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  1. #1
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    Snort, squeak, squeak, snort, snort...

    Rocket Dog gets soooo... worked up. The higher she gets, the more she squeaks and snorts. At Rose City, she was squeaking/snorting her brains out in the holding blind especially on the final water series. And you just know the judges are hearing this, even if the dog is not under judgement until they leave the blind. And we all know that the noise is just the dog's way of saying "I may be steady on the outside, but in my brain... I am so out of here."

    Today is an off day. I have appointments and cannot get out to train with the group. On another web site, a professional trainer described a variation on non-pressure method of de-creeping a creeper. It's not denial, it's just waiting the dog out and letting the dog decide to do the right thing. Obviously, Rocket Dog knows the standard (you cannot go until your feet are right beside my feet.) Usually this means I'm reheeling her before sending her.

    This morning while it was cool, we went to our park with 2 bright white bumpers. I threw them out at 90 degree angles. And Rocket Dog butt-crawled her way to where her body is 2' in front of me. I just stood there and waited her out. Squeak snort squeak squeak squeak... this went on and on and on. Sure enough, after about 5 minutes, she looks back at me, then jumps back to heel position and gets quiet. And she got the retrieve.

    We were in the park for about an hour and she got 4 retrieves. But she had to make the decision to do the right thing each time.

  2. #2
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
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    This is a Fenzi mantra, actually, from Denise, to Hannah Brannigan to Sue Ailsby to the PhDs that are also trainers: You need to give the dog a choice.

    Of course, people who are not +R trainers think that means give the dog a choice to run amok or work but that is not correct. Obviously, you do not let the dog self-reward. There is an element of control, at least of the environment. Hannah wrote a good blog about this after camp last month. You might find it interesting: Camp Lethimmakeachoice It doesn't apply to your situation 100% but there are some good points.

  3. #3
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    I think it may be hard for someone who has not been around these field bred fire-breathers to imagine that they can focus. The impression some have is that they are wild and crazy ADD types. But to see a dog sit and stare at a white bumper 30 feet away in short green grass, quivering with muscle tension, ready to explode... for 5 to 10 minutes without shifting position... it sort of surprised even me!

    I read the blog and saw the parallels. You and I talked about how in field work, the dog must focus out THERE, and in Ob they must focus up at YOU. So, with this evolution... the sit-and-stare-out-THERE-until-you-think-about-ME-approach is a necessary hybrid. She does not have to look up at me. But she knows where I am and she knows her body is out in front of where she needs to be.

  4. #4
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    I've watched this behavior with several dogs we train with. I've always felt the handlers gave in too easily to the dog. I don't say anything as I'm the least experienced person there. The "sit, heal, sit, sit, heal, heal, heal, sit," etc from the holding blind to the line. One lady with a 2 year old chocolate male almost has to hang the dog to get him to sort of comply. She was told by a pro not to worry about it, the dog would outgrow it. That was a year ago when the dog was a year old. Now he's two, and bigger and stronger. Yeah good thinking Mr. Pro.

  5. #5
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    I have been very slow to learn this. Essentially, Rocket Dog is my first lab to train (even considering I have a great deal of help, and have used a pro for much of the basic stuff...) And this HEEL HEEL SITSITSIT NO HERE HEREHEREHEREHEEL SITSIT HERE NO NO I SAID HERE SITSIT is like Tourette's. Almost irresistible.

    A year ago, I could hardly walk her from the truck she was so out of control. Now, even at a Hunt Test... we can at least get to the holding blind under control. The only what I can do it is by starting way before my number is up in the running order and walking slowly in increments toward the line. If she starts to get ahead of me, I stop. So... even I know to do that. And I don't know much. If after a year of futility the chocolate's owner isn't trying something new... that's too bad.

    But waiting her out for 5 and 10 minutes... that carries it to a whole new level. I'll be going back to the park and doing this again tomorrow and we'll see if she gets the idea any quicker.

    Oh... BTW: Very interestingly... you may remember that Rocket Dog is dog aggressive. Well, today while we were doing this drill, a little fluffy white male (unneurtered) pocket dog came flitting through the park sniffing her bumpers and putting his nose up her tail and RD was like... "Go away, creep. Can't you see we're working here?" She was so locked in trying to figure out when she'd get to retrieve her bumpers she forgot to be on the defensive.

  6. #6
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    Oh, Wow! What took an hour yesterday was a matter of seconds today. Yes, she moved slightly when I tossed the bumpers. But almost immediately scooted back. I waited until her feet were behind my toes, and she scooted back some more. Without being told. Wouldn't it be fabulous if this "stuck" and became habitual in HT's when it's guns and ducks?!!!

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  8. #7
    Senior Dog Scoutpout's Avatar
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    its very interesting to see all the hard work "click" - she KNOWS what she needs to be doing before a retrieve, but now she is seeing she gets the choice to go or not if she is where she should be. very cool.
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  9. #8
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    Definitely. We have worked on steadiness with everything in her world. Getting her food. Going out a door. Coming in from outside. Walking to the truck. Getting into the truck. Getting out of the truck. NOW, however... we'll use the silent approach and stop with the blabbering on my part and make her choose to be in the right position before she gets permission to move.

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  11. #9
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    Tonight we did the world's S-L-O-W-E-S-T simple 4 bumper wagon wheel drill.

    (https://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/retrievers/rj09.html)

    Having her self-correct has cleaned it up sooooo much. I think a few more episodes of this and she'll be moving with me much, much better.

  12. #10
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    Starting today, we're doing the "dinner drill"
    -dinner-drill-jpg

    Boy, howdy... she lines up about 6 inches in front of me... then when I don't release her... she hops back three inches... then she'll hop back into position.

    We'll see today when we're doing marks if this has had any impact on her.

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