I'm getting scared of my own dog

[Shotzi21]

Your dog sounds EXACTLY like mine was. Mine is now 18 months old and I got him at 7 weeks. I spoiled him because he was sooo cute, etc. Anyway, I had ALL of the same problems you have. First the biting....my arms looked like a homeless person. Never did I ever own a dog that did to my arms what this one did. It took me some time to get that under control. Then it was the jumping up and scratching and accidently getting my face, etc. The more I would tell him no....the more he would do it.. Then there was a period of time when he would go absolutely crazy for about 15 minutes at least once a day, then be sweet as pie. Then there was the mounting...I was knocking him off me constantly. Every opportunity he saw....he would come flying at me. All along, I continued to try everything I knew to correct the behavior but it seemed as though I was getting nowhere. Then he turned a year....and I noticed he calmed down slightly. As the months passed, he was getting better and better. Even his recall...he comes to me off leash 85% of the time now....stilll have a problem when he sees someone with another dog, but other then that he comes now. I take him to a place where he cannot come in contact with cars to practice this daily. He is 18 months now and he is far from perfect....but he has come a long ways. What I am trying to say is.... my dog is a dominant dog who had an owner (me) that obviously did it wrong from the beginning. With time, he became a great dog. So if you are not sure you want to give him up and think you can continue to work with him, IMO the worst is over....in the next few months, you will start seeing a big change in him and it will only get better from there. Don't get me wrong...mine still has his moments, but it is a far cry from what it used to be.

[Hailey's Mom]

Originally Posted by klcabe

Being in rescue myself, albeit with a different breed, I have to say that I seriously doubt there is a Lab rescue out there that is going to be willing to take a dog with a bite history - especially one whose bite history is towards its own master. It's just too much of a liability for a rescue to take a dog like this and place it out; if it attacks someone, it's going to be the rescue's fault for placing an 'aggressive' dog. That means that they either will not take the dog at all, or will agree to take it and then have it euthanized.

Isolating her from you and the rest of the family would be another thing I would do, whenever she exhibited aggressive behavior towards any of you. By isolate, I mean putting her in her crate in another room, or outside in a kennel or your yard if it's fenced. This is probably the ultimate punishment for a pack animal like a dog.


I would strongly suggest that you enlist the help of a professional trainer/behaviorist (after you have bloodwork done) that has experience dealing with aggression, if you really do want to keep your dog.

As per the OP's posts the dog is scratching and nipping, which in my opinion is a BIG difference than actually having a formal bite history. If she is unable to handle the dog placing her with a reputable rescue that takes in dogs w/ aggressive tendencies and rehabilitates through use of an experienced trainer is in the dogs best interest. She's already mentioned she has seen a profession trainer, but its the follow through that changes a dogs behavior.

Also, isolating an aggressive dog can actually make them worse. I realize you are involved with rescue, and I am as well. I've been a volunteer, committee member and the foster coordinator for an all breed dog and cat, no kill rescue for over 13 yrs and have a lot of experience fostering Shepherds we pull from Miami where many are trained as protection dogs. In the wrong hands these dogs can be a liability, but the dogs we receive are rehabilitated and re-trained so they can live social lives in knowledgeable homes. (I know this is a lab, but I am using our Shepherds to prove a point.)

As a reputable rescue we take it upon ourselves to make sure the dogs are publicly safe and placed in the right homes. We do this through evaluation, training, evaluation, training and so on. Yes there are a few that will never be placed in a public home like Theo an akita/ golden retriever cross. But the difference between him and Savannah, he left scares across a child's face and Savannah is simply pushing her dominance.

I think we can debate about the rescue aspect to a point, but we can all agree this dog NEEDS training, plain and simple.

[Shotzi21]

There is one thing that I'd like to add. IMO, when someone has a domanint dog and has never had one before and therefore has no idea what to do and screws up in the beginning like me and most likely the OP, it takes time to get that dog to the point of being a well behaved dog. It is trial and error and persistance...but it CAN be done by the original person who screwed up in the first place. One day....I would say mine was about 13 months...I was walking down the street and practicing making him sit right next to me when I stopped, etc. All of sudden.....my dog decides he doesn't want to sit and jumps up and starts biting me and lunging at me. Well.....I am embarrassed to say, we had a 10 minute knock down drag out fight right in the middle of the street. If anyone would have seen us, they would have called animal control. I had huge bruises on my all over my arms by the time we were done. Now I know I won that fight even though it didn't look like it when you saw the bruises. The reason I know I won is because from that point on....he never did it again and he sat when I said on our walks...I don't even have to say sit now...he just does it. So I'm guessing it was the fight for dominance. Now even though he did that to me....he has never showed any aggression whatsoever towards anyone else or any animals....only me. Thinking back on it....I guess about that time is when he really started to change and become a better behaved dog. I'm sure it all could have been avoided if I would have done it right in the beginning, but I didn't so we ended up in the middle of the street.

[whitejake]

There is a condition mostly seen in light fur coated Cocker Spaniels called "Avalanche of rage syndrome" This is described as they suddenly and aggresively turn on their owners and then just as abruptly return to their normal easy going demeanor. It is possible but rare that other breeds of dogs can also have this syndrome. If this is the case it does take a behaviorist to correct it and some life long training regime to keep it under control. Im no pro but just trying to see if maybe this may be the case for your pup. Jake is only 10 days younger than your pup and we have worked extensively on training and so far the only undesireable behavior still haunting us occasionally is his desire to jump to greet people. Im certain your pup can be brought full circle if the right diagnosis is made and whether it be in the training or medical aspect. I hope you can find an answer that will conclude with you keeping your pup. Best of luck and I hope you can keep us updated on what you might find out and what it will take to correct it.

[NC104]

I don't personally believe its rage. Her dog doesn't know how to behave and thinks its fun to scratch its owners cause it doesnt know any better. Dale was like this when he was a teenager. To be honest, her dog has their number so to speak. Itll be harder for her to get control of her dog then it'd be to bring in an outside party that knows what their doing and will put the dog in its place. Then as the owners they will have to follow suit.

Dale used to make one of my friends cry when she came over. Jumping, biting, etc.

I needed more training then he did, cause I had no idea what I was doing.

Untrained Labs are very boisterous and obnoxious. Remember this is how Labs play with eachother. Biting, lunging out of nowhere, pawing in the face. The behavior she describes is very very common in Labs.

[inthesouthrn]

Originally Posted by Shotzi21

Your dog sounds EXACTLY like mine was. Mine is now 18 months old and I got him at 7 weeks. I spoiled him because he was sooo cute, etc. Anyway, I had ALL of the same problems you have. First the biting....my arms looked like a homeless person. Never did I ever own a dog that did to my arms what this one did. It took me some time to get that under control. Then it was the jumping up and scratching and accidently getting my face, etc. The more I would tell him no....the more he would do it.. Then there was a period of time when he would go absolutely crazy for about 15 minutes at least once a day, then be sweet as pie. Then there was the mounting...I was knocking him off me constantly. Every opportunity he saw....he would come flying at me. All along, I continued to try everything I knew to correct the behavior but it seemed as though I was getting nowhere. Then he turned a year....and I noticed he calmed down slightly. As the months passed, he was getting better and better. Even his recall...he comes to me off leash 85% of the time now....stilll have a problem when he sees someone with another dog, but other then that he comes now. I take him to a place where he cannot come in contact with cars to practice this daily. He is 18 months now and he is far from perfect....but he has come a long ways. What I am trying to say is.... my dog is a dominant dog who had an owner (me) that obviously did it wrong from the beginning. With time, he became a great dog. So if you are not sure you want to give him up and think you can continue to work with him, IMO the worst is over....in the next few months, you will start seeing a big change in him and it will only get better from there. Don't get me wrong...mine still has his moments, but it is a far cry from what it used to be.

Thank you so much! That gives me so much hope. I don't want to give her up. I love her so much.

[inthesouthrn]

Thank you everyone for all of your replies. They have been very helpful. Yesterday I was at my wits end, as I have been several times, then I pull myself back up and keep going with her. Perhaps the reason she is getting worse is that our daylight is literally limited. Now it is dark when I go out to play with her in the mornings, and almost dark when I get home during the week. I know she gets lonesome while I am at work and she has pent up energy, even though she does have an acre of free reign within the boundaries of our invisible fence in our yard. I don't have the time to follow up on our training like we once did except on the weekend. I will keep trying.

Hmmmm.....and I thought I read up on all I needed to know about labs before I got one. Little did I know.

[BlackLabMommy]

Is she fine with other dogs? Perhaps she could do a doggy day care to get more daytime exercise.

[LauraNJ]

Originally Posted by inthesouthrn

Thank you everyone for all of your replies. They have been very helpful. Yesterday I was at my wits end, as I have been several times, then I pull myself back up and keep going with her. Perhaps the reason she is getting worse is that our daylight is literally limited. Now it is dark when I go out to play with her in the mornings, and almost dark when I get home during the week. I know she gets lonesome while I am at work and she has pent up energy, even though she does have an acre of free reign within the boundaries of our invisible fence in our yard. I don't have the time to follow up on our training like we once did except on the weekend. I will keep trying.

Hmmmm.....and I thought I read up on all I needed to know about labs before I got one. Little did I know.

Dogs will find a way to relieve excess energy, probably not to their owners liking. Dark or not, try to take her for a fast paced walk a couple times a day. Tinker, gets a total of about 2 hours of fast walking a day, besides fetching and off lead playtime and swimming. The walk is first, the offlead time is her reward. On the walk, I lead, she heels, no pulling allowed, sit when we stop. I often throw in a down here or there. I want her to be not only physically tired by the end of our walk and playtime but I want her mentally tired so when we go inside she is relaxed and well behaved.

Tinker is not a super high energy Lab but if she doesn't get those walks along with free time to run around and swim, I can see a difference in her behavior by evening. She is much more energized and will get into things. Best of luck to you and Savannah, let us know how it is going.

[klcabe]

Originally Posted by Hailey's Mom

As per the OP's posts the dog is scratching and nipping, which in my opinion is a BIG difference than actually having a formal bite history.

Yes, she did mention several instances of scratching, but that's not what I was addressing in my post. I was addressing the following statement: she has had and is continuing to have a very bad problem with lunging and biting. I mean full out, head down, teeth bearing trying to, and succeeding unless I move fast enough, biting me. This comes out of no where, she can be calm, letting me pet her, then all of a sudden from out of no where, she does it.

That's not normal puppy play biting. At least not the way she described it.

[LauraNJ]

Originally Posted by klcabe

Yes, she did mention several instances of scratching, but that's not what I was addressing in my post. I was addressing the following statement: she has had and is continuing to have a very bad problem with lunging and biting. I mean full out, head down, teeth bearing trying to, and succeeding unless I move fast enough, biting me. This comes out of no where, she can be calm, letting me pet her, then all of a sudden from out of no where, she does it.

That's not normal puppy play biting. At least not the way she described it.

I agree that if it is happening as described (with no warning, one second calm and the next aggressive- not playful) it is beyond normal play, that is why I recommended a full blood panel, including thyroid to make sure there is not a medical issue going on.

It is really difficult when someone has an issue and we can not see it happening. Perhaps the owner is missing the signs of the dog getting excited, or maybe it is just as described.
We are often left to offer only general advice, such as more exercise and training. Practice NILF with the dog, etc.

A video would be very helpful to see and we could all give more accurate advice if we could see the behavior occuring.

[NC104]

I'm curious what the trainer you worked with said?

[NC104]

Originally Posted by klcabe

Yes, she did mention several instances of scratching, but that's not what I was addressing in my post. I was addressing the following statement: she has had and is continuing to have a very bad problem with lunging and biting. I mean full out, head down, teeth bearing trying to, and succeeding unless I move fast enough, biting me. This comes out of no where, she can be calm, letting me pet her, then all of a sudden from out of no where, she does it.

That's not normal puppy play biting. At least not the way she described it.

Its hard to tell. She also said she took part in "chasing" and "tugging" with her dog. Thats the problem with inappropriate playing plus an untrained dog who left its litter too early. When they get big, and you have a 65 pound puppy, they think that play is still super duper fun.

I personally find it telling, all the times shes been hurt, including where she mentions she was on the floor with the dog, she was injured by claws not teeth. If her dog was aggressive, she could've more easily, bit her cheek off.

Sounds like she is getting pawed to death. As dogs do to eachother.

[BraethornSue]

Originally Posted by ZoeysMommy

Labs are challenging and unfortunately people see these older labs and assume that is what you are going to get when you get a lab pup, yeh maybe in 4-5 years you will have that laid back couch potatoe but until then labs needs so much exercise, mental stimulation and obedience. I just wish people would research the breed before they run out and get one. I apologize if im offending anyone but shelters are full of untrained, out of control labs and it truly breaks my heart into a million pieces.

Not everyone can handle a young lab- especially with a combination of inexperience and lack of motivation(if you want to be truly honest). Better the dog is rehomed now at 9 months to a very dedicated lab experienced home.
Dominant dogs need constant discipline and structure and loads of exercise.
If you are unable to provide this let the local lab rescue find someone who can. I know this sounds harsh but this is a textbook surrender case when it comes to labs..and don't think getting a smaller dog will solve your ownership issues- take the time to educate yourself on breeds and make sure your next dog comes with loads of breeder support and a temperment better suited to your lifestyle.
Best of Luck.

[uplander]

From what I read from the OP....

from the beginning the pup has seen its owners as litter mates..instead of the masters ....

Here is what you can do for starts.... anytime the dog is out of its crate...it is on the leash with a corrective collar on...(which you should have someone show you how to use) .. ...even out in the yard you have the pup on a long 30 or 50 foot check cord....training all the commands ..

get Tom Dokken's ...Training Retrievers $14.95 at Gun Dog Supplies
http://www.gundogsupply.com/tom-dokk...ning-book.html

you need to learn how to train a dog...and not the dog train you...simple as that....Dokken's book makes it easy with great pictures...he will talk about pressure on ..pressure off.... when you understand that you are going to be in control of your pup...

You start from the beginning with this dog it will be your best friend for life...