Socialization & Almost 15 wo, No vaccs yet. Does anyone vacc at home?

[Laura]

I guess what I am asking is that if he a a well rounded, easy going, good temperament family dog, would off site socialization be HUGE factor if it happens at 18 weeks instead of 12? How important is that 8-12 week window in my situation?

I think how much it matters depends on what you plan on doing with him. I take my dog everywhere that is dog friendly and want him comfortable in all situations. This weekend, he is in the Niagara region with me. We went to the Falls yesterday. For that, he needed to be around people of all ethnicities and ages, crying babies, people in hats, wheelchairs, barking dogs, a crowd of about 50 people surrounding him, strangers pointing cameras at him, the sound of loud water, rushing cars, bicycles, etc. I didn't want him to be reactive in unusual situations, so it was my job to expose him to a great variety of things, people, and situations early and often.

In your case, I would not so much worry about how important that 8-12 week period was, as that ship has already sailed. Vaccinate him ASAP and start socializing him more now with a focus on what types of environments you want him to thrive in. Like I said, for me, that was everything. He needs to be good in the ring, at home, in stores, on city streets, hiking, and I could go on and on.

[Sue]

Pretty much to answer your question about vaccinating him yourself, yes it can be done. It's really very easy, since it's subcutaneous. There is absolutely no problem in your plans.

Follow the protocol from Jean Dodds and have him titered afterwards to be sure of seroconversion.

The only thing will be the rabies vaccination, it's not considered valid unless it's done by a licensed vet (or their agent) as you will need the certificate.

The major concern for a reaction would be anaphylactic shock. You will need epinephrine on hand, and all the odds are that it won't be used.

For those interested in what the latest protocol is from Dr. Dodds:

2013 and 2014 Vaccination ProtocolNote: The following vaccine protocol is offered for those dogs where minimal vaccinations are advisable or desirable. The schedule is one Dr. Dodds recommends and should not be interpreted to mean that other protocols recommended by a veterinarian would be less satisfactory. It’s a matter of professional judgment and choice.


9-10 Weeks Old:
Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV (e.g. Merck Nobivac [Intervet Progard] Puppy DPV)


14-16 Weeks:
Same as above


20 Weeks or Older (if allowable by law):
Rabies


1 Year:
Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV (optional = titer)


1 Year after the initial dose:
Rabies, killed 3-year product (give 3-4 weeks apart from distemper/parvovirus booster)


Perform vaccine antibody titers for distemper and parvovirus every three years thereafter, or more often, if desired. Vaccinate for rabies virus according to the law, except where circumstances indicate that a written waiver needs to be obtained from the primary care veterinarian. In that case, a rabies antibody titer can also be performed to accompany the waiver request. See the Rabies Challenge Fund website.

The titers after the initial series are not mentioned, but I feel that's an important part of this protocol. It should be done after a period of at least two weeks past the last vaccination.
Titer Testing - Dogs Naturally Magazine

BTW, re: holistic vets in LI: There really aren't any. We looked for one for another member in your area, and it was difficult, if not impossible, to find one.

Socialization. I think you'll be fine. A lot of people have misconceptions about socialization, in that it must involve exposure to dogs. It doesn't. It means exposure to people, situations, noises, car rides, vacuums ( ) etc. etc. An older vaccinated dog is a bonus, but totally not necessary.

See Ian Dunbar's site for the type of socialization needed, which by the sounds of it, you've pretty much done.
Why Don’t We Adequately Socialize Young Puppies With People? | Dog Star Daily

And the downloadable PDF:
https://www.siriuspup.com/files/pdfs...ppy_SIRIUS.pdf

I hope some of this info helps you and others. You're doing the right thing. Good luck.

[barry581]

In this age when mounds of information is available almost immediately at the touch of a finger, we can be inundated with so many facts and opinions on a subject, making an educated decision can be almost impossible. For every study that says one thing, there will another that contradicts it. You can find an "expert" to support almost any view on a subject. In the end you have to wade though all the data, weed out the BS, and do what you feel is best.

With that being said....

I vaccinate as recommended by my vet. I understand there are risks, but I feel the benefits outweigh the risks.

I socialize as much as possible, from the time the are vaccinated and can go out in public. Despite this, Sophie is still a horrible jumper. Been to class, practice, practice, practice, still a jumper. I deal with it. My first Lab was a kennel dog until I bought her at the age of two. Other than going to dog shows, she had no socialization at all. She was the most well mannered dog in public settings I've ever had. Bruce is good, but being a young dog, he still has an issue every now and then.

Once I release my dogs to eat, I don't bother them until I ask them to bring me their bowls when they finish eating. I feel that taking their food from them or messing with them in any way while they are eating will only lead to them developing a resource guarding issue. When I give them bones or other chew treats, I always offer them a treat in exchange for the item as I ask them to drop it. That way it's their choice to drop the item in exchange for the treat. They are both very good about the and will immediate drop the item on command, it also reinforces the drop it command when they have something they shouldn't have.

Brianosaur - there are a lot of really knowledgable people on this board, I've learn a ton of good things here. I've had Labs for 30 years, and thought I knew a lot. I can honestly say I'm not even close to having the knowledge that some of these folks have, and both me and my current dogs have benefited greatly because of the things I've learned here.

[Meeps83]

I wish to do puppy classes but they require vaccs. Maybe I'm different then most first timers but I have spent probably hundreds of hours over the last year, reading and watching videos over and over. I took off over a week from work when we first got him, to work with him. He has never home alone for more then an hour or two since we got him.

He was sleeping in his crate without wining at day two. Litter trained outside in less then a week. Bite inhibition in less then two weeks at home. He sleeps through the night at 9-10 weeks. He sits, comes and does down very well from about 11 weeks. We are working on stay. I have had him on/in wobble boards, tubes, wheelbarrows and many other weird things. He doesn't freak at the blender or vacuum. He has seen heavycoats, hoddies, backpacks, facemasks, sunglasses, ski goggles, ear muffs, ect. He doesn't chew on everything in site and does "leave it" without hesitation.

My puppy that I vaccinated AND took to different places to socialize can do all that too. While I understand your point, it's like saying a child that never leaves your house will be socially acceptable because you let them see all of your clothes. My puppy still goes to class, not because he needs to, but because he LOVES it. He loves the people, dogs, playing, and games. If we had kept him in our yard would he still enjoy it or would he be terrified and uncomfortable? I don't know because I wasn't willing to risk it.

I also only do a rabies vaccination, however I have the vet administer the puppy series of shots because they do lose their mother's immunity and from what I read, they lost it somewhere between 14-18 weeks. That's why it is a series because the mother's immunity will nullify the vaccine. Of course I may remember it wrong because it has been a year since I've researched it.

Also, 18 weeks is right around a fear period and they have already gone from the cute little "I'll follow you everywhere" puppy to the "outta my way I'm gonna do this myself" puppy. He might be fearful of "the outside", he might be afraid of "the outside", or he might be fine. It depends on his personality and how you react to his concerns or outbursts.

[Charlotte K.]

If "holistic vet" means a vet who does not believe in giving any vaccines, you might have a hard time finding one, I agree. Dr Sue Ann Lesser has a practice that specializes in veterinary chiropractic care. Dr Wen is at Hampton Vet in Speonk. I only know him from his Traditional Chinese Medicine herbals, which helped a dog with spleen and other tumors have better quality of life until they could not help enough against probable hemangiosarcoma.

[Maxx&Emma]

If I had to choose between puppy shots and puppy classes I would definitely choose the puppy shots so we could attend puppy k. I have personally noticed how big of a difference the early classes and exposure make. I have a 3 y/o that is rock solid and I can take anywhere. He has been exposed to classes, multiple people and different environments from 10 weeks. My 10 y/o girl was not and is very reactive outside her own home and property. She is fine in her own home and property. I started things too late with her and I kick myself often for that mistake.

[Snowshoe]

Our Vet brands herself as "Holistic" and is listed in https://www.civtedu.org/canada/ I think "integrative" is the key word. They all have to have studied traditionnal Western Vet medicine to put the DVM after their name. What else they studied and how they choose to apply it in each situation is subjective and personal to them.

Ours does like puppy shots and the one year booster for all but Rabies. Rabies is as demanded by law. Except she wrote me an exemption for Oban's rabies given his current health and I got him licensed by our Township anyway. Separate story, but the Twshp by law person didn't even know what titres were and didn't ask for them so I didn't titre for Rabies.

We did not do puppy classes. They just did not work out with my schedule. Oban was a pretty self confident, outgoing, sure of himself puppy and if anything the classes might helped teach him to temper his enthusiasm for all things new. I watched in horror one morning as he headed across the street to see the man delivering my neighbours newly repaired snowblower. The snowblower was running!!! I'd thought the noise of it would keep him away, nope. No more going out to the car off leash for him. But we did go out to as many safe places as we could. My Aunt's nursing home was great, the ski resort lobby (with permission) was great. The neighbour's older, vaccinated female taught him a few lessons out in the bush where few other dogs went. Another puppy two weeks older came for visits and walks in the bush. You can do it safely.

[SCDoug]

I have read every post in this entire thread twice. I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around the OP's current strategy. I hope it all works out.