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    1. #51
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      If that's the response you got on a 6 High Continuous... I'd wonder if you had the receiver on with the prongs making good contact! On the other hand... I can tell you, when a dog's adrenaline is running like meth through their veins, their brains just don't feel anything. It's physiological... think about the gate-theory in pain science. Well known phenomenon. Soldiers with serious wounds don't realize it until the fire-fight is over. Or they know they've been hit, but don't feel the injury. For a dog with that breeding (mine is the same... FC/AFC to AFC) a bird they think they can run down... that is like mainlining meth for them. That is the only stimulus that is making it through to their cortex at that moment. BUT... afterwards, it's totally possible the dog realizes... "oh, yeah. Damn... that burn was nasty. Better not do that again."

      There is a good case to be made for strong aversive training for things that put the dogs in serious danger. I can think about rattle-snake aversion training. Similarly, a dog that isn't steady on the flush (correct me if I'm wrong... I don't hunt but have talked with those that do) can get hit with a load of bird-shot.

      Now, having said that... what I'm finding with this Hillmann thing... less is more. Remember, my big problem is line manners. The whole issue for us right now (and maybe through the winter) is SIT quietly at my side until I tell you to go.

      For HT/FT people, the other concept that Hillmann (and Dennis Voigt) emphasizes is excitement. Get the dog all lathered up, excited as possible (adrenaline flowing) and teach them that they CAN control themselves when in that state. Because at the next HT, they will be as pumped as your BO was when that bird took off in front of him.

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    3. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
      If that's the response you got on a 6 High Continuous... I'd wonder if you had the receiver on with the prongs making good contact! On the other hand... I can tell you, when a dog's adrenaline is running like meth through their veins, their brains just don't feel anything. It's physiological... think about the gate-theory in pain science. Well known phenomenon. Soldiers with serious wounds don't realize it until the fire-fight is over. Or they know they've been hit, but don't feel the injury. For a dog with that breeding (mine is the same... FC/AFC to AFC) a bird they think they can run down... that is like mainlining meth for them. That is the only stimulus that is making it through to their cortex at that moment. BUT... afterwards, it's totally possible the dog realizes... "oh, yeah. Damn... that burn was nasty. Better not do that again."

      I left his reaction to the corrections off the story for PC. Vic

      There is a good case to be made for strong aversive training for things that put the dogs in serious danger. I can think about rattle-snake aversion training. Similarly, a dog that isn't steady on the flush (correct me if I'm wrong... I don't hunt but have talked with those that do) can get hit with a load of bird-shot.

      Now, having said that... what I'm finding with this Hillmann thing... less is more. Remember, my big problem is line manners. The whole issue for us right now (and maybe through the winter) is SIT quietly at my side until I tell you to go.

      For HT/FT people, the other concept that Hillmann (and Dennis Voigt) emphasizes is excitement. Get the dog all lathered up, excited as possible (adrenaline flowing) and teach them that they CAN control themselves when in that state. Because at the next HT, they will be as pumped as your BO was when that bird took off in front of him.
      I left his reaction to the corrections out of he story for PC. Vic

    4. #53
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      In that moment... what tools did you have? He was not getting burned to "teach" him anything. He knew what your command meant. It was not "unfair" (something Lardy talks about.)

      Or you could have let him blow you off and engage in a highly self-rewarding act. You could have ended up like me with a dog that breaks in the second series and then starting from scratch with puppy stuff and spending over 9 months rebuilding the dog's SIT and steadiness.

    5. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
      That is a monster duck. What do they feed them up there?
      Still sorting thru that, but consensus was they may have been left overs from last year. Whatever, it was a learning experience and I'm fine w/ that!
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    6. #55
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      Agree. Mine are pretty much at full attention at a 2 here but that's why we do collar conditioning too. Right? Hopefully everyone knows the collar needs to be pretty tight....

      Quote Originally Posted by TuMicks View Post
      If that's the response you got on a 6 High Continuous... I'd wonder if you had the receiver on with the prongs making good contact!

    7. #56
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      I don't know, Anne. Rocket Dog is happy with a buzz on a (low) 2. It has her attention, but not the way Zekesman is talking about. As I said we are on Traffic Cop Level 3 and hubby is tossing bumpers for me. She's been steady enough I decided to have him throw several into the same place while she sat and waited. Wasn't sure it would work or if she would come a bit unglued. She handled it quite well.

      The park we're working on is her happy place, and we need to do some of the same things in various places. Then we can probably start with tossing the bumpers with "Hey-hey"... and do another couple of hundred repetitions of that. Then maybe multiple throws with "hey-hey's", then doing that in a variety of places. After a few more hundreds of those, we can repeat the process with a starter pistol for another couple of hundred repetitions in various places. THEN, when we get through all of that... according to Hillmann, we're to move up to live fliers.

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