Shall the Labrador Retreiver be Jack of all Trades and Master of None?

[dxboon]

There are still breeders breeding for the whole package. I evaluated 2 field trial bred litters last week, and have to say, the one litter in particular was VERY nice. Thankfully my friend has been considering overall conformation in her breeding program for ~15 yrs now, so this was 3rd generation for me to evaluate. That said, the stud and his lines have a lot of influence too! Same breeder and circle of training friends are also quick to remind folks that the current FT contenders are very steady, very biddable, even keeled dogs. The pros apparently (at least for the most part) don't LIKE the high rollers they have to beat down.

I think the field side is actually improving in "health" faster than most people here would know. Personally, I like to breed back to field every 3rd generation or so if there is a nice dog available to breed to. I will most certainly be watching the one who sired the litter I really liked.

Anne (PS our turkey day was good too, but it was a little lower key here as my one girl's temperature dropped and I am now on puppy watch! Had a good night's sleep though, for the most part.. I figure tonite will be an all nighter however.)

Best wishes on a safe and easy whelp for your girl!

[Piper'sMom]

Best wishes on a safe and easy whelp for your girl!

Assuming you mean Envy and sending you good thoughts for your girl. Tell Mata to give her some space

[TuMicks]

Not to worry. I'd like to second that and ask for pictures when they get to that cute stage where the are starting to look like labs... sorta.

[windycanyon]

LOL.... Actually Envy being one of those 50/50 blends (w/ a penchant toward FAST) surprised me w/in about 2 hrs of making that post w/ puppy #1.... a 19oz choc boy born IN HER CRATE while I thought she was resting (ie not even a peep and I was in my office on the other side of the wall)! Her temp had dropped but normally they start in to obvious labor and she was cool as a cuke. I had just taken her for a short drive to intercept some last minute supplies from my one field friend, pottied her, then put her back into her crate where she wanted to be. Final count is 7 and everyone is doing great. I wish all whelps were so easy and can't remember being that rested ever while whelping! And I got to watch my football team (MSU) play/ win today as well.

I think the puppies are adorable at this age, but I also think manatees are cute.

[Abulafia]

Aw, such wonderful news!

[dxboon]

Congrats on your new litter!

[Maxx&Emma]

Congrats!! What a cool mama, baby in the crate, lol!

[TuMicks]

Glad to hear it. Whew! You can't help but worry.

[Bamps]

Vs. Blood hounds... from what I've heard, they are just not terribly biddable dogs. They're hounds. But their noses are superior to labs. I'll have to find out why labs beat them out in tactical applications. Now I'm curious.

I have never owned a blood hound but I have had many various types of hounds both ground and tree hounds. Mostly Blueticks and Black & Tans. The reason probably is that hounds in general have a one thought process, in other words, when a good hound strikes, it will be on it until it trees, captures or dies. It may literally run off a cliff, run after game until it collapses etc. I am sure a blood hound is very simular. They are high strung and not at all like uncle Jed's "Duke" on the Beverly hillbillies laying around, so I'm sure the lab would definately be a better breed albeit the hounds nose may be stronger. Opie is my first lab and I was amazed at how easy to train he is, much much better than even my smartest hound ever.

[TuMicks]

I am wondering if bloodhounds (or any hounds, for that matter) show up in the obedience ring at the more advanced level. Maybe someone would have the answer to that.

Gentleman's hunt:

I stipulate that FT's are extreme in terms of distances... but conceptually, what they do makes a lot of sense.

Classically, N. American FT's are designed around the notion of hunting on flyways where the shooter is probably at some static point. (Like a camouflaged blind.) Now, this is not what FT's are in the UK. Our FT's are also more water-centric. Much more so than FT's in the UK.

So start there. Shall the Labrador Retriever do only what is done in the UK? Stated another way... shall we determine that Labrador Retrievers not be tested against N. American hunters' needs?

To which, many will say... "but FT's are NOTHING like hunting." Yes. See above.

If we answer "yes" to testing dogs against N. American hunters' needs, then let's talk about that.

* Should a dog be steady? (Sure)
* Should a dog be able to mark and remember more than one fall? (Sure... he might be retrieving birds for more than one hunter.)
* Should a dog be able to be handled to a bird he didn't see go down? (Of course. If a dog is on his way to a retrieve when other birds fly over, he may never see additional birds as they go down.)
* Should a dog be able to be handled to a bird he never saw, PAST one he marked, one he KNOWs is there. (Of course, you wound a bird. It's headed for tulles... you want the dog to get that one first, then the dead ones he saw go down.)
* Should a dog take the most efficient route to the retrieves? (Yes. It's probably faster. In addition, a big loopy line or hunt, disturbs cover... and the birds just may go elsewhere that day if you allow the dog to do that.)

If this describes how Americans/Canadians hunt... then, should we be able to test our Labs against these standard concepts?

I submit that labs of all sorts can be taught to do these things. That would be a dog for a(n) American Gentleman's hunt. You may not want a FT bred dog to accompany you to your duck blind. That's OK. If your dog can do that, then you have a great dog no matter what his genotype or phenotype.

But be sure. These are very tough concepts. In order to do them even (or maybe especially) at shorter distances, takes a tough and determined dog... one who will do ANYthing to get the bird. At shorter distances, the angles between marks may be tighter. At shorter distances, scenting conditions can be very confusing. At shorter distances in heavy cover, the less determined dog could cave in to return to a fall that was only a matter of feet from the line to the bird he should be getting.

I am not advocating for field bred labs. I am just trying to query (1) what people are talking about when they describe a Gentleman's Hunt and (2) if we should train and test dogs to do skills the N. American Gentleman may need in a working retriever.

And yes... FT distances are crazy long. I'm clear about that.