Originally Posted by
barry581
Same old argument. Labradorks I glad what you are doing works for, and I applaud your efforts. You keep talking about punishment, and yes, a e collar can certainly inflict pain and punishment. When training any animal, including humans, punishment and actions out of anger do not work in the long run. I trained air traffic controllers for almost 20 years, I trained CPR and first aid classes, I trained absolute beginners to ride motorcycles, I trained more experience motorcycle riders high performance riding on racetracks up and down the east coast. I trained sales and customer service reps.
With all this being said, corrections are not punishment. A correction is just that, identifying a behavior that is wrong/undesirable and making a correction to fix it. A quick leash pop is not punishment, it's a correction. If a trainee (dog, human, whatever) does not know when they've done something wrong, how do they know they've done something right? Brooks knows sit, he knows sit mean plant your butt and don't move until I tell him to. Let's say I tell Brooks to sit, and he sits, and I praise him and give him a treat, then I walk a step back and he gets up immediately. I repeat this action over and over and over, with the same results, he keeps getting up. He's obviously not doing as he's been trained, and he's basically self rewarding. I believe in his mind, he gets up, he gets a treat. Same situation, but this time when he gets up the first time, after he's had his praise and his treat, I walk over and give him a leash pop and tell him to sit. I walk away and his but stays planted until I release him. My actions were not done out of anger, and my correction resulted in Brooks complying with what I told him to do.
My dogs are well loved, well cared for, and not abused in any way. All of the training corrections I used are done at a level that lets the dog know they are doing something wrong, and it corrects the unwanted behavior. All of the corrections I use were taught by the two instructors who's classes I attend, and people who have trained multiple dogs to multiple high level obedience and field titles. All of them use prong collars, e collars, etc, and I've not seen any of them correct their dogs in what I would consider an abusive manner. Abuse is not inflicted by the tool, it's inflicted by the person who uses the tool.
I completely understand that you have strong opinions on these subjects, however it doesn't make your way the only right way. Everyone should choose the methods that best suit them, their situation, and mostly their dog. I don't believe it was TuMicks intention to say everyone should be using an e collar, and I certainly don't believe everyone should use one. When she started this thread I started checking out Hillman's methods, and I felt he had the best grasp on how an e collar can be used in a positive way, and now that I've been using them to train Brooks, I whole heartedly endorse this program. Brooks has NO physical reaction when I press the button, there is no pain, no vocalizing, no fear. What there is, is compliance with the given command from a distance, the same compliance I would get if he was next to me on the leash.
Have you even watched Hillman's video's??? If no, I'd suggest you do so, maybe it will give you an understanding of how this tool can be used in a positive manner.