visit your local pet supply store and looks for the healthy brands...

Why not start with what your breeder is feeding him and then slowly make a transition to another food if you prefer.

There are many good foods...but you will not find them at a discount store...go to your local pet center.

You also need to feed what works best for your dog.

Good info, I'll search around some more and see what else I can find here. My breeder does this on the side and won't know as much as some of you guys. He just happens to have access to some really good bloodlines.
I'll ask him, but if any of you have a specific food that you've had good luck w/ I'm all ears. Thanks! Love this site already! I did try to search, just couldn't find anything specific on what foods are good to start on. I'll be sure to avoid wal mart. I did see diamond and a couple other brands at Tractor Supply, maybe I'll check into their ingredients.

I'd feel safer feeding Beneful over a Diamond product...

Look at Fromm Family Gold....Reg Puppy... my son's breeder has a litter on that and the pups look fantastic and the stool is excellent....it's a family run company with a long history of satisfied customers....


Puppy Gold
FOR DOGS
http://www.frommfamily.com/products-g-d-puppy.php
Naturally formulated with fresh Wisconsin duck, fresh chicken, fresh lamb, fish, whole eggs & real cheese. In addition, we enhance this recipe with probiotics to aid digestion and salmon oil for a healthy coat. This product contains no corn and no wheat.

* Fresh Wisconsin Duck
* Fresh Hand-Trimmed USDA Chicken
* Fresh Low-Ash Lamb
* Real Wisconsin Cheddar Cheese
* Chicken Cartilage Rich in Natural Glucosamine
* Prebiotics & Probiotics to Aid Digestion
* Optimum Omega Fatty Acids Ratio
* No Corn and No Wheat

Ingredients:
Duck, Chicken Meal, Chicken, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Menhaden Fish Meal, Brown Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Lamb, Potato, Tomato Pomace, Whole Egg, Salmon Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Cheese, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Alfalfa Meal, Carrots, Lettuce, Celery, Lecithin, Chicken Cartilage, Calcium Sulfate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Longum, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcous Faecium, Vitamin A, D3, E, B12 Supplements, Choline Chloride, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Carbonate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sorbic Acid, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite.

Fromm Puppy Gold...
Guaranteed Analysis
Protein 27% Min
Fat 18% Min
Fiber 3.5% Max
Moisture 10% Max
Ash 6.5% Max
Taurine 0.12% Min
Omega 6 Fatty Acids 2.9% Min
Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0.5% Min
Lactobacillus Acidophilus 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min
Bifidobacterium Longum 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min
Lactobacillus Plantarum 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min
Enterococcous Faecium 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min

Typical Analysis
Calcium 1.3%
Phosphorus 1.0%
Sodium 0.4%
Potassium 0.6%
Magnesium 0.12%
Zinc 135 mg/kg
Iron 229 mg/kg
Manganese 70 mg/kg
Copper 14.7 mg/kg
Cobalt 0.4 mg/kg
Iodine 1.54 mg/kg
Selenium 0.47 mg/kg
Glucosamine 400 ppm
Chondroiten 40 ppm
Vitamin A 20,800 IU/kg
Vitamin D 1,620 IU/kg
Vitamin E 190 IU/kg
Vitamin K 1.60 mg/kg
Vitamin B12 0.11 mg/kg
Choline Chloride 2,660 mg/kg
Niacin 88 mg/kg
Pantothenic Acid 36 mg/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vit C) 49 mg/kg
Riboflavin 9 mg/kg
Thiamine 10.0 mg/kg
Pyridoxine 5.6 mg/kg
Folic Acid 1.6 mg/kg
Biotin 0.3 mg/kg

My breeder does this on the side and won't know as much as some of you guys. He just happens to have access to some really good bloodlines.

It concerns me that you don't have faith in what your breeder is doing...why support them? Nobody here breeds full time, it's a hobby and you either do it right or you don't ;) Have you checked www.offa.org to make sure the parents are listed for Hips and Elbows? How about eyes?

FWIW, I buy both Pro Plan and Diamond Naturals at Tractor Supply.

I'd feel safer feeding Beneful over a Diamond product...

That's just stupid.

Look at Fromm Family Gold....Reg Puppy... my son's breeder has a litter on that and the pups look fantastic and the stool is excellent....it's a family run company with a long history of satisfied customers....

As you and your son trust that your breeder is doing the best for their puppies and feed accordingly, those buying from other breeders should do the same. It wasn't too long ago that you were pushing California Natural Lamb and Rice because your breeder fed it...seems to have changed ;)

Good info, I'll search around some more and see what else I can find here. My breeder does this on the side and won't know as much as some of you guys. He just happens to have access to some really good bloodlines.
I'll ask him, but if any of you have a specific food that you've had good luck w/ I'm all ears. Thanks! Love this site already! I did try to search, just couldn't find anything specific on what foods are good to start on. I'll be sure to avoid wal mart. I did see diamond and a couple other brands at Tractor Supply, maybe I'll check into their ingredients.

You can find decent food at Walmart and places like Tractor Supply. All Walmart food is not O'roys. There are always some that have an anti-Walmart sentiment. Iams is fine, maybe a little less than Eukanuba(owns Iams) but not by much. Basically the same ingredients. I believe Tractor Supply has Taste of the Wild dog food. Some like that but I have no experience with it.

I would ask your breeder what he feeds even though he may be just a back yard breeder. I would like to stay with what he's feeding for awhile. Not good to change foods right away.

We feed proplan products, they sell them at our tractor supply here don't know if they have that at your store or not. We had Bailey on it as a baby and Sarah too they were/are healthy pups. We also did the roller coaster ride with food over the past year and went back to proplan it works well with our guys.

I should add that Sarah has allergies to corn so we are in the process of trying the proplan selects for her but other then that she has been healthy pup on proplan.

Keep puppy on the food he/she was eating at the breeders for at least 2-3 weeks (preferably abit longer) until he has adjusted to the chances (leaving littermates). Then if you really do not like the results of the food you can change.

I believe there are few meat based foods (grain free) appropriate for puppies.

There are few "profressional breeders" who work full time at it (or make a living out of it) most good/ethical breeders do it "on the side" as a hobby. It being a hobby (or "on the side) is NOT an excuse for them to not know their dogs and what works best for them. Do ask them what they feed, and WHY THEY FEED that. Breeders usually feed what WORKS for their lines (good health and coat).

Make sure both parents of the pup have all health clearances (hips, elbows, heart and eyes as a minimum - done thru test not thru "vet visits"). It is surprising that you just put off asking the breeder for there opinion on food yet trust them to get a puppy from them.

It concerns me that you don't have faith in what your breeder is doing...why support them? Nobody here breeds full time, it's a hobby and you either do it right or you don't ;) Have you checked www.offa.org to make sure the parents are listed for Hips and Elbows? How about eyes?

FWIW, I buy both Pro Plan and Diamond Naturals at Tractor Supply.



That's just stupid.



As you and your son trust that your breeder is doing the best for their puppies and feed accordingly, those buying from other breeders should do the same. It wasn't too long ago that you were pushing California Natural Lamb and Rice because your breeder fed it...seems to have changed ;)
I am not very smart...:stupid:

Ask your breeder.

^^^

Absolutely.

I personally raise my puppies on ProPlan. Never have had a problem with it and I like the way my puppies look when they grow. The puppies seem to tolerate it well as compared to some of the other "richer" foods out there, plus you can get it just about everywhere which is also a plus.

I have the same question, but for my 4 month old pup. He came on Pedigree, which made him have really loose stools so we switched him to Purina One. He's doing better, but it just doesn't seem to fill him up.

There's got a be a good, less expensive dog food out there. I love my dogs, but I do have a budget and can't really afford $40 or $50 a bag that is going to last 2 weeks. What are my options????

First of all always check the ingredient list of the food you are buying, either on the bag or on the food's website. ALWAYS buy food that is corn, wheat and soy free. NEVER buy dog food in a supermarket or like they said above, Wal-Mart. The reason these foods are cheaper is because that is exactly what they are, cheap food. Get yourself over to a good feed store and buy a good MEAT based dog food free of corn and wheat, dogs are carnivores, the do NOT need to eat corn or wheat, and these ingredients sometimes will cause problems in sensitive dogs. The best selling dog food in the US is a Purina product called Beneful, it's cheap and the way Purina falsely advertises it makes people buy it. If you look at the ingredients it ranks up there as one of the worst foods you can feed a dog. If you ever see Corn as the number 1 ingredient, just that will tell you to stay clear of that food.

The most reputable dog food manufacturer of mid-priced dog food is a company called Natura. They are the makers of EVO, Innova, Cal Natural and Healthwise dog foods. Innova is the standard of their products. Innova was one of the first holistic dog foods on the market and still ranks up there close to the top as the best food you can feed your dog.

Check out Natura here:

www.naturapet.com (http://www.naturapet.com)

ALWAYS buy food that is corn, wheat and soy free.

The most reputable dog food manufacturer of mid-priced dog food is a company called Natura.


As usual, you forgot the simple phrase IN MY OPINION. You're free to do what you want and give your opinion to other, but they're not facts. Those with more experience than you may strongly disagree.

As usual, you forgot the simple phrase IN MY OPINION. You're free to do what you want and give your opinion to other, but they're not facts. Those with more experience than you may strongly disagree.

Really?, okay show me where corn, wheat and soy are beneficial to a dogs health...I am afraid that this is fact. Manufacturers of cheap dog food use corn and wheat as a cheap filler to bind the kibble together. There are better and more nutrious ingredients available to do this, but they cost more. Ever hear the saying, "you get what you pay for"?? That applies to dog food as well as everything else.

Some will disagree that Natura is not a reputable manufacter of pet food? Is that written somewhere? If so, I would like to read it...

Bearsowner, the FACT is that there are many who feed products that contact some corn, etc., and do VERY well. It is your opinion not to feed a dog food that contains these ingredients - others do not necessarily share that opinion. DarwinsMom breeds/shows/and competes some of the most gorgeous labs I have EVER seen. I take her advise seriously.

I fed my golden, Bailey who passed 3 years ago Kibbles & Bits - she lived to 16 without any issues! Some dogs can eat anything AND thrive! Will I feed it again, no, but it did NOT kill my dog or make her sick, or anything else bad.

Healthwise by Natura is a good choice. I had luck feeding ProPlan Selects...but I did have to feed more and I cleaned up more poo in the backyard. My DH could not believe it when we switched to California Natural. The poos are now like tootsi roll midgets and rolls!!

Remember that when you feed a more meat based food you will not feed nearly as much. For example only, Molly @ 60# and high energy eats 1.25 cups twice a day in the summer and is now at 3/4 cup twice a day since she's not swimming every day. Ava @ 70# is pretty much my couch potato and gets 3/4 cup twice a day year round. Belle @ 92# is now getting 1 cup twice a day and we may need to drop her to 3/4 cup twice a day here soon. So in the long run, even if the bag costs more, it can be cheaper to feed.

Good luck!

LadyBuckeye is correct, Bear is 90+ lbs. and only needs about 2 cups of Innova a day to maintain that weight, and remember, Innova has 504 K/cals per cup. You feed less of this food than those foods with lower k/cal values.

I am trying to put my puppy on nutro natural choice large breed puppy because I cannot seem to find california natural here...and he has a sensative belly...any opinions on this...also what is a good treat for a sensative stomach. Right now he is still getting half chicken and rice and half dog food. I do not mind cooking for him as it is actually cheaper than the dog food but I worry he is not getting the nutrients he needs. I feel like I have read thousands of bags and they are all full of crap!!!

I am trying to put my puppy on nutro natural choice large breed puppy because I cannot seem to find california natural here...and he has a sensative belly...any opinions on this...also what is a good treat for a sensative stomach. Right now he is still getting half chicken and rice and half dog food. I do not mind cooking for him as it is actually cheaper than the dog food but I worry he is not getting the nutrients he needs. I feel like I have read thousands of bags and they are all full of crap!!!

Just to point out something about Nutro food. It is loaded with rice. They break down the fractions of rice so it they do not have to list rice as the number 1 ingredient. Still rice is better than corn or wheat for dogs, though some dogs are sensitive to rice also.
Yes, Cal Natural would be the best choice for a dog with a sensitive stomach, since it contains only a single protein source.
If you have a Petco near you, you can try one of Natural Balances LID (Limited Ingredient Diets). Their original formula is Potato and Duck, but now have many more LID formulas to choose from.

Check them out here:

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/allergy.html

First of all always check the ingredient list of the food you are buying, either on the bag or on the food's website. ALWAYS buy food that is corn, wheat and soy free. NEVER buy dog food in a supermarket or like they said above, Wal-Mart. The reason these foods are cheaper is because that is exactly what they are, cheap food. Get yourself over to a good feed store and buy a good MEAT based dog food free of corn and wheat, dogs are carnivores, the do NOT need to eat corn or wheat, and these ingredients sometimes will cause problems in sensitive dogs. The best selling dog food in the US is a Purina product called Beneful, it's cheap and the way Purina falsely advertises it makes people buy it. If you look at the ingredients it ranks up there as one of the worst foods you can feed a dog. If you ever see Corn as the number 1 ingredient, just that will tell you to stay clear of that food.

The most reputable dog food manufacturer of mid-priced dog food is a company called Natura. They are the makers of EVO, Innova, Cal Natural and Healthwise dog foods. Innova is the standard of their products. Innova was one of the first holistic dog foods on the market and still ranks up there close to the top as the best food you can feed your dog.

Check out Natura here:

www.naturapet.com (http://www.naturapet.com)


And there are those of us (myself) who fed Innova (Cappy) and EVO (Bailey). Neither food worked for either dog. Gave them the worst runs..

Cappy did great on Proplan as did Bailey on Eukanaba (both per their breeder).

If you don't trust what your breeder feeds then I find it quite simple -Don't buy a pup from them.

And there are those of us (myself) who fed Innova (Cappy) and EVO (Bailey). Neither food worked for either dog. Gave them the worst runs..

Cappy did great on Proplan as did Bailey on Eukanaba (both per their breeder).

If you don't trust what your breeder feeds then I find it quite simple -Don't buy a pup from them.

It took a quite awhile for me to understand that almost all the time it is not the food that causes the problem, but the dog. It wasn't the Innova or Evo that caused your dogs to have the runs, but YOUR dogs sensitivity to one or more of the ingredients in the food. Dog food is not made to give your dog the runs. If this wasn't true, why do my dogs have solid logs from eating Innova and has never caused them to have loose stools or the runs? Right away people blame the dog food when it's their dog that can't handle it.

Katski23 you asked about Nutro Natural Choice large breed puppy. I fed that food to my last lab (just a year ago). I fed the lamb and rice large breed puppy. It was the only food he did well on. Nutro unfortunately has had a lot of problems so I don't really trust them anymore, but my boy Sam looked great and felt great on that food.

Nancy

It took a quite awhile for me to understand that almost all the time it is not the food that causes the problem, but the dog. It wasn't the Innova or Evo that caused your dogs to have the runs, but YOUR dogs sensitivity to one or more of the ingredients in the food. Dog food is not made to give your dog the runs. If this wasn't true, why do my dogs have solid logs from eating Innova and has never caused them to have loose stools or the runs? Right away people blame the dog food when it's their dog that can't handle it.

bearsowner, you are quite amusing. If a dog does well on it, you figure it IS a result of the ingredients of your chosen brand. If not, then has to be the dog.:p:

It took a quite awhile for me to understand that almost all the time it is not the food that causes the problem, but the dog. It wasn't the Innova or Evo that caused your dogs to have the runs, but YOUR dogs sensitivity to one or more of the ingredients in the food. Dog food is not made to give your dog the runs. If this wasn't true, why do my dogs have solid logs from eating Innova and has never caused them to have loose stools or the runs? Right away people blame the dog food when it's their dog that can't handle it.


I 'think' both foods were too rich for my dogs and the problem was not the dog(s). So yes, I do believe it was the food. The feed store from which we buy from also said this is a problem for many dogs along with my vet.

Natura may be a great food but I was not going to stick to something that didn't work for my dogs.

In my opinion, ZiwiPeak doesn't hold a candle to many other foods "out there" which is what Bailey is on.
I find it to be one of the best foods on the market but I also understand it's very pricey.

Cappy who switched from Innova to Natures Variety has had NO problems since taking him off Innova.

You really need to find what works for your dog(s) and that is the bottom line..

bearsowner, you are quite amusing. If a dog does well on it, you figure it IS a result of the ingredients of your chosen brand. If not, then has to be the dog.:p::deadhorse:

Would you please point that out where I said that? Thanks...:rolleyes:

To the OP: Like a lot of other posters, my dogs have done very well on Pro Plan Selects but each dog is different and I'm not one to insist everyone must feed what I feed. You have to find what works best for your particular dog. I agree that you should stick with what the breeder is feeding at least for a while and then if you want to switch, do it slowly. You've been given some good suggestions of different foods to try (Natura products, Pro Plan, Natural Balance, Eukanuba, etc) so see what fits into your budget and which has the ingredients you feel are important. Transistion slowly and give it a chance. Also, be careful not to overfeed.

to the OP, if budget is an issue and you want a decent food maybe if you have costco near you could try kirkland foods, ingredients are fairly decent and its about 12.99 for a 20 pound bag of the puppy food. Thats what i feed both my dogs and they are both very healthy, no loose stools, nice coats, here is the list of ingredients

Kirkland Signature Range Super Premium Puppy Chicken, Rice and Vegetable Full Ingredients List:

Chicken,chicken meal,whole grain brown rice, cracked pearled barley, egg product, beet pulp, chicken fat(preserved with mixed tocopherols and Vitamin E), potatoes,fish meal, flaxseed,natural flavors, brewers dried yeast, millet, potassium chloride, salt, choline, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder,salmon oil (a source of DHA), rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.
Kirkland Signature Range Super Premium Puppy Chicken, Rice and Vegetable Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein…………..28.0% minimum
Crude Fat …………..17.0% minimum
Crude Fiber………….. 3.0% minimum
Moisture………….. 10.0% minimum
Calcium…………..1.2% minimum
Phosphorus …………..1.0%minimum
Zinc………….. 225mg/kg minimum
Selenium …………..0.4 mg/kg minimum
Vitamin E …………..250 IU/kg minimum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids………….. 3.0% minimum*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids …………..0.5% minimum*
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) …………..0.05% minimum*
*Not recognized as an essentioal nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient profile.

It took a quite awhile for me to understand that almost all the time it is not the food that causes the problem, but the dog.



Would you please point that out where I said that? Thanks...:rolleyes:

Above and of course all your post supporting your brand of choice because of all the 'premium' ingredients. Pretty easy to see.:rolleyes:

But what you said can apply to the so call lower end foods. The majority of dogs will do just fine on Iams and Purina One, but some will not. Some might do better on your brands. But does that make those 2 foods crap because of the minority that can't handle it? Maybe it's just the dog as you said above and not the ingredients. I know....they come from Walmart so they have to be crap.:p:

Really?, okay show me where corn, wheat and soy are beneficial to a dogs health..

I can show you millions of dogs who live perfectly healthy, happy lives eating them...that seems pretty beneficial to me.

Some will disagree that Natura is not a reputable manufacter of pet food? Is that written somewhere? If so, I would like to read it...

Go back and read your own words. You didn't say that Natura is A reputable co, you said they were the MOST REPUTABLE. That's a matter of opinion.

Again, you are free to feed what ever you want. You can even come on here and recommend it. But when you say it's the ONLY thing that's correct, you're wrong.

First off...when it comes to food for ourselves or our pets it becomes our choice....no matter what anyone else believes works better, whether they are a breeder or a regular Joe...whether they are a dog nutritionist or follower of the Pet Food Industry....

You will see..Feed what works....great advice...but simplistic when a dog owner has many brands to buy and all say will make your dog healthy and look great...so it makes for nice short posts but is not helpful..IMO

Breeders also have egos that make them think it is OK to say hurtful things to people because their dogs are the elite....and they must be right because they are in the business of dogs....

I am going to tell you to listen to everyone, but make up your mind as to what is best for you..It will involve how much money you have to spend, availability of the food, and then if your dog processes the food so it looks great in coat, ears, eyes, and stool condition...

My interest in Pet Food is the manufacturing side....as I have been in that industry for over 30 years now....my business is not food....but involves making products that keep you alive, keep the nation safe, and we can't make mistakes or people die...What I have seen from reading and news reports the Pet Food Industry has big problems....because they have no accountability....they get away with a lot....and your dog or cat suffers...

Listen to me or not...Do not feed Diamond products..IMO...they sound great because of price and ingredients....but you never know what you are going to get....their quality record is horrendous....Don't trust your dogs life to them...they should not be in business...The FDA has been lax in looking into their problems....perhaps one day they will get off of their behinds and investigate them....

Is Beneful better than Diamond.....yes...You will always get the same in each bag...something Diamond does not do....that is fact and people who work for them know that..and have even posted recently about that...choose to believe it or not...but kibble allows them to do that...anything could be in any batch..The consumer has no way of knowing..Only trust...

First off...when it comes to food for ourselves or our pets it becomes our choice....no matter what anyone else believes works better, whether they are a breeder or a regular Joe...whether they are a dog nutritionist or follower of the Pet Food Industry....


I am going to tell you to listen to everyone, but make up your mind as to what is best for you..It will involve how much money you have to spend, availability of the food, and then if your dog processes the food so it looks great in coat, ears, eyes, and stool condition...





There you go, good reasonable advice. And I like your imo's. ;)

Originally Posted by uplander http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/showthread.php?p=1964329056#post1964329056)

I am going to tell you to listen to everyone, but make up your mind as to what is best for you..It will involve how much money you have to spend, availability of the food, and then if your dog processes the food so it looks great in coat, ears, eyes, and stool condition...


Saying that, IMHO, people should then try and find a Natura product to feed their dogs. Natura makes a wide selection of dog foods that should be acceptable to any healthy dog. Whether it be Innova, EVO, Healthwise, California Natural or Karma. Natura pet foods are the standard by which all other pet foods are judged. IMHO

Very good post Uplander. I will add, as one who often writes short posts (:)), if I say "feed what works", what I generally mean is, DON'T feed what doesn't work (ie - runny stools, greasy coat) even if on paper it sounds like a great food.

Bearsowner - Natura is not available to everyone. Ordering online for your primary food is not always a good option, not just because of the added cost and possibility of a food not being in stock causing a longer wait for delivery, but also because Natura themselves do not recommend it. From their website:



Natura Pet Products does not encourage Internet sales. Therefore we do not keep a separate listing of who sells our products on the Internet. We prefer our customers go to their local independent retail pet food stores where you can review date codes for freshness, get the added knowledge of the store staff about our products, plus make a savings by avoiding the shipping cost. Any product purchased via the Internet is not guaranteed by Natura Pet Products

12guns: You should check out the foods you are considering feeding on http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

I feed California Natural. I have also fed Eukanuba with good results. Mugen came home on Pro Plan Puppy and I didn't like the results I got with it as much... but it's not a bad food either. What you feed will also depend on your puppy's activity level. If you plan to start hunting and training your pup at an early age you might want to look into foods that are appropriate for that activity level.

Welcome to the board.

Bet you didn't think you would start a food fight, did ya? :D

There's got a be a good, less expensive dog food out there. I love my dogs, but I do have a budget and can't really afford $40 or $50 a bag that is going to last 2 weeks. What are my options????

A lot of people feed Diamond Naturals or Kirkland (some dont like it) and have good results on it. Healthwise (by Natura) is reasonably priced I believe as well. Those are just a few that come to mind.

Its only fair to mention to the OP, who did in fact ask if there was food that she can purchase at Walmart, that Natura foods can be a bit more expensive than foods found at Walmart. Natura makes great food yes but if you cant afford it then do not stress, there are foods that are less expensive and that still can be considered decent food. I do not suggest foods from walmart, you can find better quality foods fit for a tight budget at local feed stores, petsmart, costco

Anyone notice that once again the OP hasnt returned to there own thread?

Originally Posted by uplander http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/showthread.php?p=1964329056#post1964329056)


Saying that, IMHO, people should then try and find a Natura product to feed their dogs


That's cool, but I'm not driving 100 miles for any dog food. It's not in everyone's backyard.




Bet you didn't think you would start a food fight, did ya? :D

It's not hard here.;)

I do not suggest foods from walmart, you can find better quality foods fit for a tight budget at local feed stores, petsmart, costco



I noticed in today's paper that a 40lb bag of Iams is on sale for $31.99 at Petco. I also have an extra $2 coupon so I'm buying me a bag there, plus everything is better at a pet store.:p:

I noticed in today's paper that a 40lb bag of Iams is on sale for $31.99 at Petco. I also have an extra $2 coupon so I'm buying me a bag there, plus everything is better at a pet store.:p:

That's nothing, Wal-Mart has a 44 lb. bag of Ol' Roy for $18.97! I mean how can you beat that price??

Now,

Quote:
Natura Pet Products does not encourage Internet sales. Therefore we do not keep a separate listing of who sells our products on the Internet. We prefer our customers go to their local independent retail pet food stores where you can review date codes for freshness, get the added knowledge of the store staff about our products, plus make a savings by avoiding the shipping cost. Any product purchased via the Internet is not guaranteed by Natura Pet Products


The reason for this is Natura ONLY supports their independent retail pet food stores and outlets. This is where they make the bulk of their money and sales. More than likely they (Natura) has made a commitment to these retailers to support them and not internet retailers. Makes sense.

If you really want to buy a Natura product, you should ask your pet food retailer to order it for you. They can order a few bags for you and keep them on hand when you come back to buy more. This is your independent pet store not places like Petco, Petsmart and other large retail pet food chains. Normally though, a good pet food outlet will stock Natura products, at least Innova.

But if they don't?.........

What would you recommend?

But if they don't?.........

What would you recommend?

Even though it is made by Diamond, Natural Balance is a decent food and somewhat reasonably priced (about the same as Innova).

Besides NB, I haven't a clue because those are the only two food I have fed recently.

I dumped Canidae when they changed the formula last year and outsourced to Diamond also.

When I first got Bear I fed him Nutro Lamb and Rice , he did terrible on it, his coat was dull and his skin was over flaky with dandruff.

The old Canidae took care of all that.

Personally, I will not feed a dog food that contains CORN, WHEAT OR SOY. Just my personal preference.

The result: Both my dogs are healthy and thriving, have good coats and are bright eyed. What else can you ask for?

Thanks. As I've stated, my dogs are doing well on the food they get but if they weren't (or in the future I got a dog who didn't do well on it), NB is one I would consider.

Despite all the put downs it gets, I've found Petco does seem to have a wide variety of foods - many more than the one feed store in town. Besides NB (and Pro Plan Select which I know you don't approve of but my dogs made a great improvement in coat, stools etc when I switched to it) they also carry Wellness, Solid Gold, Nature's Variety, Blue Buffalo, Naure's Recipe, Eukanuba and others I've seen with varying recommendations. The feed store DOES carry Canidae but beyond that it's Iams, Eukanuba, regular Pro Plan (but not the Select), Nutro Max and some really cheap stuff I can't remember the name of. They may carry Diamond Natural - I can't recall. They carry a lot of livestock feed and products so that may be why their dog food selection is more limited. Or it just could be that they suck...:)

I have fed and can recommend ProPlan Selects, ProPlan Lamb, Wellness Core-Ocean, Innova Red Meat, EVO, and California Natural - both Chicken & Lamb adult formulas as well as the Lamb puppy formula, plus a foster who did great on NB Sweet Potato and Venison. With that said, my golden lived with NO health problems til 16 on Kibbles and Bits! They girls have had great coats, etc., on all the foods but did have much larger poos on ProPlan. I'd feed Proplan again, but find I feed less of California Natural and Innova Red Meat and by doing a quick calculation, it's cheaper for me to feed. The only food that my girls did not do well on was Science Diet.

The result: Both my dogs are healthy and thriving, have good coats and are bright eyed. What else can you ask for?

Can I ask what food you were feeding when you took the picture used in your signature? That dog doesn't have much of a coat.

That's nothing, Wal-Mart has a 44 lb. bag of Ol' Roy for $18.97! I mean how can you beat that price??

.

What does Ol'Roy's have to do with Iams? Oh I get it........since Iams is sold at Walmart your going to put it in the same category as Ol'Roy. Yeah.....that makes good sense.:huh:




The result: Both my dogs are healthy and thriving, have good coats and are bright eyed. What else can you ask for?

Hey....what a coincidence? Mine too. :smile


Can I ask what food you were feeding when you took the picture used in your signature? That dog doesn't have much of a coat.:funny:

Can I ask what food you were feeding when you took the picture used in your signature? That dog doesn't have much of a coat.

Bear was 15 months old in that photo, about 6 years ago...At that time he was eating Nutro Lamb & Rice. I am going to get an update sig photo. I think his new coat was coming in at the time or should of been in since it was winter.

Nicosmom you are correct about Petco, they do have somewhat of a variety of decent food, Wellness, Solid Gold and Blue Buffalo are good decent foods. I would choose Wellnes or Blue Buffalo, since Solid Gold is made by Diamond.

To the OP if still around and not scared off by all this, don't forget to add some other foods to your dog's diet also. Not on an everday basis but a few times a week I add canned Salmon and also sardines. Both these fish foods contain good EPA's. I have heard though that a lot of the oil is removed from canned Salmon, not sure if this is true or not. Yogurt also is good to feed mix in with their kibble, plain low fat or no fat yogurt. Also good table scraps won't harm your dog either...

To the OP if still around and not scared off by all this, don't forget to add some other foods to your dog's diet also. Not on an everday basis but a few times a week I add canned Salmon and also sardines. Both these fish foods contain good EPA's. I have heard though that a lot of the oil is removed from canned Salmon, not sure if this is true or not. Yogurt also is good to feed mix in with their kibble, plain low fat or no fat yogurt. Also good table scraps won't harm your dog either...

Why would the OP need to supplement anything in kibble for a pup?

If you (that's you) are feeding "the best" food out there, why would this be necessary?

One last question to you, did you get your pup from a breeder? If so I'm just dying to know what the breeder fed to cause you to be so "jaded"?

To the OP if still around and not scared off by all this, don't forget to add some other foods to your dog's diet also. Not on an everday basis but a few times a week I add canned Salmon and also sardines. Both these fish foods contain good EPA's. I have heard though that a lot of the oil is removed from canned Salmon, not sure if this is true or not. Yogurt also is good to feed mix in with their kibble, plain low fat or no fat yogurt. Also good table scraps won't harm your dog either...


do you rinse the canned fish before serving? what about canned tuna? is that ok? Would be a good change for her, ive only given her boiled chicken, hamburger and veggies so far

do you rinse the canned fish before serving? what about canned tuna? is that ok? Would be a good change for her, ive only given her boiled chicken, hamburger and veggies so far

No, do not rinse the canned salmon or the sardines, some good nutrients are in the liquid that is in the can.

I have read that canned tuna is not good for dogs. Could be that tuna retains mercury more so than salmon. Not really sure.

Those other foods are good to feed for a change of pace from just plain kibble.

You can search for a list of what veggies and fruits are not good for dogs. Some can cause a bad reaction in dogs.

My wife cuts up apples for the dogs. Bear the lab is not crazy about apples, but my beagle loves apples.

The only supplement I ever used was Kronch Salmon Oil. Comes in a pump container and did wonders for the dogs coats and skin. Not cheap though. Imported from Norway.

I get the canned salmon sometimes at Wal-Mart, about $2.00 a can now, used to be a lot cheaper. Anyone starting to feed canned salmon should start slowly so the dog gets adapted to the fish or else it could cause diarhhea and gas.

No, do not rinse the canned salmon or the sardines, some good nutrients are in the liquid that is in the can.

I have read that canned tuna is not good for dogs. Could be that tuna retains mercury more so than salmon. Not really sure.

Those other foods are good to feed for a change of pace from just plain kibble.

You can search for a list of what veggies and fruits are not good for dogs. Some can cause a bad reaction in dogs.

My wife cuts up apples for the dogs. Bear the lab is not crazy about apples, but my beagle loves apples.

The only supplement I ever used was Kronch Salmon Oil. Comes in a pump container and did wonders for the dogs coats and skin. Not cheap though. Imported from Norway.

I get the canned salmon sometimes at Wal-Mart, about $2.00 a can now, used to be a lot cheaper. Anyone starting to feed canned salmon should start slowly so the dog gets adapted to the fish or else it could cause diarhhea and gas.


thanks for the info, i think ill get some salmon soon for my girls. Oh and Zoey absolutely loves apples, thats is her favorite treat, of course peeled and core/seeds removed

Who would think finding a good puppy food would be so dang difficult. I have been online for hours and hours trying to research ingredients and am more confused than ever. I have had Cooper on Pedigree(which he came home on) and now Purina One large breed puppy. I am not happy with the gas and yucky poops and can't imagine he is either...all that gas has got to be uncomfortable. He had a bacterial infection, but that has cleared and a stool sample last week came back good so I know it isn't something medical.

One thing I need to know, which may seem dumb to some of you more knowlegable folkd, but I don't know it. That said, does more calories per cup means you feed less?

Yes, more calories per cup would/could mean you would feed less.

Who would think finding a good puppy food would be so dang difficult. I have been online for hours and hours trying to research ingredients and am more confused than ever. I have had Cooper on Pedigree(which he came home on) and now Purina One large breed puppy. I am not happy with the gas and yucky poops and can't imagine he is either...all that gas has got to be uncomfortable. He had a bacterial infection, but that has cleared and a stool sample last week came back good so I know it isn't something medical.

One thing I need to know, which may seem dumb to some of you more knowlegable folkd, but I don't know it. That said, does more calories per cup means you feed less?

No question is dumb. To answer your question, you must determine approximately the amount of k/cals your pup reguires. Here is a calculator that can get you started, you can adjust up or down as needed for your dogs needs:

http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/mer.htm

The calculator is self-explanatory. Put in your pups weight by percentage of his approximate adult weight and read across to find the k/cals needed per day. May sound complicated, but really it's easy.

As far as food, first of all start off by feeding a corn, wheat and soy free food. Corn and wheat can cause a lot of problems like the ones your experiencing. Both those foods you mentioned above are laden with corn. Second, find out what the breeder or owner of the pup was feeding and if the dog had the same problems before he contracted the bacterial infection.

Do you have a pet supply/feed store nearby? If so, try one of the premium dog foods that are mentioned here on this web site. Petco stores seem to be everywhere, if you have one nearby, you can try Natural Balance Ultra Premium formula. It is an ALS food (All Life Stages) for puppies through senior dogs. This food has approximately 450 k/cals per cup. I know, I had to call Natural Balance to find out because it is not listed on their website or on the bag. Do a 3 day transistion from the old food to the Natural Balance or whatever food you decide to feed.
If after the transition your dog still has the same loose stools and gas, the pup may have sensitivities to some ingredients a food with numerous ingredients. Then you might want to switch to a L.I.D. food (Limited Ingredient Diet), but first give the regular dog food a chance and see how it goes. Limit your dog for now to just his dry kibble, until you get his digestive system under control. Later on you can start giving him treats and see how that goes.

Here is the Natural Balance website:

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/dry.html

There are numerous other premium foods out there. My preference is food made by a company called Natura. Very reputable and they make good wholesome food for dogs with excellent ingredient sources.

Here is there website:

www.naturapet.com (http://www.naturapet.com)

Thanks for the website, bearsowner. I checked it out and it says anywhere from about 1900 to 2400 calories a day. That's more than I'm feeding now which probably explains why he seems so hungry at times during the day. I will increase his amount to match up better and I am still trying to figure out what food to go with, but with much research I think I have it narrowed down to about 5 or 6.

This thread reminds me of going to the dog park in the rich neighborhood. You overhear people talking about "Princess" only eating the finest food, and bottled water and her 10 vet check ups a month. They would then see my in-laws golden retriever that I brought there and complement his coat and suggest he was 5/6 years old (energy, I guess). The conversation always took a similar path when I would say, "nope, 15". What food does he eat? "Whatever is cheapest, except Ol'roy which gives him nuclear gas." Dude lived to 16.

Bottom line: Buy the best food you can comfortably afford (and your dog does well on) and don't let snooty dog owners make you feel bad for it. Just remember that it is a dog. They will eat 2 week old, unidentifiable carcass or cat rockets out of the litter box, given the opportunity. Although it's your responsibility to do the best you can for them, you are still a good dog owner if you can only afford "Atta-boy" and give them lots of love.

This thread reminds me of going to the dog park in the rich neighborhood. You overhear people talking about "Princess" only eating the finest food, and bottled water and her 10 vet check ups a month. They would then see my in-laws golden retriever that I brought there and complement his coat and suggest he was 5/6 years old (energy, I guess). The conversation always took a similar path when I would say, "nope, 15". What food does he eat? "Whatever is cheapest, except Ol'roy which gives him nuclear gas." Dude lived to 16.

Bottom line: Buy the best food you can comfortably afford (and your dog does well on) and don't let snooty dog owners make you feel bad for it. Just remember that it is a dog. They will eat 2 week old, unidentifiable carcass or cat rockets out of the litter box, given the opportunity. Although it's your responsibility to do the best you can for them, you are still a good dog owner if you can only afford "Atta-boy" and give them lots of love.

Classic post! I can see a couple on here looking like this right now.:D

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:_pWMmQc64daV4M:http://www.dreamstime.com/shocked-blond-woman-with-funny-face-thumb7746243.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dreamstime.com/shocked-blond-woman-with-funny-face-thumb7746243.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photos-shocked-blond-woman-with-funny-face-image7746243&usg=__0TmMNapvo-nwjQevwEtflS6wDoE=&h=350&w=233&sz=43&hl=en&start=32&um=1&tbnid=_pWMmQc64daV4M:&tbnh=120&tbnw=80&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpicture%2Bof%2Ba%2Bshocked%2Bface%26n dsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4DMUS_enUS207US209%26 sa%3DN%26start%3D18%26um%3D1)

I just got home from the store with Large Breed Puppy Purina Pro Plan Chicken & Rice. Cooper gobbled it right up so I'm praying it works and that the transition goes smoothly this week. He had black cloud killer gas this a.m. and none of us in the house can take much more!

This thread reminds me of going to the dog park in the rich neighborhood. You overhear people talking about "Princess" only eating the finest food, and bottled water and her 10 vet check ups a month. They would then see my in-laws golden retriever that I brought there and complement his coat and suggest he was 5/6 years old (energy, I guess). The conversation always took a similar path when I would say, "nope, 15". What food does he eat? "Whatever is cheapest, except Ol'roy which gives him nuclear gas." Dude lived to 16.

Bottom line: Buy the best food you can comfortably afford (and your dog does well on) and don't let snooty dog owners make you feel bad for it. Just remember that it is a dog. They will eat 2 week old, unidentifiable carcass or cat rockets out of the litter box, given the opportunity. Although it's your responsibility to do the best you can for them, you are still a good dog owner if you can only afford "Atta-boy" and give them lots of love.

Thank you for pandering MSDOGS1976...your post is what MS lives for..;)

If you're interested in learning more about dog food you can google these 2 sites

The dog food project

Dog food analysis

I'll throw my 2 cents in because I can.
I've fed Diamond products off and on for 20 years w/mostly good results. I realize they have had some problems but I don't think you have to discount them immediately. They offer a variety of foods at a variety of prices.

No one mentioned Eagle Pack...I would recommend Eagle Pack Holistic over the regular Eagle Pack.

I choose foods w/out corn, by products and fragmented ingrediants. That's my choice. I try to purchase the best food that I can that fits comfortably in my budget -so for us its not the top of the line stuff. Because one of my dogs has problems w/barley its not Kirkland either -which I would buy in a heart beat if my dog did well on it.

Good luck!

Some people seem to forget there is expense involved in owning a dog. Vet visits, groomers, heart worm meds, and food.
Giving a dog a home is sure a good thing, but there is more to it and it does take money. Some people say "well it's only a dog", to a lot of people a dog is like their child and is not "only a dog"....

quote: "Bottom line: Buy the best food you can comfortably afford (and your dog does well on) and don't let snooty dog owners make you feel bad for it. Just remember that it is a dog."

Some people seem to forget there is expense involved in owning a dog. Vet visits, groomers, heart worm meds, and food.
Giving a dog a home is sure a good thing, but there is more to it and it does take money. Some people say "well it's only a dog", to a lot of people a dog is like their child and is not "only a dog"....

quote: "Bottom line: Buy the best food you can comfortably afford (and your dog does well on) and don't let snooty dog owners make you feel bad for it. Just remember that it is a dog."


Bearsowner, you sure have a need to stir the pot! I've learned it's much easier (and appreciated) to just answer the OP's question and let them read thru the other threads and learn. There is no reason to rehash and critique what over's have said....just the same stuff over and over again.

Thank you for pandering MSDOGS1976...your post is what MS lives for..;)

Sorry, I don't know anyone around here (see post count). Just an outside observation. If you feel the need to prove to others how much you love your dog, by all means, do it however you feel like. Some dress their dogs, buy shirts, bumper stickers, or buy food that costs more than what they feed their kid on a daily basis. I only hope that you put as much energy into spending time with your dog as you put into squabbling about if the chicken in his food came from a good pedigree. There is nothing wrong with being passionate about your status as dog owner, but don't make others feel bad because they aren't going to spend $50 on a bag of dog food.

Some people say "well it's only a dog", to a lot of people a dog is like their child and is not "only a dog"....


I guess you missed my point. My point was that dogs, in particular labs, are pretty resilient (as you should know). Their requirements to live well are not nearly as demanding as some make it out to be. Sorry to break the news, but even people who can not afford super expensive dog food, can make great dog owners and shouldn't be put off by elitists who think otherwise.

Lots of good info here... I hope the Science Diet we got for Ruger is good enough, it was between that and Nutro at the time. I will keep an eye out for more!!

Okay thanks. We'll agree that Nutro is crap. I wouldn't feed that food if it were given to me for free. It used to be a great food, but not anymore.

Some people seem to forget there is expense involved in owning a dog. Vet visits, groomers, heart worm meds, and food.


Groomers? For a Lab? what the heck for?

Bearsowner, you sure have a need to stir the pot! I've learned it's much easier (and appreciated) to just answer the OP's question and let them read thru the other threads and learn. There is no reason to rehash and critique what over's have said....just the same stuff over and over again.

I think you meant for the above post to be directed to MSDogs1976....Seems you cannot read through the sarcasm in his posts...

Okay thanks. We'll agree that Nutro is crap. I wouldn't feed that food if it were given to me for free. It used to be a great food, but not anymore.

Don't want to break any bubbles, but here is the the first ingredients of Science Diet Adult Large Breed kibble:

Ingredients
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Oil, Chicken Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Iodized

First ingredient is CORN, then a by-product meat, then Soybean.:eek: Yikes!

What that lady used to say? "Where's the Beef"!


Maybe you groom your dog at home, more power to you. Bear goes about every 2 or 3 months to a groomer for a thorough brushing, a bath, which the groomer I go to has this nozzle that attaches to power sprayer which removes all dead hair and dead skin. He has his nails clipped, ears cleaned, and when I get him he looks and smells like a new dog. They put some really nice shiny stuff on his coat, he looks ready for the show ring, no bull. All for only $55 plus tax. Oh and for that price they even put a nice colorful ribbon on his collar.

I think I tried giving Bear a bath at home once, there was more water on me and the floor than got on Bear, lol..

Bearsowner, you sure have a need to stir the pot! I've learned it's much easier (and appreciated) to just answer the OP's question and let them read thru the other threads and learn. There is no reason to rehash and critique what over's have said....just the same stuff over and over again.

I think you meant for the above post to be directed to MSDogs1976....Seems you cannot read through the sarcasm in his posts...

bear........I believe you need to look in the mirror, her post was directed at you. And your sarcasm meter must be broke because you have beat me by a mile.

Sorry, I don't know anyone around here (see post count). Just an outside observation. If you feel the need to prove to others how much you love your dog, by all means, do it however you feel like. Some dress their dogs, buy shirts, bumper stickers, or buy food that costs more than what they feed their kid on a daily basis. I only hope that you put as much energy into spending time with your dog as you put into squabbling about if the chicken in his food came from a good pedigree. There is nothing wrong with being passionate about your status as dog owner, but don't make others feel bad because they aren't going to spend $50 on a bag of dog food.

I guess you missed my point. My point was that dogs, in particular labs, are pretty resilient (as you should know). Their requirements to live well are not nearly as demanding as some make it out to be. Sorry to break the news, but even people who can not afford super expensive dog food, can make great dog owners and shouldn't be put off by elitists who think otherwise.

So true. I'm lucky enough to have retired early(52) and can certainly afford any of the premium brands mentioned here, but I see no reason to do so as I'm confident I feed a good kibble even though it's at a lesser price than the Natura products. Nothing wrong with feeding those brands, but I choose not to. If I come across a little strong to bearsowner, it's because of the reasons as expressed in your post.

Oh well.....time for a glass of wine. I've fed my boy his dinner and he is relaxing by the fire. Time for me to kick my feet up and do the same.:p:

To the OP:

My rule of thumb is to avoid bottom-shelf dog food like Ol Roy. I've tried feeding my pup different stuff. I like Purina One Lamb and Rice about as well as anything. I bought Iams thinking it might be better only to realize it has less protein, and no major difference in the ingredients that I can see. The breeder fed him Pedigree, which gave him nasty stool. I'm thinking about trying the Purina One Chicken and Rice Large Breed, as it has more protein than the Lamb and Rice formula. Regardless of what I purchased Winston has never complained. :D

I do agree that it is better to go with a food that has rice as a primary carbohydrate as opposed to corn. It makes the stool less messy and is easier for your dog to digest. But I'm not so much a dog food snob that I'd say you have to buy $50 bags of natural dog food for your dog to be healthy and happy (nor can I afford it on a graduate student's stipend). I'd look for a dog food that has a high percentage of protein and brewer's rice. You may also want to supplement your dog's diet with some vitamins, which can be found for cheap.

Its only fair to mention to the OP, who did in fact ask if there was food that she can purchase at Walmart, that Natura foods can be a bit more expensive than foods found at Walmart. Natura makes great food yes but if you cant afford it then do not stress, there are foods that are less expensive and that still can be considered decent food. I do not suggest foods from walmart, you can find better quality foods fit for a tight budget at local feed stores, petsmart, costco

Anyone notice that once again the OP hasnt returned to there own thread?

yeah, sorry, didn't mean to abandon this thread! I thought it died, then pulled it up today to see it thriving! Great info here. I'm gonna keep him on the puppy chow that the breeder used for a few weeks, then look into getting a better food. I like the idea of something avail at Tractor Supply, I think they sell Diamond. Either way, I know what to avoid and what ingrediants to look for. Thanks again, I'm still working through the thread!