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  1. #21
    Senior Dog Berna's Avatar
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    Yes Berna , RC , last lab had traditional repair ... he was 8 when repair done .
    And how did it go? Did you have any problems?

    We had no problems whatsoever, it was done on a young (hyper)active dog and the surgeon who did it told me it has a high success rate.

    That's why I am baffled when I read around here that is a fragile repair (no, it's not), that it shouldn't be done on young dogs (my dog was young and active) and that the recovery lasts longer than when TPLO or TTA is performed (no, it doesn't).

    It's also less invasive and cheaper (which makes sense - less invasive, more simple, you don't need expensive hardware to stabilize the knee joint).

    Consequently I am wondering, did you people who are posting against the traditional repair have experience with it that didn't go well, or are you simply copying what you have read on the internet?
    Cookie Black Snowflake
    July 12th, 2006. - May 25th, 2023.

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  2. #22
    Puppy ~~KK~~'s Avatar
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    Berna - my vet said the same thing. I also wonder why people say so often to not listen to the vet. Granted my vet cannot *do* a TPLO, but he has a decent amount of knowledge about the procedure and what happens after. He sees dogs after both. He said there is a chance the traditional would not hold, but he said it's probably a 10% chance. He said a traditional repair does not have the complications that a TPLO can have and when those go bad, they go bad. He told me that he will not do a traditional repair until my dog's growth plates are in a better position, i.e. at 6 months he wouldn't do it so if I wanted a repair at that age, I needed to go with the TPLO. Also, if my dog was upwards of a certain weight, he wouldn't recommend it. But, he said we should re-xray and reevaluate.

  3. #23
    Real Retriever 3ChocMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berna View Post
    And how did it go? Did you have any problems?

    We had no problems whatsoever, it was done on a young (hyper)active dog and the surgeon who did it told me it has a high success rate.

    That's why I am baffled when I read around here that is a fragile repair (no, it's not), that it shouldn't be done on young dogs (my dog was young and active) and that the recovery lasts longer than when TPLO or TTA is performed (no, it doesn't).

    It's also less invasive and cheaper (which makes sense - less invasive, more simple, you don't need expensive hardware to stabilize the knee joint).

    Consequently I am wondering, did you people who are posting against the traditional repair have experience with it that didn't go well, or are you simply copying what you have read on the internet?
    First, I am not against the traditional repair. I think it is appropriate for some dogs, but not for all. If my 9-year-old dog tore her CCL, it's probably what I would do for her. When my 9-MONTH-old dog did it, not a chance. Second, it IS a fragile repair when compared to the TTA or TPLO. That's not coming from the internet, please don't be insulting. This was explained to me by my ortho vet and it's not that hard to understand. The traditional repair uses a suture-like material to fashion an artificial ligament and you have to wait for scar tissue to build to stabilize the knee. With the other two, the surgeries themselves stabilize the knee. And they use hardware that is much sturdier than a suture (although still relatively fragile, which is why you have to be careful and restrict activity). Usually, young dog = very active dog, so maybe that's a generalization, but it's just semantics. All of these surgeries can fail if you don't follow proper post op instructions, but the traditional repair has a greater chance of failing if your dog does something stupid. And young, energetic dogs do stupid stuff all the time. My 6-month-old puppy leapt off the couch and onto my 2-year-old dog's back just last night.

    The traditional repair does not have a longer recovery time over all, but the initial recovery is slower than the TTA and TPLO. Which means that the dog is slower to bear weight on the leg, stop limping, etc. Some dogs that have a TTA or TPLO come out of the vet's office bearing weight and if they don't do it quite that fast, it's usually happening within the first week. That's not generally the case for a traditional repair, so in that sense, it's a bit slower. But overall, you're still looking at 6 months total for all of them.

    OP, you absolutely should listen to your ORTHO vet. Again, yes, your general vet has some knowledge, but he doesn't see TTA or TPLO patients in his practice day in and day out. Knowledge is one thing, experience is quite another. Yes, TPLO surgeries can go bad. When Lily tore her knee, I joined the Yahoo Orthodogs group (which is also now on FB). You see people there somewhat frequently with major issues like persistent infections, dogs needing plate removal, etc. Which is why it's so important to find a board certified ortho surgeon and if you can, get recommendations from people. When you interview ortho surgeons, ask them what their infection rate is. They should know it and be totally comfortable answering that question. Lily's surgeon told me before I even had a chance to ask. All of these surgeries have risks, and pros and cons. Do your research, come up with questions for the ortho and make sure you get them answered to your satisfaction. This is a lot of money and it's a major surgery, not something to be taken lightly.

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  5. #24
    Senior Dog Berna's Avatar
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    I am not insulting. I am just being realistic. Do you have experience with a traditional repair? NO.

    All of these surgeries can fail if you don't follow proper post op instructions, but the traditional repair has a greater chance of failing if your dog does something stupid.
    As soon as I took my dog from the hospital where he had surgery, he tried to jump into the car. However, he couldn't reach the back seat and he fell back.

    One week after the surgery he drove 600 kilometres at the back seat of the car, which means he was standing / turning around for 8 hours.

    Two weeks after the surgery, he was swimming in the sea.

    One month after the surgery, he was free to do whatever he pleased - he was let off-leash.


    With all that said, would I prefer TPLO or TTA over the traditional repair with a young active dog? NO. The only case I would consider TPLO or TTA is with a very heavy dog, for example a Mastiff or a Newfoundland. I don't like invasive procedures unless they are necessary, and I am yet to find a research that shows a significant higher success rate of TPLO or TTA over the extracapsular repair, or a significantly higher failure rate of the latter.

    And last but not least, when an Ortho vet certified in performing TPLO or TTA tells you these procedures are the best for your dog, he certainly gets more $$$ than he would if he performed the extracapsular surgery. It's really that simple.
    Cookie Black Snowflake
    July 12th, 2006. - May 25th, 2023.

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  6. #25
    Real Retriever 3ChocMom's Avatar
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    You have no idea what my experience is. Lily did not have a traditional repair, but my first lab did. She was much older though and our vet was absolutely adamant that we keep her confined for the first 6 weeks. We did and she did fine, but she was not an active dog at that point in her life.

    I think you took some unnecessary chances very early on in Cookie's recovery and you are lucky they didn't come back to bite you. Swimming is often contraindicated for knee injuries because of the kicking motion and I don't know of any ortho vet or rehab specialist that would advise that, especially in an uncontrolled environment like the ocean and especially not 2 weeks post op. I think it's irresponsible to post in a thread like this and give people the impression that nothing bad will happen if they do this type of thing because your dog got through it fine.

    You made a choice for your dog and so did I. They were different choices, so what? We both posted here so the OP could see different sides of the coin. Your way isn't better just because you say it is or because you belittle the advice of others.

    ETA: If anyone facing this surgery believes that their ortho vet is recommending one surgery over another because they want to make more money, find another vet. If my ortho surgeon was just out for the money, he wouldn't have offered to keep Lily for a week at no charge. He also wouldn't have done an extra x-ray at no charge when she began limping again at 6 weeks post op. Implying that is the reason behind any recommendation for a TTA or TPLO is both ridiculous and ignorant.
    Last edited by 3ChocMom; 10-30-2014 at 09:05 PM.

  7. #26
    Puppy ~~KK~~'s Avatar
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    I am truly on the fence about this. My dog has every problem known to man so if something is going to go wrong with either surgery, I am sure it will happen. My vet said he can have a traditional repair and if it didn't hold, a TPLO and other than 2 surgeries, there wouldn't be a problem. Yes, I realize 2 surgeries is not ideal, but he wouldn't be worse off going that route. Sort of like my OB said I could do an ablation and if that didn't work, get a hysterectomy. (I know, I am new here for TMI in mixed company, but that's sort of how I am visualizing it!)

  8. #27
    Kathy W
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~~KK~~ View Post
    Berna - my vet said the same thing. I also wonder why people say so often to not listen to the vet. Granted my vet cannot *do* a TPLO, but he has a decent amount of knowledge about the procedure and what happens after. He sees dogs after both. He said there is a chance the traditional would not hold, but he said it's probably a 10% chance. He said a traditional repair does not have the complications that a TPLO can have and when those go bad, they go bad. He told me that he will not do a traditional repair until my dog's growth plates are in a better position, i.e. at 6 months he wouldn't do it so if I wanted a repair at that age, I needed to go with the TPLO. Also, if my dog was upwards of a certain weight, he wouldn't recommend it. But, he said we should re-xray and reevaluate.
    KK , I think you should take x ray again and reevaluate as your vet suggested ..... Great that you are getting information on different procedures .... what really counts are the people who can see your animal and actually make suggestions that will benefit your animal .

    Maybe just maybe no procedure is needed ..... has your dog tried leash walking , no jumping , no rough play to give knee a chance ? how about supplements ? Brace ?

    good luck

  9. #28
    Kathy W
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~~KK~~ View Post
    I am truly on the fence about this. My dog has every problem known to man so if something is going to go wrong with either surgery, I am sure it will happen. My vet said he can have a traditional repair and if it didn't hold, a TPLO and other than 2 surgeries, there wouldn't be a problem. Yes, I realize 2 surgeries is not ideal, but he wouldn't be worse off going that route. Sort of like my OB said I could do an ablation and if that didn't work, get a hysterectomy. (I know, I am new here for TMI in mixed company, but that's sort of how I am visualizing it!)
    No your dog does not have every problem known to man ( maybe it feels that way ) it is not true though . Take one day at a time .

    Also to the others , I do not have anything against traditional repair nor the other procedures ..... TPLO or TTA may not be my first choice ( more invasive ) in my opinion ..... One also has to take in to account what and how much needs repaired on knee / leg , extent if injury ......... what is going to be best for the animal

 



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