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    Thread: Sam is Sick

    1. #11
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      Sending good thoughts you're onto the cause no and thus the way to "fix it"!

    2. #12
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      I'm so impressed that your vet sent such a thorough email. I'm assuming our vets know how to use email but never have. I get phone calls from them as late as 9 pm-ish if there are test results I need to know. An email prior to speaking would give one a chance to come up with questions that a spur of the moment phone call might not so I'd like that. I hope you're on the right track now and Sam's looks (and poops) soon reflect it

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    4. #13
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      Sending lab board MOJO for Sam and you. Hoping you can pin down this problem and come up with a good resolve for it.
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    5. #14
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      Sam is Sick

      Maverick has the cobalamin deficiency but also a folate deficiency, so no EPI or SIBO. I supplement, per his internist, with 1000 mg of B12 daily and 800 mcg folic acid. He also gets 10000iu of vitamin a and 400iu of vitamin e daily for coat quality.

      Maverick had chronic diarrhea, gas, lethargy, poor coat quality, bad breath, and weight loss.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    6. #15
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      Sending good thoughts for Sam, I hope this is resolved quickly

    7. #16
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      Sending good thoughts your way. Your vet seems to be trying to figure it out. I am impressed at them keeping you informed as they are eliminating and figuring things out.

    8. #17
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      Sorry to read that Sam is sick .

      Seriously, find the healthiest dog in your hood who hasn't been on antibiotics for at least 3 months, collect the dog's turds and feed these to Sam one turd at a time over a span of several days. It's called
      FMT What Is a Fecal Transplant for Dogs and Cats? | petMD Also, up the probiotics to the max for a healthier gut flora for the SIBO.

      As for the EPI, that's what Zoe had all her life. It's difficult to manage, but it's doable. Feeding Zoe a homemade/RAW diet kept her alive, happy and well for almost 12 years. The ER doc at the end of her life was amazed that she lived as long as she did, considering that the average EPI dog lives to about 8 yo. Zoe didn't have diarrhea, but she'd vomit from time to time. Zoe also had 2 ultrasounds done to finally diagnose the EPI, bloodwork doesn't do it. Symptoms speak volumes, tests don't. Zoe was also on digestive enzymes and homeopathies which worked wonders.

      Sending you and Sam all the best wishes that you can manage this.

    9. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Black Labbies View Post
      Sorry to read that Sam is sick .

      Seriously, find the healthiest dog in your hood who hasn't been on antibiotics for at least 3 months, collect the dog's turds and feed these to Sam one turd at a time over a span of several days. It's called
      FMT What Is a Fecal Transplant for Dogs and Cats? | petMD Also, up the probiotics to the max for a healthier gut flora for the SIBO.

      As for the EPI, that's what Zoe had all her life. It's difficult to manage, but it's doable. Feeding Zoe a homemade/RAW diet kept her alive, happy and well for almost 12 years. The ER doc at the end of her life was amazed that she lived as long as she did, considering that the average EPI dog lives to about 8 yo. Zoe didn't have diarrhea, but she'd vomit from time to time. Zoe also had 2 ultrasounds done to finally diagnose the EPI, bloodwork doesn't do it. Symptoms speak volumes, tests don't. Zoe was also on digestive enzymes and homeopathies which worked wonders.

      Sending you and Sam all the best wishes that you can manage this.
      He east Linus' poop at least once a week (used to be more before I realized he was doing it) when he can get to it before me and Linus is uber healthy and I'm not sure he has ever been on antibiotics. He's been eating poop for a couple of years. I've tried raw, enzymes, pre and pro-biotics, raw fermented organic goats milk...all kinds of stuff...to no avail.

    10. #19
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      I challenged the vet on the tick panel. There is a tick disease called enrilichia and it causes low white blood cell count, but that is just one of many symptoms, the rest of which he has none. I asked her if a dog could have low white blood cell count if they had been fighting infection for a long time and that seemed to make sense to her. I don't know if the specialist has his file or just missed that this is not anything new. He's had these symptoms to varying degrees for two years and that is a really long time!

      So, the short term plan is to treat the SIBO and recheck the white blood cells in 2-4 weeks. If they go back to normal, then that means it was the SIBO. If it doesn't, we do a tick panel and whatever else needs to be done. Once he is done with the meds, we'll see if it was a one and done thing or if there is something wrong and SIBO is the secondary issue. Apparently SIBO can be a one off thing or it can be something else. Here's her email:

      "Excellent questions. Not in any particular order....The Royal Canin hydrolyzed diet would be fine. The key is to use a good quality low fat, hydrolyzed protein diet.


      SIBO can be from any number of things such as, but not limited to, genetic predisposition and triggers, IBD, or lymphoma. An endoscopic bowel biopsy is needed to get a specific diagnosis as to why his bowel is not absorbing things properly, thus resulting in a bacterial overgrowth. Per the internist, IBD, in his case, is most likely and in dogs like this, there is very promising response to the Tylosin, B12 and hydrolyzed diet combo.


      The neutropenia is unlikely to cause the SIBO. I checked on this. If a low count causes infection, it is usually respiratory tract or skin that we see problems.


      The low count could be from the SIBO though because other common causes of neutropenia are sepsis or localized bacterial infection, in this case, maybe his GI tract, esp if it's been going on for a while. This could happen if there is translocation of bacteria through his GI wall and his white count is trying to respond to that. If this is the case, then his white count should improve with treatment and we would treat and then check it again in 2 -4 weeks.


      So, for now, I think focusing on the Vit B12 injection, Tylosan, and diet is the best next step. We wait on the tick panel, and recheck his WBC and weight in 2-4 weeks."

      I looked up SIBO and his symptoms are exactly that. I got thrown off from the diarrhea part, because he doesn't have that, but apparently SIBO causes upper intestine diarrhea which is not traditional runny poo. Here they are:

      Symptoms and Identification


      Diarrhea and flatulence are the most common signs of SIBO. Chronic, intermittent diarrhea is most typical of the idiopathic form, with many dogs also suffering weight loss, stunted growth and/or generalized unthriftiness. Some dogs may appear inordinately hungry and may even engage in pica or stool consumption.


      SIBO is easily identified by noting small bowel diarrhea (characterized by limited straining and its large volumes) and finding large numbers of bacteria in the fecal material. Diagnosis of the idiopathic form is aimed primarily at ruling out all potential causes of secondary SIBO. Because these are numerous, the process usually involves X-rays, serial fecal examination (not cultures, which are notoriously unreliable), and sometimes endoscopy to test the upper part of the small intestine for high bacterial counts.


      Blood tests for the vitamins known as folate and cobalamine are also indicative of the process. High folate levels and decreased cobalamine typically result. That’s because folate is synthesized by the bacteria, and cobalamine is bound by them.

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    12. #20
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      Good that you're checking the Lyme disease.

      When feeding an EPI dog you need to predigest the food by cooking/blanching it.

      What type of enzymes and probios did you use? You need live enzymes and probios for them to work effectively. Goats milk is actually very fatty and hard on the pancreas. Your focus should be on good quality pre-cooked protein (in moderation) and carbs, yes carbs, 'cause Sam will need the carbs for energy. Have you tried 2 weeks worth of only extra boiled basmati rice, boiled chicken (we used chic thighs) and blanched and chopped carrots, beans or even zucchini and then added good supplements as found in CT Support plus - which also has digestive enzymes in it, or something similar?

      Have you discussed with your vet to have an ultrasound done? Thickening of the pancreas walls is a good indication that Sam has EPI.

      We also tried the vet prescription kibbles, with no luck.

      As for the FMT, does your vet know about this and its huge benefits? If not, read up on it for dogs - there are some really good YouTubes on it, and go from there.

      Continued best wishes.

      Edited to add; what color and texture are Sam's poops? Clay colored and greasy (you'll have to feel for the grease with your gloved fingers - ya, gross, and what we don't do for our special dogs, lol?.

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