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  1. #1
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    Hmmm... skip junior?

    So Rocket Dog went back to the pro for further work with steadying. Because I am going to Scotland/Ireland in late August and into September, she will have basically spent the summer with the pro. She's a bright dog, catching on pretty well. Doing doubles. Handles well.

    The major issue will be me. I'm going to need a lot of coaching on how to manage her. We'll have part of September and into October when I return, then we button things down for the winter. I am hoping that during that time prior to winter break, RD and I gel. The thing is that RD is working well with the pro and advancing on many levels during this "post graduate" training. She's getting better about running doubles and her handling improves every day.

    We resume training in February. Assuming that RD and I are working together well as a team, I'm wondering if I gain anything by running Juniors early next year. Would she just be learning "Woo Hoooooo!!! sometimes we go for a long ride and I get fresh ducks and don't wear an e-collar"? That would be a step backwards. I can't really "proof" her steadiness, so I don't have that as an incentive to run juniors.

    What do you think the pros and cons of running early juniors in the Spring are?

  2. #2
    House Broken
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    I dunno, I don't see much point in running junior...at all. My young dog sure won't be seeing a junior test, and honestly might skip senior too. Might as well keep training and learning to work with your dog thru master level, then test

  3. #3
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    It all depends on how you bond as a team and the steadiness. Like you I have a young go getter and am struggling with the steadiness on doubles right now. I put a quick WC on her but had to use the leash or she would have been gone as soon as the bird hit the ground. Today we did a double and I had to have the throwers pick the first attempt up. It was a wide swing and as soon as I twitched she was gone. A correction and she was fine for the second attempt. I am only going to run one derby with her in August and then in September and October we put the JH one her. The reason being is that 2 of them are on home property. We will work in the fall getting ready for qualifying hopefully by then she will have settled. Next spring it will be qual and then maybe senior. Although the short marks give me heart palpitations.
    With RD I might be tempted to skip the junior and go right to senior if you feel you are ready. Is there an honour in the AKC senior test like we have in CKC. That is a big challenge for dogs like RD and M. The reason I run juniors is to get the dog acclimatized to test/trial atmosphere and get her running on strange grounds . Right now I feel we are doing too much running at home so will start to use other grounds in the coming weeks.

  4. #4
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    Oh, for sure, the honor will be an acid test. In Oregon I watched dog after senior dog break. The flier was first (?) then the go bird was thrown from a hedge row really close and the working dog had to pass in front of the honoring dog to get it. It ate those dogs up.

    But I'm sure you're making M honor in your training. We do, and all of our dogs are in a down stay. But holy moley, you can see RD eye-balling those birds and twitching... I think in her mind she's calculating whether or not she can beat the working dog to the bird.

    The pro we work with usually runs her young dogs in junior. She may have some reason I'm not getting. But she only has one other mega-high-roller on her truck. I know they did the JH on him then the SH. So maybe there's some up-side to it I am not seeing.

  5. #5
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    It is interesting to me that you have the option of skipping. In Obedience we have to work our way through the three levels as you can’t enter a more advanced level without having the earlier title. Keeps the judges’ time from being wasted by dogs that really aren’t ready, LOL. Most serious competitors do train their dog all the way through the most advanced level before starting with Novice, but that’s because Obedience is both competitive and pass/fail, and people do want to win (not just qualify) if they can, so a dog that knows the harder stuff in theory is going to be REALLY good at the easier stuff.

    In terms of benefits, I don’t know if the atmosphere at a hunt test (as well as your own demeanor) might be different, even slightly - i.e.. less relaxed, more formal, etc., or not, but if it is, it might be worth doing the junior level (even if you don’t do it enough times to get the title) just to get your dog accustomed to the “feel” of a test without the stress of difficult retrieves. Haven’t been to anything other than a WC, so I don’t know if there is much of a difference, but with our sport there is a big difference between a trial and a match just in terms of how nervous everyone around is and the vibes they give off, even if the tasks set to the dog is the same. This might especially be an issue if you haven’t done a ton of actual competitions - a pro who does them every weekend might be a little more relaxed and not give off strange vibes to the dog which could make them anxious.
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  6. #6
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    I think the judges in Master and Senior would probably agree with you. Matter of fact I have heard them say that "just because you got your JH, doesn't mean you're ready to run Senior." It's a pretty big jump: 1) you come to the line off lead. 2) your dog must be steady, though in Senior, you can have a controlled break. 3) Unlike the junior dogs, the senior dogs must go out on a blind and handle... stop on a whistle and take direction. 4) your dog must do a double, whereas in junior, it's all singles. 5) and the senior dogs must honor a working dog.

    I made myself run Bridget (who has her MH) in Senior to make my mistakes. (Repeat over and over... the dog's name is Bridget. Don't send her until the judge tells you to go. Don't point the gun at the judges... etc.)

    BUT, I gotta tell you, two dogs have never been more opposite. Poles apart. So I don't know if that experience even counts.

  7. #7
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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    I have had this conversation w/ several of my pup owners who wanted to skip JH but thankfully, did not. I think the environment is a HUGE factor that is impossible to reproduce in training (the sometimes long wait in holding blinds, the long days period, all the diversions of gunfire and whistles if MH is nearby, etc). It may be one thing if the pro is doing all the training and handling, but even so, a young dog is still a young dog and so much more susceptible to distraction. You can always try to run JH off leash too and use it as a training opp.
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    Annette47 (07-17-2015)

  9. #8
    Real Retriever Coalman's Avatar
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    off topic windycanyon but I love that picture of your dogs!

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    windycanyon (07-18-2015)

 



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