baked food vs extruded food?

[Candy and Spike's Dad]

FAQ | Lotus Pet Foods All the baked food companies claim they use lower temp than extruded food. I called Carna4(Lotus and Carna4 are made at the same place) and they told me they only cook for 4 mins and with much lower temps than extrusion. They couldn't tell me exact tem because it was company's secret but he told me it was somewhere in the 200s. If baked food was inferior, why would they even make them? It's so much cheaper to make extruded food than baked food

I also found this
Why Dry Pet Food is Poor in Nutrition

[Candy and Spike's Dad]

This is what lotus rep said in her email. I told her that I was having an arguement with a guy who blieved extruded food is better.

Oh my, what fun! I do not have the exact answers at hand as I personally have never been asked before, so I am relaying them through QC at the bakery. You can tell him the following benefits of baking vs extruded:

100% Protein retention (amino acids) in Lotus baked vs 20% loss in extruded foods
100% Vitamin retention in Lotus baked vs 40% loss in extruded foods
0% ‘sprayed on flavors’ or fats with baking. No need to increase the palatability because nothing is lost in the baking process. This also means that Lotus baked foods are not greasy like so many extruded foods
Lotus uses 40% fresh meat, which is 33% more than any premium kibble on the market. This means lower Ash with better Calcium and Phosphorus levels.

I’ll get back to you as soon as I can, but you can see it is not about degrees, it is all about the ingredients and the process.

[LabMunsterBracco]

Unfortunately they are lying. First, the foods are low protein and low fat and therefore high starch foods. By calories, the foods are 50% carbohydrate. If you don't believe me, Dog Food Advisor says 47% so my calculation and his are close enough. Beyond that, the company uses soybean oil as a fat, junk. Soybean oil is probably used for some other technical reason other than supplying fat. This food is at best 50% of the GA protein from the animal ingredients.

So this food is basically like a dog treat more or less.

Don't believe for a second this food is baked at 200 degrees that is total bullshit. Do you honestly think anything can be cooked and dried at 200 degrees for 4 mins??

Have you ever baked anything, cookies, bread, brownies in a 200 degree oven for 4 minutes? Mix a batch of brownies and see what you get.

From Dog Food Project website:

"Pet food that is oven baked can be processed at temperatures of 425 degrees Fahrenheit or higher, and for much longer time periods than the extrusion process takes. Modern manufacturing techniques allow for very low temperatures during the extrusion process. Oven baked kibble also tends to stick to the dog's teeth a lot worse than extruded dry food. Which one deserves "extra credit" is something you should decide after comparing the manufacturer's information on processing times and temperatures."

Another quote: "“Oven Baked” Kibble – wow – sounds a lot healthier, right? Well…it’s not, really. You see this product is processed at a temperature of 450 degrees F for at least 45 minutes. All of this result in nutrient loss and damage to the amino acids and most are made from meat meal just like the extruded style mentioned above."

As for Lotus using fresh meat, who cares. The protein in the food is only 24%. Compare that to other foods on the market.

Lotus is nothing but marketing.

[Candy and Spike's Dad]

actually Lotus emailed me again and told me they cook the food for 10 mins at 500 degrees. Not 45 mins. Here is what she said"

Well here is some updated info for you. Our kibble is baked at an average of 500 degrees for 10 minutes. This seals in the nutrients and flavors (a bit like searing a steak). Extrusion uses high pressure steam and cooks from the inside out (like microwaving a hot dog). Yes it is at a lower temp, but at the cost of nutrients. The baking process has a 50% starch conversion; Extrusion has a 100% starch conversion, which means a higher glucose load.

[Candy and Spike's Dad]

I don't have any problems with baked or extruded food as long as it works for my dogs. so far Spike is doing good. The lotus food is actually pretty cheap here 24(5?)lbs cost around $58. Spike's been on so many food, Fromm, Proplan, Nutrisource, Farmina, Nature's logic, Wellness core and Kirkland's super premium(he came to with this food) and I can't say which food he does good on. No matter what I feed, he has anal glands issues. His poops are sometimes soft but not every time. So far, he seems to go poop less on Lotus...

Anyways, I am not a dog food nutritionist so I have no clue how good or bad baked foods are. Also I am not worried about food getting stuck in their teeth because my dogs don't chew, they swallow.

[LabMunsterBracco]

actually Lotus emailed me again and told me they cook the food for 10 mins at 500 degrees. Not 45 mins. Here is what she said"

Well here is some updated info for you. Our kibble is baked at an average of 500 degrees for 10 minutes. This seals in the nutrients and flavors (a bit like searing a steak). Extrusion uses high pressure steam and cooks from the inside out (like microwaving a hot dog). Yes it is at a lower temp, but at the cost of nutrients. The baking process has a 50% starch conversion; Extrusion has a 100% starch conversion, which means a higher glucose load.

More misinformation. Starch conversion is what needs to happen, otherwise the starches are not digestible. So based on the responses, they are just bullshitting you. Microwaves cook with light not steam. Other companies that bake foods make similar claims but it is all marketing.

[Candy and Spike's Dad]

I have to believe what they ar saying more than what you are saying. I don't know your background and qualifications. Until then, you are just like the dogfoodadvisor. It's just one person's opinons.

[Indigo]

More misinformation. Starch conversion is what needs to happen, otherwise the starches are not digestible. So based on the responses, they are just bullshitting you. Microwaves cook with light not steam. Other companies that bake foods make similar claims but it is all marketing.

Regarding the bolded---No, microwaves do not cook with light.

[marc515]

The best health for a kibble-fed dog IS to be on a rotation of proteins and brands of foods; it's becoming a huge recommendation now to NOT feed the same brand or protein of food for months at a time, let-alone for the life of the dog.

The only way to know is to try it; I have one dog that didn't do good on kibble of any kind, extruded or baked; and is utterly thriving on a raw diet. Of which I know is not for everyone; but it did cure all of his digestive/butt issues

Can you cite some sources for the recommendations you noted above?

After all, if it's on the internet it must be true

Seriously though, I always like to read reputable sources, VS just following just what folks post on boards.

Thank you

[Snowshoe]

Can you cite some sources for the recommendations you noted above?

After all, if it's on the internet it must be true

Seriously though, I always like to read reputable sources, VS just following just what folks post on boards.

Thank you

Literature See the section titled Why Rotate Diets. See the page with Dr. Wynn's credentials.

This information was contradicted by the speaker at a Nutrition Seminar I attended this past weekend. Someone whose books are recommended by Dr. Wynn. She, the seminar speaker, said to not rotate kibble. I wish I could put a link and a quote but it's not on her website, it's just something she said during the presentation. And even though she advised us all to ask the exact question you just have none of us there asked her to corroborate her statement. There is the chance I misunderstood, misremember what she said. I don't think I am, but there is the chance and I only have it in my own notes.