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  1. #11
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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    Ask about prolotherapy. It's working well in the case of partial tears acc'g to the holistic vet I've been to. I had it done on my girl's neck ~11 yrs ago after a whiplash type injury in play and she's still fantastic to this day. It'd be my 1st step if I had a CCL issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by teej89 View Post
    Just got set up with a good ortho for next week, his wait was 8 weeks but I just got a call back and an opening popped up for next wednesday. Lets hope this is just a soft tissue injury...

    Thanks for the input guys!
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon View Post
    Ask about prolotherapy. It's working well in the case of partial tears acc'g to the holistic vet I've been to. I had it done on my girl's neck ~11 yrs ago after a whiplash type injury in play and she's still fantastic to this day. It'd be my 1st step if I had a CCL issue.
    I'll do that, thanks!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenC View Post
    When the dog walks normally, is there any limp? Is he toe touching like there is a problem with the foot? Typically that's a sign of knee problems...
    he only toe touches when he's jogging, if you look at him walking you'd never know he was hurt.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon View Post
    Ask about prolotherapy. It's working well in the case of partial tears acc'g to the holistic vet I've been to. I had it done on my girl's neck ~11 yrs ago after a whiplash type injury in play and she's still fantastic to this day. It'd be my 1st step if I had a CCL issue.
    We did prolo with our yellow girl when she had a partial tear (both our holistic vet and our regular vet agreed with us that Honey would have had to be sedated and crated 24/7 for the duration of her recovery...she was that anxious and hyperactive...she would never heal surgery otherwise). The first session went fine...she obviously had minor pain afterward but it was manageable. After the second session, the pain was so intense that we were afraid she'd start up with seizures again...had to pour Tramadol into her. [Note: Tramadol or other NON anti-inflammatory is what you use for post-prolo pain...the whole idea of prolo is to cause inflammation, not reduce it. I had prolo on my back and, as my doctor indicated right up front, it works best on fresh injuries, not old ones. It helped with areas I'd reinjured but left my original sites untouched. I was prescribed Ultram (Tramadol plus Tylenol...a no-no for pooches)]

    We didn't schedule a third session but Honey didn't seem to need it, at least not with just walking (and she didn't seem to want to run much after that).

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  6. #15
    Real Retriever 3ChocMom's Avatar
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    The problem is, a partial CCL tear cannot be definitively diagnosed without either surgery or an arthroscopic procedure to go in and look (most people do not bother with this, so many orthos will not discuss it, but it's a good thing to ask about if you'd rather be sure before surgical intervention). Drawer signs can happen with a partial tear, but the knee can also be stable with a partial tear. This is when conservative management can be successful. If the knee is unstable, then unfortunately, it will not heal on its own. And for a dog that is so active, and competes in hunt tests, I would think you'd want to get him back to normal ASAP. As others have said, sometimes a drawer sign will not present while the dog is awake. They instinctively tense the sore knee, especially when a vet is manipulating it. Sedation for this procedure is best.

    My 4-year-old dog has been through 2 CCL surgeries. The first was 3 years ago, she was only 11 months old, so believe me, I know what it is to keep a young active dog down. The first knee had both a completely torn CCL and a torn meniscus. She had the second surgery 2 months ago. That knee was less severe, my regular vet thought it was just a partial tear, but the ortho surgeon thought complete tear because she had quite a bit of movement in the joint when he sedated her (regular vet did not sedate). When she had the surgery on the second knee, it was discovered that her CCL was only 50% torn. However, her knee was unstable, so surgery was still the right choice. It sucks, I won't lie, but the way I look at it is this. Surgery is the fastest way to get your dog pain free and able to run around like a normal dog again. Their lives are already so short, I don't think it's fair to keep them down for long periods of time. But that's assuming the CCL is your dog's issue, hopefully it isn't!

  7. #16
    House Broken Sir Winston's Avatar
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    I'm going through this with Winston right now. He tore his first CCL when he was 2 years old. I got it fixed via the TTA procedure, and he's done great. I took 20 pounds off him (he went from 100 to 80). Now he's almost 7, and the vet said the other knee has a partial tear. He's not as bad this time. Last time he had a full tear and could not walk on it. Like your guy, my dog can walk OK sometimes, but other times he struggles. When he first gets up, goes up stairs, or when we were still going on walks it is/was rough. He cannot run, and he leans heavily on his good (repaired) knee all the time. I have an appointment with the ortho vet in the morning, and if he confirms the diagnosis we're going to immediately proceed with surgery. I hate it, but the sooner I get his knee fixed, the sooner he can get back to a normal routine.

    It is possible to rehabilitate a dog via conservative management, but it takes several months for scar tissue to build up and stabilize the knee (if it does at all). And even then, the odds aren't generally in your favor (I've seen 20 percent). The ligament itself does not heal - you're just banking on scar tissue stabilizing the knee. I think rest has a better shot with smaller dogs, but I don't fault people for trying it. The downside is you can rest them for months and often the knee continues to slowly degrade. When you do finally have surgery, you're still out the same cost but you have spent significantly more time before rehabilitation begins. It is an agonizing decision. I hate putting Winston through a surgery but I just don't see a good alternative. He's been favoring the leg for several months now, and resting him has not improved it.
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  8. #17
    House Broken Sir Winston's Avatar
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    Well, here we are again. After ~4 years of having two good legs, Winston tore the other CCL. The vet diagnosed it several weeks ago. I tried conservative management for a couple of months but the knee's joint action was getting less stable. Given my satisfaction with the service, professionalism and price of the ortho vet in Knoxville who did the first one 4.5 years ago, I called him again to schedule a consult and surgery. He confirmed my vet's diagnosis and performed the surgery today.

    Winston wasn't as bad off this time. It was a partial tear instead of a full tear. He could walk, but he would struggle on stairs, walks, when getting up off the couch/bed, and sometimes even just walking was difficult. He's also 20 pounds lighter now than he was when he tore the first CCL. Also, he has a repaired left knee that we needn't worry about tearing.

    The ortho vet said the surgery went well. There were no complications or abnormalities aside from the torn ligament. Winston did well under anesthesia. He was very happy with the placement of the titanium implements. Both of Winston's knees have the same plates and degree of advancement now. Winston's got some swelling but I'm icing the knee as I write. I found some hot/cold packs on Amazon that have a Velcro strap to hold it in place around the knee. Pretty nifty.

    Winston has initially been reluctant to use it since getting home, but he did use it some when I took him out to potty. Having been through it before, I am cautiously optimistic about the prognosis. I'm going to keep him crated and gated in a small room without any furniture until the post-op X-rays in 8 weeks.

    Today's bill ended up being $2,100. The guy's prices have gone up $500 since 2011, but he's still way cheaper than anyone in this city. Vets in Lexington are more interested in the TTA/TPLO procedures now, but the going rate is still in the neighborhood of $3,000 to $3,500. I have pet insurance, so I'm hoping to get reimbursed for most of the cost.

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  10. #18
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    whoops let this thread slide but took boomer to the ortho wednesday morning, it was confirmed a partial ACL tear by the drawer test. Went into TPLO surgery thursday and we get him back today, apparently he's doing great and putting weight on the repaired leg, but $3400 was a bit to swallow... especially with buying a house this fall.

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  12. #19
    House Broken Sir Winston's Avatar
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    Glad to hear Boomer is doing well! Now that the drugs have worn off and he's been able to rest at home, Winston is back to his usual levels of alertness and is doing very well on his repaired leg. He's walking quite well already. I just hope I can keep him calm even because I know he's super bored.

    The costs are killer. It's a horrible position to be put in when money is tight. I hope they can begin to isolate the root causes of these ligament injuries and enhance prevention efforts. I know way too many people whose dogs have been through this.

  13. #20
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    Hope both of your pups heal quickly and are running amuck in no time.

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