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    Thread: Two Great Days

    1. #1
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      Two Great Days

      A group of us spent two days this passed week training with the pro that I use. This is the fourth time he has come up to give us a workshop. I had one specific thing I needed to work with M. She is showing confusion when she has to run a blind off a mark. Particularly if the blind is between two white coats that have just thrown marks. She will pop and look back. So Don had me simplify the concept for success. We first ran a fairly simple blind, that she had to break through cover and then run parallel to the hedge row to get. She did this well. I then put her away and some of the others ran. I got her out again and we ran a double with a long retired gun. She made a real good effort on these. We then turned and ran the blind from the same line as the marks. There was no hesitation at all because she had been taught. The reason I say this is because one of the other participants then came to the line. Don let us choose how we would like to run the set up to get the most learning value. This handler chose to have the marks with the retired gun thrown, and he would then run the blind first (before picking up the marks) He insisted that his dog could do this. Well she couldn't and the whole purpose of teaching and giving the dog confidence was lost. I am not sure whether he was trying to prove that his dog was better than all the others or if he didn't understand that the reason we were there was so that we could teach the dogs in progressive steps. This was not the only time during the two days he set the dog up for failure. What really blew me away was after he had not really done anything in the two days that improved his handling or the dog's performance was he said why didn't we get the club together and go down to Don's to train for a day. It's a 4 hour drive! When we go we stay for a couple of days and work one on one with specific concepts because Don has built our programme. I suggested he do as one of the other club members did. She was really depressed thinking that her dog would never pass a master test. So after the first time Don came up she started to go to him once a week. In the two years she not only got her Master title but also her Grand Master title. She also went to last series of the Master National this summer. He needs to do the same but I am not sure that he is really willing to listen and learn.

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      IRISHWISTLER (10-16-2016)

    3. #2
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      Glad you got a lot out of the session. It amazes me how some people can waste their time like this guy did. I see the same thing with one of the people I train with. You can tell the dog really wants to please, but the time hasn't been spent with training like it should, so the dog is very unsure and fearful of getting things wrong, as the handler will nail him hard with the e collar. Sad really.

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      IRISHWISTLER (10-16-2016)

    5. #3
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      Quite sad that some folks will continuously allow their ego to negate the possibility that both their dog and themselves will ever know the joy of functioning as a team.

      Irishwhistler
      TEAM TRAD PRO STAFF
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      Joanie Madden, Mary Bergin, Adrea Coor, and Nuala Kennedy, each an Irish whistle goddess in her own right.

    6. #4
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      We call It trying to win the training day.

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      TuMicks (10-19-2016)

    8. #5
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      Barry, you are right about the collar. At one point Don suggested that the fellow relied to heavily on his collar. I over heard the fellow telling someone else that he wasn't using the collar because he had the wrong transmitter for the collar the dog was wearing and that was why he wasn't getting the correct responses and it looked like he was over using the collar.
      This same fellow wanted to see some advanced drills as he is running Master. We set up a split drill ( I think some call it a Y drill). Don could tell right away that the dog did not have the basics for this type of drill and tried to explain the beginning steps to get success. Again I think it fell on deaf ears.
      There are a lot out there that want to have the dog "run before it can walk". I am fortunate that I have the time and space that I can work everyday because building the firm foundation sure make it more enjoyable for the dog and myself when it come to the transition and advanced work. If I have learned one thing from Don and his dad it is be patient, break things down into small steps and simplify when necessary. Backing up is not a failure. Each dog is different so look for the strength in the dog and build from there. Right now I am working with my sister's young dog. Even though she is the same line as M they are total different. Huggie is like her great, great dam. She can mark a fly at 200 yds but sure hates to do a drill. Whereas M is up for everything, just let her rip. It is a game of amp one up and tone one down.

    9. #6
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      Anna... I would take the amped up dog. My older dog was reasonably talented, a smart little thing (she can just sit there on the line and say "yup, yup... I got this concept. I know exactly what this set up is." But she doesn't like to do drills (easily bored.) And she doesn't care for the water that much. In her little heart of hearts, she just wants you to shoot pheasant and geese from any field you want to walk and she'll get them for you lickity-split. So that's why I felt I oughta get a bit of a higher dog. Right! Be careful what you ask for.

      I feel sorry for this handler's poor dog. But I think it's so tempting, when you are maybe not in a regular training group, and all of a sudden, you have this wonderful opportunity to have multiples thrown, birds, guns, water and new terrain... WOW! And you try to shoot the moon rather than pick the lesson of the day that will mean the most for the dog's development and make that lesson meaningful and lasting for the dog.

      And simplification is essential for the dog, but also for the handler. I'm a novice handler. If I bite off too much, I could end up as confused as the dog. Do it incrementally and measure your progress over a week or over several weeks. Not try to jam everything in on one day. I have really appreciated having more experienced retriever people around me to give me perspective. They help me to judge if we're on track and have taught me to cool my jets (so to speak) and not get all ancey about getting to the Master stake right now. I think if a year from now, we've gotten our SH, and if she's starting to show increasingly Master level maturity in training...

      What's the hurry? Enjoy the journey.
      Last edited by TuMicks; 10-19-2016 at 11:26 PM.

    10. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by barry581 View Post
      Glad you got a lot out of the session. It amazes me how some people can waste their time like this guy did. I see the same thing with one of the people I train with. You can tell the dog really wants to please, but the time hasn't been spent with training like it should, so the dog is very unsure and fearful of getting things wrong, as the handler will nail him hard with the e collar. Sad really.
      Less is more (more often than not.) That is just... so... frustrating. Watch the pro's (the good ones.) They set it up so that IF they hit the button, it's for a clear cut infraction. (The dog has to come away from the event, with the thought... oh, yeah! If I'd do thus and so, I would beat the nick, or I can turn the nick off if I do it THIS way!) Otherwise you're either nagging the dog (using very little heat) or torturing the dog (with too much) but in neither case are you furthering the dog's training.

    11. #8
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      Yesterday I was hurting bad ( big change in the weather today) Anyway every bone was aching and M was higher than a kite. Her energy at times knows no limits so after doing pile work, running 2 blinds and doing a big ABC drill she was still reved up. We had one more blind to run. She popped so I gave her the correction Don showed me and she then finished the blind I put her up and ran Huggie. At the end we reran the blind and she committed a minor infraction that really got to me. I had that transmitter in my hand AND MY THOUGHT WAS I JUST WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOU A GOOD ONE YOU BRAT. I didn't because she really didn't need it just a quick handle. The lesson, however, is God will get you for those bad thoughts as when putting away the equipment I couldn't fine my transmitter. I spent two hours retracing our path. I was just about to give up when I moved the seat in the Ranger and there was the transmitter caught up under the back. So good thoughts only from now on so I don't end up punishing myself.

    12. #9
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      I have an old Tritronix, but I have 3 receivers. This TT works perfectly well... but if I lose the transmitter, how many hundreds of $$ would it cost to replace the whole kit and caboodle with the new Garmin? Maybe someday it will come to that because they aren't making or servicing the old units. Hope to put it off as long as possible.

    13. #10
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      I have several original Tritronics collars. I still use them all on occasion, especial the one Evander won at the Gold Whistle in 2004. The one I am using now is the last of the Tritronics models. I bought it second hand from a fellow competitor, as knew he would have taken really good care of it. It is a smaller unit and fits M's smaller frame better. Today was dentist day so she has not gotten out to train and it has shown. So far she has pinched me with her front teeth trying to get me to throw a toy, spilled a cup of tea jumping over the hassock to run to the door and gotten water all over the computer room floor from a plastic bottle she got from I know not where. Tomorrow we run drills even if it is cold and raining. The other day she picked up 18 bumpers running an older Butch Goodwin modified double T drill and still was looking for more.

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