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  • Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
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    1. #21
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      Blackboy98's Avatar
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      I am so sorry you have to go thru this situation with Winston. It is NOT his fault or yours. He is just hard wired wrong. One of those mistake made by Nature. Do your best for your boy and accept the outcome. My heart is breaking for you as you go thru this journey.
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      Sir Winston (09-14-2018)

    3. #22
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      lovemylabby's Avatar
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      I can't help but come back to this thread....I've been thinking so much about Winston and honestly, my heart goes out to him...

      This may not be a case of "he's just wired wrong", it could just be behavioral, maybe he needed to be in a one dog household. Maybe he was never properly socialized as a puppy. Maybe he's not getting exercise etc. Maybe there were signs all along, but nothing was done to correct it. And when this happens, these behaviors just escalate.

      He could have "fear aggression"...maybe he's confused as to where his place is within his "pack". There are so many reasons that are going through my mind.

      The OP mentioned the many wonderful traits that Winston has...and that he is a good dog, 99 percent of the time. This tells me, he's NOT wired wrong. We can't put all the blame on the dog. I just hope he is given a chance to be the Labrador he was meant to be.

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      Sir Winston (09-14-2018)

    5. #23
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      Black Labbies's Avatar
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      Sad and heartbreaking on all counts.

      My condolences with the unfortunate loss of your special Bailey. Godspeed little Bailey.

      As for Winston, have you had him vet checked/tested for any diseases and/or tumors?

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      Sir Winston (09-14-2018)

    7. #24
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      Sorry for your loss of Bailey.

      I am probably going to go against majority vote with "Labs Temperament is best in the world" etc. I love Labs, had them most of my life. The Lab that hit me the hardest, Tanner, was not a nice Lab when he was young. Yet he lived a full life and I miss him more than I can say. I let him go at 12 1/2 three years ago after a life most dogs can only dream of.

      However, early on, he had aggressive tendencies. I'm not sure what the issue was but at about 2 1/2 years old, he bit my elderly mother when she was going to feed him. My belief is he was too spoiled and I was working full time so he was alone a lot. My mother was fine outside of a mark on her arm, but the action was very concerning. He also growled openly at certain people (family members he would know) with no reason. I went to the Vet...I went to the Behaviorist Dr...I did this and I did that...I got him neutered at almost 3. The neutering helped a bit, but not completely. Behaviorist was a joke. I ended up using an E-Collar system myself with him with the rules that "nothing in life is free." It took time, and I was diligent, but he did come around. He did nothing without my say so and the pack order was cemented.

      When Tan was 4 years old, I got a puppy (Yukon) whose temperament was diff than Tanners. It was the best. Tanner and Yukon were wonderful together until I had to let Tan go at 12 1/2 for various medical reasons. Maybe I miss Tan so much because of all the work I had to do early on. He turned out to be a gentle black bear who stuck up for his younger brother for the last 8 years of his life.

      My vote is to do some review of pack order and training of your Winston. You are the Alpha...all other dogs need to abide by that. I found the E-Collar system effective vs. other more passive/public training methods, but you need to use the system right. If he is dog aggressive or people aggressive or both, you need to establish yourself as leader.

      I would keep working on your dog but keep him segregated when safety is an issue (kids, other dogs, etc.). If it turns out to be a medical issue, then that's different and you do what the Vet suggests.

      Leerburg has some great training tips and videos (although GSD based).

      Best of luck with your Pack!

      Bob
      Last edited by outrag; 09-13-2018 at 08:08 PM.
      Griffin growing up!

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      My Precious Tanner Boy 11/25/02 - 6/25/15 Will miss you always!!!!

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      Sir Winston (09-14-2018)

    9. #25
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      I just wanted to interject here. Labrador temperament is heritable, and Labradors with poor temperaments should not be propagated, so it is important to seek out a good breeder that focuses on the entire standard, foremost temperament. Many people think that it's all how you raise a puppy, and genetics do not play a role, and that is false. As you all know, I am a breeder, and we select carefully for good temperaments, and poor temperaments are never tolerated in a breeding program.

      Labrador mixes, and Labrador rescues with unknown genetic history can be unpredictable, and are not all created equally. It is unfair to lump them all together, when they may not have been carefully bred...

      Either way, there is no easy answer to the OP's issues. The dog has bitten two people, that alone the dog would have gone night-night a long time ago, because of the liability and fear of a worse attack in the future, one that killed one of my dogs would have gone straight to the vets office and put down. Rehabilitation of an aggressive dog is difficult enough, but one that is a sweetheart 99% of the time and you never know what is going to set them off is terrifying. It is a huge commitment, time, energy and consistency, and you cannot get complacent for one second, is something a lot of people are not prepared to do. With a history of biting humans, and the death of a housemate dog, I am somewhat surprised that the law hasn't intervened and forced the issue of euthanasia, or full time muzzling, house arrest, and other measures of safety compliance.

      Not all dogs are meant to be saved, look, I love dogs, they are a huge and passionate part of my life, and I have dedicated the last 15+ years of my life to this breed in particular in my breeding program. Sometimes ending the life of an aggressive violent and unpredictable dog is the right thing to do, and I am by no way minimizing the pain and anguish of this decision, and I am so very sorry you are in this position. You need to weight the pros and cons of managing a dog that killed one of your dogs, has bitten people, and that you have an innocent puppy in the house that does not deserve the terror of having to cope with that.

    10. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Shelley For This Useful Post:

      Annette47 (09-14-2018), IRISHWISTLER (09-17-2018), Jeff (09-14-2018), Jollymolly (09-14-2018), Sir Winston (09-14-2018)

    11. #26
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      You know, I think Shelly said it best I have been thinking of a way to clarify my answer. It was simple and crass. However I am a very logical person and go to direct yes no answers. So I had been wanting to clarify and been trying to think how to get my point across. Shelly pretty much did that for me.

      Yes genetics are very important to agression. So I wanted to clarify the lady at dog scouts. She did take an agressive dog from someone else to try to rehabilitate it. She later learned that the breeder that had bred the dog was actually trying to breed back in agressivness that had been out of the breed. I forget the breed it was German large dog. Anyway it used to be an agressivness breed and the agressivenag was bred out of them. This breeder was trying to breed back in the agressivness for what ever reason. The breeder was then selling the dogs it didn't want to breed for further purposes. So this breeders line of dogs were yes unstable for family pets. So yes this dog was just not wired correctly. Which you do run into this.

      Being the odd way Sir Winton was bred, as you now know there are reputable breeders and then not and with his history of other attacks. Unfortunately I would suspect Sir Winston unfortunately comes from sketchy background. He could actually be offspring from brother and sister oops litter. You just don't know for sure. If you can not find the breeder and don't know for sure you can only suspect the worse.

      So I got back to my original assessment, you really have 2 choices that I would consider responsible. 1. You already know. It would be time to let them go. Yes I know it is hard, however even hemi as much as I love him if he suddenly became a unpredictable danger I would have to say goodbye. 2. You have to basically isolate the dog, which can even make it worse and let the dog live out the rest of it's life. That's your option but you must bear it.

      Under no circumstances would I ever consider rehoming. Here is why. 1 sister and several people I know personally have rescued dogs and have had the dogs turn and snap unexpectedly. I can share the story of my sister. But similar things with friends.

      My sister once had a doberman she recued because people said the dog was having problems with other dogs. So it needed a home where it was the only dog. The dog just all of a sudden jumped on the couch where my sister was sitting watching TV and grabbed one of her nostrils and tore her nose all the way up one side. Several hundred stitches later she is fine.

      My brother in law, while sis was in hospital, took the dog to the vet, it had a clean bill of health. He brought it home. Then I will never forget, with tears in his eyes and streamings down his cheeks he grilled hamburgers and then put them in a bowl and went out to feed the dog and he took his gun. I have tears iny eyes as I write this as I remembered this well. And I will never ever forget it. However it was the right choice as he had a 6 year old daughter and a 3 year old son. Honestly with the history he had. It's only a matter of time and he didn't want to have it attack one of his children.

      If you were to re-home Sir Winston your only passing this on. He may never attack someone, then again he may kill or maul a child. He certainly does have the potential for either option. This is why as much as I love hemi and as much as he means the world to me. I would put him down if I was in this situation. I raised him from a pup. He is my responsibility, I would never be able to pass him on to another person knowing that he may also be responsible for taking someone else's life.

      Gonna go give hemi some big hugs now. I cettcerta do not envy you and your situation. I certainly wish you the best possible outcome. But this is a decision you have to make.

      What ever choice you make please know I will not judge you. This was the hardest post I ever had to write. I really honestly question what I would do. However those are my reasons why. Simply because I do love hemi so much I could not pass a risk or burden on to someone else. Hemi is my responsibility and mine only.
      Last edited by Jeff; 09-14-2018 at 08:08 PM.

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      Annette47 (09-15-2018), Sir Winston (09-16-2018)

    13. #27
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      Labradorks's Avatar
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      Jeez...while euthanasia is an option and may be the best choice, this is a message board and no one here is a vet or a behaviorist. Let the poor woman look at all of her options, talk to actual certified behaviorists, and make the best decision for her dog based on the educated assessments of the professionals that actually get to put their eyes, ears and hands on this dog. Good luck, OP. My heart goes out to you!

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      Snowshoe (09-17-2018), Tanya (09-17-2018), zd262 (09-17-2018)

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