Do you all supplement?

[windycanyon]

I've had litters w/ girls like Annette's that required no more than 3 C per day total (Kanzi is one of those) to pups that needed up to 4.5 C per day (Ruby is there). Never more than that though. Maybe a cup more for some of the boys.

The 2# / wk rate of weight gain is very healthy imo. I don't WANT more than that. I would have said your girl looked great/ perfect in the 4mo photo personally.

Ruby is now 8 mos old and not only taller but ~8# heavier than her 18 mo old cousin Kanzi! I have had no worries about Kanzi w/ her slow growth but Ruby has hurt herself several times in the past month or so (soft tissue) and I think due to her size and growth spurts. Based on her 4mo weight (34.5#), she should top out at 70# roughly, but was already 61.5# at 8mos which is the biggest any of mine have been at 8 mo in many years of breeding/owning. I took her to show the stud owner a couple weeks ago (she has a pup by her male from another breeder who is 2mos older), my guess is hers is smaller. I told her she has grown much faster than I am used to.

That all said, I feed Ruby the same way I have fed her mom, grandma, great grams, cousins, etc. over the past 20+ yrs. Euk LBP food plus fish oil/vit E, Glucosamine, MSM, BacPak Plus (probiotic/digestive enzyme), coconut oil and tablespoon or so of a green antioxidant mix. She probably has the most gorgeous coat I've ever had (the stud owner was ooohing over it as well). I normally don't get that kind of coat until mine are more mature, if even then.... so it just goes to show you how genetics can change things. The sire is not that big btw, and if he was at my home, would not be much over 80# (ie, in standard for a male) but is kept heavier due to showing. Mom was ~66# and nearly 22" tall.

[Abulafia]

Hm. Not sure I posted a 4 month old photo. Maybe the one of her with the border collie? That was about 4 months—when she was on her 3 cups / 2x a day feeding. She looks about like that now. Maybe a little leaner. Then again, she's lying down in that photo, so has more of a belly than when she's standing up. Don't we all. (Or at least: I do.)

Now that she's dropped down to 2# a week, she's looking leaner, but very muscular. Good for her body. I like it, actually, that the weight gain has slowed down even on as much as she's eating.

My sense is that H's growth rate is pretty typical for the breeders' dogs, which is what I am using as my guideline (they've been breeding for well over three decades).

You are also in WA, I see (I'm in the W part of the state). Your dogs are gorgeous, and I agree that Ruby's coat (I just checked your kennel's website) is amazing, and she's a lovely looking dog. Goodness.

[windycanyon]

Hm. Not sure I posted a 4 month old photo. Maybe the one of her with the border collie? That was about 4 months—when she was on her 3 cups / 2x a day feeding. She looks about like that now. Maybe a little leaner. Then again, she's lying down in that photo, so has more of a belly than when she's standing up. Don't we all. (Or at least: I do.)

Now that she's dropped down to 2# a week, she's looking leaner, but very muscular. Good for her body. I like it, actually, that the weight gain has slowed down even on as much as she's eating.

My sense is that H's growth rate is pretty typical for the breeders' dogs, which is what I am using as my guideline (they've been breeding for well over three decades).

You are also in WA, I see (I'm in the W part of the state). Your dogs are gorgeous, and I agree that Ruby's coat (I just checked your kennel's website) is amazing, and she's a lovely looking dog. Goodness.

Didn't you have a series of photos, w/ the last one standing and you mentioned you thought she looked a little lean there? Maybe I was imagining it... or thinking of someone else.

PS-- Found it. Different post but yours, right? Hello / Introductions I think she looks great in that last pic.

[Abulafia]

Yes, that was her in the water, a bit before 4 months, when I could just seen her ribs and her temperament started getting sketchy.

I upped her food shortly after, and her temperament calmed. She looks close to the same as in that photo, body-wise, but I can't see her ribs any longer (you can't see them so much in the photo, but I could in 'person,' and feel them quite distinctly) and, more importantly, her temperament calmed back down.

Other than her being *larger* (it was a few weeks ago now), her body type is pretty close to that—same food intake, but she's gaining less. More muscular, esp. in the legs. If I could ever get her to stay still for a bit, I should try to get a more recent photo!

[windycanyon]

She was probably just going thru a little fear stage or maybe just edgy due to teething. Puppies do stuff like that but usually w/in a couple days, they are back to normal again. Just be glad you don't have more than one young one! Good thing Kanzi has always been my serious puppy because Ruby more than makes up for it!

[Abulafia]

Yeah, I don't know what was. Didn't seem like fear—more seemed hungrier and fussier than usual, just sort of off. It was probably teething, as you say—she hadn't lost any teeth by then (that was three or so weeks ago), but she did lose one or two teeth (I think) in the past week. At any rate, she returned to her calm, goofy, happy self since I upped the food, so whatever it was, it seems to have passed.

Now we have adolescence to look forward to... (and yes, I *am* anticipating a fear stage, since we never really got one early on, though I was super fastidious about socialization. I think I'm still traumatized by all the visitors.)

[windycanyon]

Are you sure she hadn't lost any of the little teeth in the very front about then? Mine almost always start losing those at 15wks. Also see a bit of fussiness it in the whelping box w/ loose stools presenting right about the time they are cutting teeth at ~2.5 wks..

[Abulafia]

As of yesterday afternoon, she had lost perhaps two (on the bottom). I don't believe she had as early as 2.5 weeks ago. She certainly is now, but her mood's fine. She enjoys an iced kong or occasional ice cube—but I suspect she likes the ice cube because she can chase it all around the kitchen floor like a lunatic, frankly.

I will check her upper top teeth later today. I know I've been through human baby teething (first round; still in second), and this is nowhere near as bad!

[windycanyon]

My 2 youngest still rush upstairs when they hear me in the ice cubes. Now we do "fronts and finishes" and even the back up 3 steps for silly ice cubes...

[Abulafia]

Yeah, she's a dork. I think she is more motivated by ice cubes than by lamb liver. I should use it for her training!