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  1. #21
    Real Retriever PinkDragon14's Avatar
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    Also, update:

    I've been putting in roughly 25% of Wellness with each serving of Puppy Smart he gets; today is the 3rd day of doing this (well, actually he moves up to 50% today). Anyway, his "disgusting smell" has faded and his breath no longer smells like a dead skunk; I've also noticed that his dandruff is gone. I am 99% sure that it was the Iams he was getting that contributed to his "different smells", as there is nothing else different around the house/yard. I still find it interesting that the food made him smell so bad. Is there a possibility that his body didn't agree with the food?

  2. #22
    Chief Pooper Scooper JenC's Avatar
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    Puppy breath fades. How long exactly have you had this dog?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkDragon14 View Post
    Do you think that the raw diet would be beneficial once he grows up a bit more? I've considered that as well, but I guess I just need an opinion on it. Our other lab was always fed lamb and rice, as she had a TON of allergies (including chicken, corn, etc.) and really didn't have a choice. We're at least blessed that Murphy doesn't have all of the allergies that our yellow did. Anyway, we never really gave a thought (then and now) to using a raw diet. I would like to pursue dock jumping (if he takes interest in it) and want him to have the most energy possible if he decides that he enjoys it.
    Knowing and seeing what I do now, since switching to raw, I will never feed a commercial dog food again; period. One does not know 100% what's in that food, sources of the quality, etc. you are only reading what's on the bag that they *want* you to read and believe.

    That said, I have seen some amazingly healthy dogs on dry dog foods as well; but likewise, I've seen the same for raw fed dogs too.

    In my house, switching from dry food to raw was an instant difference in vitality; even in the 6mnth old pup who lost all eye boogers, stopped having UTI's, and her energy level was more consistent, rather then highs/lows.

    My older dog is healthier now in his last 2yrs then he was as a puppy; and yes, he developed food allergies as a young dog between 4-6mnths of age. He still runs 5-7 miles a day, no joint issues, energy that's off the charts for a 7yr old, 62lb guy.

    BUT....if you are not familiar with raw and have never fed it; take several *months* to do some serious researching...there are plenty of raw forums; books, etc that will assist greatly. There is even a raw nutrition board on this forum, and plenty of them have fed raw to young puppies.

    Yes, my dogs DO have more energy on a consistent level; there's no highs/lows and the endurance level is amazing compared to what I noticed on kibble; but, even a regular house dog could eat raw and be just fine too.

    Several things I've noticed with raw, I feed less; so it's actually cheaper to feed these 2 dogs then when I was feeding kibble. They only poop once a day; no doggy smell, teeth are very clean, drink very little actual water because there is a ton of moisture in their food.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkDragon14 View Post
    Also, update:

    I've been putting in roughly 25% of Wellness with each serving of Puppy Smart he gets; today is the 3rd day of doing this (well, actually he moves up to 50% today). Anyway, his "disgusting smell" has faded and his breath no longer smells like a dead skunk; I've also noticed that his dandruff is gone. I am 99% sure that it was the Iams he was getting that contributed to his "different smells", as there is nothing else different around the house/yard. I still find it interesting that the food made him smell so bad. Is there a possibility that his body didn't agree with the food?

    Yes....there is a very big possibility the food didn't agree. That's possible with ANY food brand; but I do remember feeding Orijen, supposedly one of the top brands of food, to my big guy when he was a year of age. That dog smelled HORRIBLE, and it went on for months, so it wasn't just a new thing.

    However, the dandruff issue would not be affected that quickly; that would take a few weeks to a few months to see a difference; not just a few days.

  5. #25
    Real Retriever PinkDragon14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenC View Post
    Puppy breath fades. How long exactly have you had this dog?
    I'll have had him 3 weeks this Friday

    Quote Originally Posted by Woofie View Post
    Knowing and seeing what I do now, since switching to raw, I will never feed a commercial dog food again; period. One does not know 100% what's in that food, sources of the quality, etc. you are only reading what's on the bag that they *want* you to read and believe.

    That said, I have seen some amazingly healthy dogs on dry dog foods as well; but likewise, I've seen the same for raw fed dogs too.

    In my house, switching from dry food to raw was an instant difference in vitality; even in the 6mnth old pup who lost all eye boogers, stopped having UTI's, and her energy level was more consistent, rather then highs/lows.

    My older dog is healthier now in his last 2yrs then he was as a puppy; and yes, he developed food allergies as a young dog between 4-6mnths of age. He still runs 5-7 miles a day, no joint issues, energy that's off the charts for a 7yr old, 62lb guy.

    BUT....if you are not familiar with raw and have never fed it; take several *months* to do some serious researching...there are plenty of raw forums; books, etc that will assist greatly. There is even a raw nutrition board on this forum, and plenty of them have fed raw to young puppies.

    Yes, my dogs DO have more energy on a consistent level; there's no highs/lows and the endurance level is amazing compared to what I noticed on kibble; but, even a regular house dog could eat raw and be just fine too.

    Several things I've noticed with raw, I feed less; so it's actually cheaper to feed these 2 dogs then when I was feeding kibble. They only poop once a day; no doggy smell, teeth are very clean, drink very little actual water because there is a ton of moisture in their food.
    I glanced at the raw nutrition board briefly this morning and read the list of foods that dogs could have. I was surprised at the number of different fruits/veggies/meats that they could have. Putting him on a raw diet is definitely on my mind and I may pursue it once he gets a bit older. What age would you recommend or is there no "set" age? I'd like to be consistent with a food for a little while before I mess with his diet again. As for his energy level, he has the typical puppy energy (bursts of running around and barking at nothing) but he becomes extremely "hangry" before his next meal (which is expected of a puppy that acts like a Hoover LOL).

    Quote Originally Posted by Woofie View Post
    Yes....there is a very big possibility the food didn't agree. That's possible with ANY food brand; but I do remember feeding Orijen, supposedly one of the top brands of food, to my big guy when he was a year of age. That dog smelled HORRIBLE, and it went on for months, so it wasn't just a new thing.

    However, the dandruff issue would not be affected that quickly; that would take a few weeks to a few months to see a difference; not just a few days.
    It just amazes me that food could affect a dog's smell that much. When we first got him, he smelled, but I figured that was because he wasn't in our house yet. But after he had been home for a few hours, he began throwing up (long story short - vet suspected he either had worms even though he had his 1st deworming, an infection, or a virus) and the smell "stuck" to him. Even after giving him a bath a week later, I swore I could still smell the puke on him. But after we started the food change on Sunday, the smell went away. He started getting really bad dandruff about a week ago and it seems like it has slowed down. I've also noticed he isn't scratching as much anymore; but, that could be due to a lot of things.

  6. #26
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    Now scratching could be related to the previous food OR previous environment too; hard to say.

    Now ALL of my dogs are rescues, I don't do the breeder thing - there's nothing wrong with purchasing from a breeder, it's just my belief is there are plenty of good dogs that need homes too.

    Rivers came to us at 4mnths old, I had already spent a good 10yrs researching raw diets; BUT I didn't trust my instincts and still went the kibble route with him. At 4mnths old when we brought him home, he was full of fleas, skin/ear infections, kennel cough - he was a piece of work. The previous guy had him on Pedigree - first ingredient is corn.

    Rivers was not *sick* per-say, but he also couldn't eat the food without puking. So I instantly threw his dog food out & put him on homecooked chicken/rice for better half of 3wks. Within 2 days he was already feeling better.

    Vet gave him a flea bath - I didn't trust myself, as I don't deal with fleas here where we live...we live in Colorado, Rivers came from Texas.

    After cleaning him up, some antibiotics for kennel cough and homecooked food route, within a very short time Rivers was a happy, bouncing puppy....no itching, no ear infections, etc.

    That said, I didn't trust myself - even after 10yrs of researching - to keep up with his diet myself; so I put him back on half kibble, half homecooked. I fed him California natural puppy lamb/rice, when they were a good company.

    Over time, their quality changed and we ended upon someone else, can't remember now. But, as Rivers grew into a young adult dog, even though he didn't have *itching* issues, he did have digestive issues whenever fed foods with grains of any kind.

    Rivers went swimming one day, in an area he swam in before - boy came home with 4 water-borne bugs. After believing that dog foods were supposedly so nutritious and healthy, this was a boy that couldn't seem to recover, even after the bugs/bacteria was clear of his system, he just no longer had any kind of energy or zest for life. But there was nothing *visibly* wrong with him, per the vet, they didn't understand why his energy didn't return.

    One day I came home and said *screw it, what do I have to lose*, I wanted my energetic YOUNG dog back, it was devastating, he was eating, stools looked good, etc, but he just had no energy and he looked terrible too. And he was eating some very reputable foods; we tried 6 different foods during that time, nothing worked.

    He ate kibble one night for dinner; next morning he had raw ground turkey. That same night he had more turkey and one glob of yogurt; next morning he *looked* perkier.

    Within 3 days I had an ENTIRELY different dog; that was 2yrs ago. I threw out all dry dog foods & haven't looked back.

    Rivers is 7yrs old, was started on raw at around 4.5-5yrs of age - my wish was that I had started him at the 4mnths of age when we got him.

    Creek is 2yrs old, we got her at 4mnths of age with no issues of any kind food wise; we started her on raw at 6mnths of age - at 2yrs of age she's never had the stinky smell most people here talk about, never a single issue of skin, ear, eye's etc.

    Like I said, I myself, if given another puppy would feed what it was already eating for a few weeks for it to settle in; after that, it would get transitioned to raw. I will never feed another animal dry foods of any kind....it has nothing to do with convenience either.

    Most people don't feed raw cause they either don't have space, nor do they have time. I can honestly say that I work 6 days a week, working 2 full-time jobs, I don't have a garage, but we did build a small shed out back where we have an upright freezer & we've had to cram in another smaller upright freezer into our 1,500sq ft house, so we don't have much room either.

    I spend one day every month dividing up their meal portions and freeze them in meal size portions - all I have to do is spend 2min reaching into the freezer to pull out what they need for their next meal, stick in the fridge to defrost...next meal time, I set it on the counter for 20min or so, plop it in the bowl....done!

    Takes less time to feed them now, then when I was feeding kibble, because the kibble had to be stored in a bedroom closet.

    I will say I do not feed whole bones of any kind, except once a week, which is Sunday, when I am home and can spend more time.

    Otherwise the dogs get Vital Essentials or Steve's Raw food, which already includes all the meat/organs they need for a proper ratio; plus I add extra plain ground beef from the grocery store, canned salmon, eggs, yogurt, etc for alternating meals of various types. ....as long as I add in rotation; I can keep the cost below what I was spending feeding them dry dog foods.

    If raw is what you are interested in, I HIGHLY recommend looking into Vital Essentials or Steve's Raw food, they are both already 100% balanced for dogs of all ages, there is NO guess work. You just defrost a patty, and feed, you don't have to worry about proper ratios of any kind.

    Creek is an Australian shepherd/yellow lab/setter mix of some type, tall and linky girl; at 2yrs of age all of her bones developed just fine except a genetic shoulder issue she was born with and was fixed at 6mnths of age (had nothing to do with diet). At 2yrs of age, there is NO signs of a previous shoulder surgery, vet cleared her of any remaining issue and runs like the wind.

    I would NOT try to go the raw route on your own without using reputable pre-made raw on a growing puppy personally....my fear was not giving Creek what she needed for calcium/phosphorus ratios, so I went the pre-made route for her during her major growing phases.

    If you don't want to do full raw, you can do raw for one meal, kibble for the 2nd meal....that's still better then 100% kibble.

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  8. #27
    Chief Pooper Scooper JenC's Avatar
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    So he's 11 weeks?

    Yes, he was just losing his puppy breath, something that happens normally. Soon you'll be smelling the nasty teething breath.

    Puppies scratch. Their skin is growing, they are getting used to a collar. Unless they are scratching themselves raw, I typically ignore it on the little guys. Dandruff happens from stress. Change in food, water, location, moving to a new house 3 weeks ago, change in where they live. Again nothing I worry much about in a puppy.

    If you bought the pup from a reputable breeder, I would be talking to them about a lot of this too.

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  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenC View Post

    If you bought the pup from a reputable breeder, I would be talking to them about a lot of this too.
    Agreed 100% again.

    And this is a huge reason I don't purchase a pup with a *requirement* for what must be fed; BUT if a reputable breeder has a long history line of what beneficial results have come from a specific food then I do believe it's valuable to feed that particular food.

    I will say however, we have always been very lucky in that, long-term, only one of our rescue dogs had a life-long illness that couldn't be changed with diet; he only had seizures however because he had been shot in the neck with a pellet gun - had nothing to do with genetics.

    I'm only explaining this because I don't want anyone to feel that I have anything against purchasing from a breeder; I do NOT; but I am glad to say we don't have to worry about confining in anyone else about what we feel is best. We ourselves purchase rescues because we believe they need a fair right to a good loving home, there are already plenty of people that purchase from breeders, we will help out the *under-dog* if you will.

    Only 2 of our many rescues died at what we feel was a young age; one died at 13, the other at 10....others have lived well into their late teens, so I personally believe diet & genetics together play a huge role.

  11. #29
    Real Retriever PinkDragon14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woofie View Post
    Now scratching could be related to the previous food OR previous environment too; hard to say.

    Now ALL of my dogs are rescues, I don't do the breeder thing - there's nothing wrong with purchasing from a breeder, it's just my belief is there are plenty of good dogs that need homes too.

    Rivers came to us at 4mnths old, I had already spent a good 10yrs researching raw diets; BUT I didn't trust my instincts and still went the kibble route with him. At 4mnths old when we brought him home, he was full of fleas, skin/ear infections, kennel cough - he was a piece of work. The previous guy had him on Pedigree - first ingredient is corn.

    Rivers was not *sick* per-say, but he also couldn't eat the food without puking. So I instantly threw his dog food out & put him on homecooked chicken/rice for better half of 3wks. Within 2 days he was already feeling better.

    Vet gave him a flea bath - I didn't trust myself, as I don't deal with fleas here where we live...we live in Colorado, Rivers came from Texas.

    After cleaning him up, some antibiotics for kennel cough and homecooked food route, within a very short time Rivers was a happy, bouncing puppy....no itching, no ear infections, etc.

    That said, I didn't trust myself - even after 10yrs of researching - to keep up with his diet myself; so I put him back on half kibble, half homecooked. I fed him California natural puppy lamb/rice, when they were a good company.

    Over time, their quality changed and we ended upon someone else, can't remember now. But, as Rivers grew into a young adult dog, even though he didn't have *itching* issues, he did have digestive issues whenever fed foods with grains of any kind.

    Rivers went swimming one day, in an area he swam in before - boy came home with 4 water-borne bugs. After believing that dog foods were supposedly so nutritious and healthy, this was a boy that couldn't seem to recover, even after the bugs/bacteria was clear of his system, he just no longer had any kind of energy or zest for life. But there was nothing *visibly* wrong with him, per the vet, they didn't understand why his energy didn't return.

    One day I came home and said *screw it, what do I have to lose*, I wanted my energetic YOUNG dog back, it was devastating, he was eating, stools looked good, etc, but he just had no energy and he looked terrible too. And he was eating some very reputable foods; we tried 6 different foods during that time, nothing worked.

    He ate kibble one night for dinner; next morning he had raw ground turkey. That same night he had more turkey and one glob of yogurt; next morning he *looked* perkier.

    Within 3 days I had an ENTIRELY different dog; that was 2yrs ago. I threw out all dry dog foods & haven't looked back.

    Rivers is 7yrs old, was started on raw at around 4.5-5yrs of age - my wish was that I had started him at the 4mnths of age when we got him.

    Creek is 2yrs old, we got her at 4mnths of age with no issues of any kind food wise; we started her on raw at 6mnths of age - at 2yrs of age she's never had the stinky smell most people here talk about, never a single issue of skin, ear, eye's etc.

    Like I said, I myself, if given another puppy would feed what it was already eating for a few weeks for it to settle in; after that, it would get transitioned to raw. I will never feed another animal dry foods of any kind....it has nothing to do with convenience either.

    Most people don't feed raw cause they either don't have space, nor do they have time. I can honestly say that I work 6 days a week, working 2 full-time jobs, I don't have a garage, but we did build a small shed out back where we have an upright freezer & we've had to cram in another smaller upright freezer into our 1,500sq ft house, so we don't have much room either.

    I spend one day every month dividing up their meal portions and freeze them in meal size portions - all I have to do is spend 2min reaching into the freezer to pull out what they need for their next meal, stick in the fridge to defrost...next meal time, I set it on the counter for 20min or so, plop it in the bowl....done!

    Takes less time to feed them now, then when I was feeding kibble, because the kibble had to be stored in a bedroom closet.

    I will say I do not feed whole bones of any kind, except once a week, which is Sunday, when I am home and can spend more time.

    Otherwise the dogs get Vital Essentials or Steve's Raw food, which already includes all the meat/organs they need for a proper ratio; plus I add extra plain ground beef from the grocery store, canned salmon, eggs, yogurt, etc for alternating meals of various types. ....as long as I add in rotation; I can keep the cost below what I was spending feeding them dry dog foods.

    If raw is what you are interested in, I HIGHLY recommend looking into Vital Essentials or Steve's Raw food, they are both already 100% balanced for dogs of all ages, there is NO guess work. You just defrost a patty, and feed, you don't have to worry about proper ratios of any kind.

    Creek is an Australian shepherd/yellow lab/setter mix of some type, tall and linky girl; at 2yrs of age all of her bones developed just fine except a genetic shoulder issue she was born with and was fixed at 6mnths of age (had nothing to do with diet). At 2yrs of age, there is NO signs of a previous shoulder surgery, vet cleared her of any remaining issue and runs like the wind.

    I would NOT try to go the raw route on your own without using reputable pre-made raw on a growing puppy personally....my fear was not giving Creek what she needed for calcium/phosphorus ratios, so I went the pre-made route for her during her major growing phases.

    If you don't want to do full raw, you can do raw for one meal, kibble for the 2nd meal....that's still better then 100% kibble.
    I didn't even know that they just made a patty for the dog to eat. 2 more questions (sorry for asking so much):

    1. Do you think raw diets are more filling for a dog? Whenever I feed kibble, he's fine for about a half hour and then starts looking for more food. Obviously, yes, dogs are always searching for food, but he just seems "over hungry" if that makes sense. We just moved his amount that he gets at each meal too and he's STILL "starving".

    2. Could a dog basically live off of those patties or would you recommend switching to a "real" raw diet eventually? I'd like to see how it affects him first before going through all of that work.

    (Thanks again for all of the info!)

    Quote Originally Posted by JenC View Post
    So he's 11 weeks?

    Yes, he was just losing his puppy breath, something that happens normally. Soon you'll be smelling the nasty teething breath.

    Puppies scratch. Their skin is growing, they are getting used to a collar. Unless they are scratching themselves raw, I typically ignore it on the little guys. Dandruff happens from stress. Change in food, water, location, moving to a new house 3 weeks ago, change in where they live. Again nothing I worry much about in a puppy.

    If you bought the pup from a reputable breeder, I would be talking to them about a lot of this too.
    Roughly.

    About the breeder, I guess you could say they were not reputable. In some ways yes, but mostly no. I didn't realize it until AFTER we picked him up. He got sick after being at our house for a few hours (throwing up at least once an hour) and we took him to the emergency vet clinic. They figured it was car sickness (which would make sense) and sent us home with antibiotics and an anti-nausea med. That night, he refused to eat/drink (had to force water into him with the plastic syringe from the antibiotic) and he woke up around midnight with terrible diarrhea. I felt so bad for him because you could tell he didn't feel well at all. We were waking up every 2 hours to give him water via syringe and trying to get him to eat some rice/chicken broth, but he wanted nothing to do with it. Come morning, he had diarrhea again and we took him back to the clinic. They gave him fluids and finally got him to eat/drink on his own, along with stopping the terrible diarrhea he had. They really didn't have an idea what he had. They figure it was worms, an infection, or some type of virus, but they think it was worms. He had his deworming, but they told us sometimes the first round doesn't knock them out completely, he could've gotten into another one's poop (that had worms in it), etc. Anyway, ever since then, he's been bouncing off the walls and fully recovered. You'd never know he was sick 3 weeks ago.

    When we visited him at the breeder when he was 5 weeks, he was extremely quiet, reserved, and slept. I was on the floor with the puppies, he came over to me, got in my lap, and fell asleep. We thought, "What a perfect dog! He's so quiet, calm, and doesn't bite!" Well, little did we know that he was actually sick. Also, little did we know he'd be such a little demon LOL

    After looking back on what happened, I think he probably would've died if we hadn't picked him up. He "picked us" at 5 weeks, but sometimes I wonder if he knew we'd take care of him. I still worry about him getting sick again and I watch him like a hawk in the yard when we go out. He goes to the vet next week, so we'll see what they have to say about everything.

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkDragon14 View Post
    He goes to the vet next week, so we'll see what they have to say about everything.
    I will tell U first hand, 90% of your regular vets out there do not agree or recommend raw diets; for one, vets in general do not take nutritional classes during their schooling. They only get quick run-down courses from companies such as Science Diet/Purina, the companies that make vet prescribed diets.

    So if you ask your vet for his opinion on raw, don't be surprised if he/she doesn't freak out. Many people have to do their own research, not just internet either; stuff your nose in thousands of good books, not just one or two, and decide it for yourself.

    Now a Holistic vet WILL highly recommend a raw diet; unless the dog has some immune condition, and then they generally recommend a cooked homemade diet.

    Telling U this ahead of time so U know & it's not a shocker to you. We use 3 different vet practices, mainly because we live in the toolies, i.e. WAY out of town. So I like to have options in case of an emergency.

    One practice highly recommended, for months, for Rivers to eat a high-energy formulation of Science Diet when we couldn't keep the weight on him.

    They sent me home with a trial bag, stuff wreaked horribly....I threw it away She freaked when I told her what I was feeding.

    Our normal vet absolutely LOVED the idea when she found out I finally made the switch to raw; it helped too that Rivers looked so much better on raw then on kibble. So U just never know.

    In regards to feeding the raw patties; yes they are 100% complete and balanced, U do not have to feed anything else with them....U will have to feed an amount suitable for a growing puppy though; for instance, when my pup was growing, she was eating almost 3 patties a day, where my older guy was only eating 1.5 patties.

    In regards to being more *filling* - I can't answer that, every dog is different. But they are using more nutrients from what they are eating because there is no *filler*..With Vital Essentials their patties contain strictly meat/organs, there is no grain - but grains are mostly used as *fillers*.

    Me, I want my dogs to eat what they can actually USE, not just what's going to provide a *filler*

    But, on that note, how much are U feeding this little guy - are u sure he's getting enough?

 



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