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  1. #11
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    Thank you Coalman. I will try to remember to back up my "diary" and see what I can do about pictures.

    Evan is there any particular modern, sequential course you might recommend? Especially for a complete novice/newbie? I had borrowed the gentleman's gun dog / Wildrose way from the library, but not long into that gave up. I got as far as the part where petting my dog was a reward and that I shouldn't pet my dog if they hadn't done something to reward them for. I decided then if that was training, we weren't cut out for it. I want to hunt, but she's my companion and a family dog too.

  2. #12
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    7/21/14
    Got to work and saw we had a visitor in the office, so put the choke collar and lead on Hailey before getting out of the car. Made her sit before opening the door, she tried to run thru and "charge" the guest and I popped her. She came back and sat right down. Walked the mail out to the mailbox. Came back and the guest was leaving. He held the door for us, again Hailey thought about jumping, but another pop with the chain and she abandoned that idea. Our best behavior around a new and exciting person ever. Should have started this sooner.

    Walked in heel position out to the plot fields at lunch, per our routine. Practiced our "watch" exercise. Put her in heel, sit/stay tossed the canvas bumper told her to "mark" and then released her. Started mixing in "no bird" and walked out and retrieved the bumper myself. The first time she tried to run out, but I caught her and put her back in heel, repeated stay and no bird. After that she would kind of "jerk" forward, but then hold. All but 1 time she not only returned the bumper to me, but put herself back at heel. Smart dog. One time towards the end she ran into the corn field. I told her to "fetch it here" and she brought it back. Had some free-time with the chuk-it, then walked around the plot practicing walking at heel. She tried to forge ahead a couple of times, but overall was nicely behaved.

    Going to observe at the dog club again tonight and talk to my new "connections" and find out what night(s) I can take Hailey back to the pond. Though with the rain in the forecast this week it might be a lost cause. Hailey will hang out with the Grandparent's most of the evening and we'll get a little frisbee in before bed.

    And some pictures from this past weekend. Nothing training related, just my dog and the odd places she finds to sleep.
    -img_20140719_190701_467-jpg -img_20140720_161922_835-jpg -img_20140720_122614_274-jpg -img_20140720_121458_416-jpg

  3. #13
    House Broken EvanG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.curtin2011 View Post
    Thank you Coalman. I will try to remember to back up my "diary" and see what I can do about pictures.

    Evan is there any particular modern, sequential course you might recommend? Especially for a complete novice/newbie? I had borrowed the gentleman's gun dog / Wildrose way from the library, but not long into that gave up. I got as far as the part where petting my dog was a reward and that I shouldn't pet my dog if they hadn't done something to reward them for. I decided then if that was training, we weren't cut out for it. I want to hunt, but she's my companion and a family dog too.
    Very old school, and a very incomplete course. You'll find virtually no top trainers who follow that method. I'm with you; if I can't pet or praise my dog when I like it's not for me.

    There are four programs for fieldwork that I would give my recommendation to. I don't do that casually.

    Bear in mind that one of them is my own. I've trained retrievers for over 36 years, and have learned from Hall of Fame trainers D.L. Walters (NOT Wolters), and Rex Carr. I believe it is the most complete, detailed, and easy to understand of them all. But shop around. You can see video clips from all of them on You Tube so you can get a feel of how you relate to each trainer. That's important because you will watch and re-watch to make sure you're clear on everything. The follow are the names of the programs, and who they are authored by.

    The Smartwork System by Evan Graham (me). Our web address is EVAN GRAHAM | Liberty, MO 64069 . Ask any questions you like, anytime.

    Total Retriever Training by Mike Lardy. His web address is Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy .

    Retriever Training Basics by Danny Farmer. His web address is Training DVD's .

    Those three programs are significantly better than any others, and by a good margin. My You Tube video clips can be found here: Evan Graham - YouTube

    Fowl Dawgs by Rick Stawski. It's a nuts & bolts program, but the information is good. In virtually all ways it is of lesser quality than the others, but is worth a look. Rick's web address is Minnesota Dog Training and Handling

    Ask questions here, or via email to rushcreekpress@aol.com

    EvanG

  4. #14
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    Thanks Evan, I will look into those suggestions.

    So, I have a dog with high-drive, but I failed to educate myself about conformation prior to selecting a puppy. I am not at all interested in breeding, so that's not a concern, but I'm wondering how her conformation may affect her ability in the field. Aside from her "houndy" look, which I know won't affect performance; she's roached backed and herring gutted. She has no forechest and I'm told she has poor angles. I know that other than poor representation of the breed, the top line (other than indicating a weak loin) shouldn't have too much bearing on her performance...but what about her straight angles? Is this going to make her more prone to joint problems or "breaking down?"
    It kind of makes me sad that she comes from a family of well performing dogs (I know they aren't the top of the FT/HT world, I can't afford that, especially since she was only ever intended as a companion, but I wanted dogs I knew were out there *doing* something), but that it should produce something with so many faults.
    It doesn't help that she's currently going thru "puppy uglies" as she grows.

    7/22/14
    We got to meet 2 new people today. I made sure she was on lead w/ the choke collar both times and she did very well indeed. While she didn't stay sitting she didn't make attempts to jump up on them either. I count this as progress.
    For our lunch break routine, I tried to focus on the same things as yesterday. At one point I put her in a sit/stay with the bumper not far in front of her and walked off down a corn row, well out of site. She stayed until I returned and right as I went to release her for the bumper, she broke. And things kind of went downhill from there. I did some more "no birds" and she'd be good for a retrieve, but then she'd want to break again, or she took the bumper off into the corn field 2 or 3 times and the bean field once. She'd just go back in there and lie down and look at me, but ignore any commands.
    That was frustrating, bc my first inclination when she returns is to discipline her, but I need to reward her for (finally) returning to me with the bumper. I didn't have a line with me, so I put her lead back on and we did a couple of successful short retrieves. Then I praised her and we played a little bit.
    We ended up being out there for a half hour. Maybe I tried to do too much for her puppy brain. Watching the higher level obedience classes lately, maybe I'm forgetting she doesn't know all that yet, lol. Must remember like people and like horses, I expect dogs have off days too.
    Hoping the storms hold off this evening and I can take her swimming.

  5. #15
    Real Retriever Coalman's Avatar
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    What a beautiful girl. You also teaching her to be your caddy?

    While training her yourself to hunt is admirable I can tell you from Bay, trained myself to Belle, being professionally trained I should had taken the Belle option with Bay.

    What I like most about Belle is she has been socialized and is a family pet and now she is getting the training she was bred for that is something that was beyond my time and knowledge.

    Looking forward to more updates and pictures.

  6. #16
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    Aww, thank you. She is a dog of many "hats." We call her "Office Assitant Hailey" at work, and she's "Farmer Hailey" when she decides to jump over the garden fence and help me...and now she's "Golf Pro Hailey"...we joke that she's "the most interesting dog in the world" and we're going to get rich when she starts marketing beer, lol.

    I understand what you are saying, regarding professional training. And I'm not saying we'd never do that with a future dog. We did not get Hailey to be a hunting dog, it just so happens she is high drive and this is more something for me to do with her that we can both enjoy. Honestly, I don't care if we never actually hunt, I don't exactly have any good duck recipes lying around, lol.

    7/22/14 continued
    We went out to Bill & Mary's to use their pond. They were out of town for the evening, so we were on our own and I just did my best to replicate what we had worked on with them the week before. And really what I had continued to work on, just without retrieving in water. I did let Hailey look around a little bit and take a short swim. She discovered goose poop, much to my dismay. And got rather sidetracked by that. Ick.
    Hailey has really figured out heel position - when she realizes I'm going to throw something. She puts herself into position. I wish this was transferring faster to general leash walking. She's not horrible, most people would probably be satisfied with her leash behavior. I would just prefer it to be "tighter" for lack of a better word.
    She tried to bolt on the first retrieve, but I caught her with the line right away. After that she never gave me another problem and was very steady. She was bringing the bumper back to the shore, but then would want to drop it and roll around in the grass. Since she was "off" earlier in the afternoon, I didn't think too much about it, I just worked on ramping up my excitement when she was on her way back (and I would slowly back up a few steps) and made sure she brought some retrieves all the way back and ended on a good note.

    -hailey-7-22-14-a1-jpg-hailey-7-22-14-b1-jpg-hailey-7-22-14-c1-jpg
    Last edited by a.curtin2011; 07-25-2014 at 11:19 AM. Reason: add pictures

  7. #17
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    7/23/14
    Hailey got microchipped this morning since I've decided to delay spaying her for multiple health benefits. Then we went to my Grandparents' in town. My sister just returned from a 6wk stay in Turkey (teaching English) and she and Grandma wanted to go to the theater. So Hailey and I stayed with Grandpa since he's not doing so great health wise. I took her over to the park across the street after lunch and we did some retrieves with the tennis ball. She was very steady and returned to my side every time. Much improved over the day before.
    We played some fetch that night for fun once we got home, but didn't really do anything training related.

    7/24/14
    Hailey got a free day. I was very tired and didn't feel like focusing on anything. One of my co-workers who has practiced going thru commands with Hailey at the office (just as soon as he knows she's learned something new, he wants to try it too, lol) took her in the afternoon to play some fetch. I appreciated it. Once we got home a friend was out helping mow and had brought his daughter's new dog. She's supposed to be a pit/lab mix, but I can't see the Lab just yet, lol. Sweet dog. So Hailey and Cami played for a little while and then we retired for the evening. I realized I've been neglecting the "watch" exercise the past few days and will remedy that.

  8. #18
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    7/25/14
    Started the morning with a half-dozen retrieves off the front porch. Hailey was very steady and I tossed in a few other words (donut, bacon, etc) a couple of times to make sure she was waiting for / learning the "Hailey fetch" as her release. Of course, it wasn't nearly enough for her, but we were running late for work. Will make sure to resume our lunch routine today.

  9. #19
    Senior Dog IRISHWISTLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvanG View Post
    I commend you for going to the trouble to attend classes. However, if you goals are for a quality hunting retriever those classes will only scratch the surface of the kind of training your pup will need to meet real standards in the field. The very same skills seen here will be what your hunting retriever will need in order to be up to the task.



    Get your hands on a modern, sequential course for real gundog training. You're wise to hold off until next season for his first hunt. Take this next year and really give him a solid course of training. You'll always be glad you did!

    EvanG
    I absolutely concur with Evan on realizing that uou are on the dog's schedule, he is not on yours. Do yourself a favor and order a sequential program of training and follow it. Rush the process so that you can hunt your dog this season and you will very likely skip steps and regret it fully. On that note, I am a strong advocate of Evan Graham's program, great material presented in a thorough and sequentially organized format.

    As for AKC vs. UKC blah, blah, blah. . . just try and align yeself with a training group of folks that are well versed and active specific to training, ye will learn much and have a great time along the way. The pup I am currently training is dual registered and I fully intend to participate in both AKC as well as UKC / HRC hunt test events, having done so in the past, my own personal view is that HRC is more in alignment with realistic hunting scenario's, but both organizations are fun and offer good programs. Some regions tend to offer more frequent events under one organization vs. another so just do what is right for you and your dog.

    Good luck and enjoy the journey, don't rush it.

    Cheers Mate,
    IRISHWHISTLER

  10. #20
    Puppy michael m's Avatar
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    Hello a.curtain,

    I used to be on here a lot before the "great website crash" and have just returned to the forum over the past couple of days. I wanted to point out one thing about a lot of these current training programs... they are all focused around e-collar training.

    I noted in your posts that there was no mention of e-collar use and that one was not present on the dog's neck in your photos. I was referred to here as an "amish trainer" because I don't use "electricity" and I liked that designation. I know that the Mike Lardy and Evan Graham programs all focus on e-collar use, so keep this in mind when looking over the programs. I also noted no mention of "force fetch", which is another part of the "sequential training programs". Again, I didn't force fetch as it was not necessary for my dog. Most here will answer that force fetch is pretty much mandatory for proper retriever training, but these same individuals will tell you to tailor your training to the individual dog. If you desire to Force Fetch, fine but if not, know that you can get true high level performance without it. You mentioned the dog your Father trained when you were 6 years old and the high level of performance obtained from that dog... I would bet that he was not trained using an e-collar, so you know it can be done.
    The choice is yours on how you want to proceed. Just airing a few thoughts for your consideration.
    Sincerely,
    Michael M

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