Trying a new trainer this weekend!

[Labradorks]

Good luck with training and however you want to do it. I am a firm believer that the WC is supposed to be a test of natural ability. Practice is one thing, structured training is another. Maddy required a little force fetching because she had no interest in the duck. Grace didn't get hers until she was 7 because she loves to fart around in the field. Jack got his at 6 because it never clicked that getting the dead nasty bird was actually a FUN thing. Jagger took to the duck the minute he saw it at 3-4 months and passed his WC at 8 months with one formal practice and a lot of fun bumpers. Jed and Grizz are knuckleheads and the light hasn't gone on in their brains yet....

My opinion, if you are going to be paying someone to train, I would train to the Junior Hunter level and aim for getting THAT title. Then at least you aren't really tossing money away for something you should be able to accomplish with a dead duck and some fun bumpers yourself.

I agree. And we are training up the levels. I guess I thought that was a given, as I've never been to a trainer that was not setting up students and dogs for the next level. Funny how they are all so different. Linus took to the birds right away, which was surprising. I have thrown some dead ducks for Sam who is happy to bring it to me, but I don't think it's because it's a duck, but because it's something I asked him to retrieve.

[Labradorks]

Irishwhistler has made excellent points. I am wondering what you consider to be "old school" methods that your recent trainer is using. The use and development of e-collar training has come miles from their inception. I once asked the trainer I used, who actually worked with Rex Carr, why he didn't write a book because his dog knowledge is vast. His answer was that he was continually evolving and that by the time he finished he would have thought of a much better way of doing things. His wife joked that he would wake in the night with the solution to a problem with a particular dog. I now use his son, as he is in his 80's and supposed to be retired, but every time I visit he is there telling me what my dog has done and what I should be following up on. It's like having two trainers for the price of one.You are having fun with the field training and that is great but you need to look further down the line. This game is addictive and if you want to go beyond a WC, even to the I and X you need to look realistically at what your dog's behavior is right now. You spoke of not wanting to have to unlearn things but you are at that point now. The dog needs to unlearn that he can visit the gunners, stop to pee on stuff (consider this a challenge), drop the bird and not return directly. I may be wrong but moving to strictly using birds may compound all of these problems. I know that I thought I could get away with out a conditioned retrieve with one of my dogs until the day (at a test) she put the bird down and proceeded to breast it. FF was started the next week.I wish you good luck with your dog and that you continue to enjoy the field work and have fun doing it. Ultimately the choices are yours.

I think of old school as using e-collars and forced fetches without necessarily needing to. I also think it's old school for a dog to do what is asked of him because he's afraid not to.

My training is above and beyond the WC, which I assumed was a given as I thought all trainers trained for higher levels. I am unsure at this point what we will compete up to as I am new at this.

He does need to unlearn his habit of visiting, but he also needs to learn what I want from him. So, that's the next step.

[Labradorks]

Today's evaluation/training went really well!

At 10 months old he retrieved a live pigeon and while he carried it back by the belly, he didn't harm it or do anything weird, just carried it however he could. That was the last time he'd retrieved a live/fresh bird.

So, today, he retrieved a live duck three times. He was very excited, not afraid of the duck, not trying to kill the duck, and the trainer was impressed by how smart and careful he was. He would pick up the duck, wings folded in, and carry it that way. Very soft mouthed, nothing weird or bad. We tried a sit stay until released, which he was able to accomplish. And, finally, he shot a live pigeon and Linus retrieved his first fresh kill without any issues.

His recalls were great, as long as no one was in the field. When we used a thrower, he grabbed the bird and went to visit and when the trainer shot the pigeon, same thing. He didn't stick around too long, and would quickly run back to me with the bird. There was definitely a new-found excitement in using the birds, not the bumpers. Trainer was surprised by his speed as he is a large dog.

Overall, the trainer was very happy with him and liked him very much.

So, need to work on the recall when distracted in a non-obedience setting.

Great trainer. Easy to work with. Loves what he does. Positive methods. And so much fun!

[Georgie]

Yay!! Congrats. Don't forget to take some photos!

[Labradorks]

I was just thinking... If a Lab needs a forced fetch to pick up a dead duck, shouldn't that make him ineligible for the WC as the WC is based on the dog's natural ability?

[Anna Scott]

The term force fetch is misleading. It is not intended to force a reluctant dog to pick up a dead duck. This may be why so many people are adverse to the conditioning. Force fetch cleans up many of the problems with obedience and technique. It enhances many of the traits that judges are judging during a test, such as style, trainability, control, response and delivery. In a test situation the judge is not just looking for the dog to run out and pick up a bird. There are many factors being evaluated and conditioned dog has an advantage.

[Labradorks]

The term force fetch is misleading. It is not intended to force a reluctant dog to pick up a dead duck. This may be why so many people are adverse to the conditioning. Force fetch cleans up many of the problems with obedience and technique. It enhances many of the traits that judges are judging during a test, such as style, trainability, control, response and delivery. In a test situation the judge is not just looking for the dog to run out and pick up a bird. There are many factors being evaluated and conditioned dog has an advantage.

I'm simply and specifically talking about a retriever that won't pick up a duck for whatever reason.

[AlexS]

I was just thinking... If a Lab needs a forced fetch to pick up a dead duck, shouldn't that make him ineligible for the WC as the WC is based on the dog's natural ability?

They are force fetched to more to learn to pick something up every time as well as hold and deliver to hand consistently. How does training anything take away from a dogs natural ability? That is like saying since it is natural ability you should not do any training and just take them to get his WC. There are also some trainers that do not force fetch anymore but do still use e-collars. Bill Hillman is a trainer you should look at. He believes in teaching a hold command as opposed to doing force fetch. He used to force fetch, but not longer does.

[Labradorks]

They are force fetched to more to learn to pick something up every time as well as hold and deliver to hand consistently. How does training anything take away from a dogs natural ability? That is like saying since it is natural ability you should not do any training and just take them to get his WC. There are also some trainers that do not force fetch anymore but do still use e-collars. Bill Hillman is a trainer you should look at. He believes in teaching a hold command as opposed to doing force fetch. He used to force fetch, but not longer does.

Thanks. We're working on hold with the obedience trainer.

I'm talking about dogs that won't pick up a duck, not a dog that needs to be trained to be consistent or to hold the bird a certain way, etc.

[IRISHWISTLER]

The term force fetch is misleading. It is not intended to force a reluctant dog to pick up a dead duck. This may be why so many people are adverse to the conditioning. Force fetch cleans up many of the problems with obedience and technique. It enhances many of the traits that judges are judging during a test, such as style, trainability, control, response and delivery. In a test situation the judge is not just looking for the dog to run out and pick up a bird. There are many factors being evaluated and conditioned dog has an advantage.

X2. Thanks Ann, I just don't have the energy at this time.

Irishwhistler