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  1. #11
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoutpout View Post
    I can get him to heel and move with me when he brings back a toy from the yard, and pick it up and catch up if he drops it. so i will work that with his dumbell and dokkens to see how far we can get, but pretty much if i stop moving, he drops whatever it is. Do you just keep saying "hold" as he's holding whatever, and heeling around with you? I have always said "out" whenever i ask for the ball/toy/whatever i am wanting from him, but he hasn't made the connection between holding it UNTIL that word is uttered.
    You are trying to move too fast w/ the process. First is working the Hold (Stay for the mouth) while sitting. I use numerous objects, some off weighted, some metal, some fluffy toys or otherwise "happy toys" that may entice them to chomp (and that's a no, since this is a STAY for the mouth). I actually use the Stay word early on while holding their mouth still, just to drive the point home. I'm tapping on those objects, pretending to reach for it (to see if he waits for the verbal or if he's anticipating the release if you've made the mistake of cookie-ing at the wrong time), you can move to his side, maybe walk around him and away from him while holding (he's still sitting there).

    When you start to move, it's only a couple steps at first and you may have to tell him NO, and put it back in his mouth if he drops.... you can't reward that. After he catches on, then maybe do a few steps and a Right turn. Add Halts, Call Front, About Turns, Serpentines, etc (imagine you are doing a Rally course only w/ him holding an object. He doesn't get to release it until he hears the WORD. Until he can do this w/ inanimate objects in a rather boring place, you really can't expect greatness in an exciting field setting--- esp if you are using birds.

    The Evan Graham Smartwork/ SmartFetch series is quite good. I have also used the Dobb's gold book (Retriever Training) and a few others in my own program here.
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    Scoutpout (11-18-2015)

  3. #12
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoutpout View Post
    I can get him to heel and move with me when he brings back a toy from the yard, and pick it up and catch up if he drops it. so i will work that with his dumbell and dokkens to see how far we can get, but pretty much if i stop moving, he drops whatever it is. Do you just keep saying "hold" as he's holding whatever, and heeling around with you? I have always said "out" whenever i ask for the ball/toy/whatever i am wanting from him, but he hasn't made the connection between holding it UNTIL that word is uttered.
    The way I taught it, after much trial and error and anxiety, was to teach him where to put the item. My hands. For my sensitive dog, teaching him what I DO want, not what I DON'T want, goes a looooonnnnngggggg way!

    Basically, I taught him where to put the item and when that place is not available, he holds it. Of course I have a name to it, "hold".

    I'm not sure I'll be able to explain this and I could not find the exact method on Denise Fenzi's website, (she taught it at a seminar) but I'll try. If you are interested, send me a PM and I can video it for you.

    The dog has to have a good pick up (retrieve, fetch, whatever).

    I kneel on the floor or sit on a chair with the dog and the object. I put the object on the floor and ask him to pick it up and bring it to me (the object is not thrown, just right there on the floor). He picks it up, I mark it (good dog) then say hold over and over while holding my hands out and wiggling my fingers in the same spot where you'd get the item. All I want is for the dog to put the item between my hands. I will even help him out and meet him halfway to set him up for success. As the hand meets the dumbbell I ask for the dog to give. At this point, the dog won't hold the item and that's OK! I just want to show him where I want the dumbbell. I mark (probably not with a clicker because your hands are full) this and give my dog a reward.

    If the dog drops the dumbbell before it gets between your hands, I will say something like, "almost!" and ask him to try again. I'm not mad or even indifferent. This is a game and it's all good. I think about this as teaching a child to read. When they mess up, you don't say, "NO!" you say something such as, "close! let's try again!". I tried going the "no" route and he became confused and afraid of the dumbbell. He did not know what I was "no-ing". It made our journey to the hold way more traumatic than it had to be and I had to re-teach the retrieve, dumbbell, everything. However, he was really wiggly with the dumbbell and that was because I was getting him too excited over it. So, when he'd drop it I'd look at the dumbbell and kinda go, "oh no, what happened?" in a quiet way to not get him too riled up. Think of a toddler who trips and accidentally drops an egg on the floor when you've asked her to help you back cookies -- you're not mad and you don't want the child to be upset. More like an "uh oh" and "that's unfortunate" tone. Dog dependent.

    Important to note, look at the dumbbell when you want him to pick it up and then look at your hands when you want him to put the dumbbell between your hands.

    It should not take more than a few minutes for your dog to get this fun game.

    I did this for a few days, five minute sessions once or twice a day.

    Then, I did it standing up, same thing.

    Then, I would walk away from the dog, backwards, hands on thighs, wiggling fingers (put it here!) and remind the dog to hold and he'd come after me to put the dumbbell in my hands. Talk about a fun game, right?

    Next, I would not move backwards, but stand up straight with my hands in position where I'd take a dumbbell during obedience and wiggling my fingers.

    This is about a week and a half in. I would then put my hands at my sides and move my hands into position as the dog got close.

    Finally, I would put my hands behind my back and the dog held the object. Over a month I would hide my hands longer and longer. And during this time I moved my hands from behind my back to my sides.

    I now ask him to heel and finish with the dumbbell as he may chomp with anticipation of me taking it, which is normal. If you take away that anticipation, they typically stop, as he has. I also no longer give him treats. The dumbbell retrieve has become a fun game, a reward within itself.

    Once he got it, I never asked for him to sit or be still, I let him figure it out on his own. They typically do when they get used to performing different exercises with the dumbbell in their mouth. He did. And, in lower levels, like the JH, they just need to get it in your hand. They don't need to come to front. If my dog was not getting that he needed to sit in front position with the dumbbell, I probably would have taught it with the box or a platform. His fronts can be a little far and a little crooked and then add a dumbbell and it' worse, so I've been using a sit box and it's working pretty quickly. If you use a sit box for your recalls and then you throw them into your retrieves once the hold is taught, he'll auto sit in that box with the item in his mouth, as long as he is solid with the retrieve and the hold. One thing at a time!

    Other ways, will, of course, work as well. However, a goal for me was an exuberant retrieve, coming as fast in as out, and good attitude both ways, including the hold and the finish with ears up, tail wagging and bright eyes. I did not want the ear down, tail down, whaled-eyed, slow trot to front or anything like that, and I feel this method has helped him a great amount. And it was quick!
    Last edited by Labradorks; 11-17-2015 at 03:43 PM.

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    Scoutpout (11-18-2015)

 



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