Nico Not Doing Well (very long - sorry)

[nicosmom]

Thank you for that information Patty. I am definitely going to look into both of them. In fact, since I have today off work, it will be an excellent time for me to call around to see if I can purchase these somewhere in town so I won't have to order online and wait for them to arrive.

[Patty/Breeder]

You can get Essiac at health food stores or GNC may carry it. They do carry alfalfa in tablet form at 500mg. I know for pain management you can give 1 500mg / 10 lbs of weight and divide between meals.

Not sure how much to give for cancer but I can tell you many years ago I used alfalfa for my HD girl for pain. She had developed a small lump on her chin that looked like cancer (her mom and grandmom had cancer) and after starting her on the alfalfa for the HD the lump dissappeared. If I remember I gave 2 300mg tablets a day back than.

If you have a health food store I would ask them about the alfalfa for cancer and the dosage.

[Black Labbies]

His heart looks good on Xray but he hasn't had a thoracic ultrasound. His spleen was removed in June as it had the cancerous tumor.

Oh boy, this just took my breath away . Please ask your vet about having a thoracic ultrasound done just to rule out hemangiosarcoma of the aorta. We've been there with 3 of our past Labs.

On a side note, we've been vetting Zoe lately for suspensions of Cushing's disease, but thankfully, her blood work and urinalysis results came back good. She showed most of the symptoms of Cushing's, and so I did my homework on it. One thing that is very important is to feed him foods that will support his kidneys. Some are; boiled chicken and its broth-fat skimmed off), boiled pork (no bones, and fat skimmed off), boiled eggs, barley (really good for the kidneys), brown rice--not white, steamed peas, green beans, and carrots. The diet should be higher in easily digested protein, and then balanced with grains and veggies. And yes, cancer thrives on grains, but if given in moderation, and the right ones are given, that shouldn't be a concern.

We're Home-cookers for Zoe's food so we switched her food to this diet. Although she may not need this diet right now, she's showing some signs that she will one day.

As for the traditional drugs available;, I had already decided that their aide-effects are worse than the disease, so started her on some natural supplements, and once her vet comes back next week, we'll go over these together.

Wishing you and Nico all the very best! Please feel better soon, old boy .

[wliberty]

I'm sorry Nico still isn't eating. I hope he is feeling better soon. Healing thoughts and prayers coming your way.

[judeann]

I just ordered a "doggie" version of Essiac to try on Lacie from this company:

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/produc...lick=6875&mf=2

I should get it tomorrow I think. I know I could get essiac locally but she is will resist any funny taste I can't disguise well. Did you find some essiac locally? Like Nico, Lacie no longer wants any dry food as her stomach is distended. I haven't decided yet about surgery. I feel pretty sure she must have cancer so am reluctant to have them open her up. I have her on Yunna Baiyou, the Chinese formula to stop bleeding. I am going back to the vet today for acupuncture and to ask more questions as it was such a blur last week when we were doing the tests. I hope Nico is feeling better today. It is a day by day thing isn't it.

[nicosmom]

What a week.

It has been up and down with Nico. I got him to eat chicken & rice the first day and a half, then he was turning away from it. I had to hand feed him to get something in his stomach. I couldn't tell if he was in pain or nauseous or groggy from pain meds or what. But finally, FINALLY, we think we know what is going on with him.

It's not the cancer, not his back, not his liver, not the Vetoryl. After blood tests and trying different medication dosages and Xrays, we think we know what has been bothering him so much......

His knees are shot. They are both arthritic and on one side it looks like a torn ligament. Well, he's in no condition for surgery so we are trying to find the right mix and dosage of pain meds and "safer" NSAIDS to keep him comfortable without taxing his liver too much. We're getting close. Tonight he was more alert and moved around better than he has in a while. He is still sore but is showing improvement. And I made him boiled hamburger and rice tonight and he seemed to like that.

I have been so stressed - between worrying about him, cooking for him, guarding his food from the other dogs, watching him like a hawk to see how he reacts/moves etc, helping him in and out of the house, going out with him to see if he vomits anything, hand feeding him etc etc - it's a full time job! Oh and I am absolutely swamped at work though fortunately, much of it I can bring home. So I've pretty much blown off working out and cleaning house. Work and taking care of Nico seems to take up all my time!

I'm interested in natural supplements that could help. Patty - I've seen you mention Lubrisyn a number of times so I'm going to check into that.

[Annette47]

Originally Posted by nicosmom

What a week.

It has been up and down with Nico. I got him to eat chicken & rice the first day and a half, then he was turning away from it. I had to hand feed him to get something in his stomach. I couldn't tell if he was in pain or nauseous or groggy from pain meds or what. But finally, FINALLY, we think we know what is going on with him.

It's not the cancer, not his back, not his liver, not the Vetoryl. After blood tests and trying different medication dosages and Xrays, we think we know what has been bothering him so much......

His knees are shot. They are both arthritic and on one side it looks like a torn ligament. Well, he's in no condition for surgery so we are trying to find the right mix and dosage of pain meds and "safer" NSAIDS to keep him comfortable without taxing his liver too much. We're getting close. Tonight he was more alert and moved around better than he has in a while. He is still sore but is showing improvement. And I made him boiled hamburger and rice tonight and he seemed to like that.

I have been so stressed - between worrying about him, cooking for him, guarding his food from the other dogs, watching him like a hawk to see how he reacts/moves etc, helping him in and out of the house, going out with him to see if he vomits anything, hand feeding him etc etc - it's a full time job! Oh and I am absolutely swamped at work though fortunately, much of it I can bring home. So I've pretty much blown off working out and cleaning house. Work and taking care of Nico seems to take up all my time!

I'm interested in natural supplements that could help. Patty - I've seen you mention Lubrisyn a number of times so I'm going to check into that.

Definitely look into natural supplements for him but I also wanted to recommend talking to your vet about Tramadol for his pain. It's not an anti-inflammatory, just a pain reliever but it is very safe and very effective.

Our vet put Scully on it when her elbows got to the point that even with the inflammatory aspect of the arthritis controlled via deramaxx, due to the bone spurs etc there was still going to be pain (her elbows are practically bone on bone - almost fused at this point) and she is doing very well on it.

[Patty/Breeder]

I agree with Tramadol. Here is some info on.

http://vettechs.blogspot.com/2005/04/tramadol.html

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us

And here is some info and links on natural pain relief.

http://www.heartypet.com/blog/?p=25

Alfalfa is on there too in powder form. You can also get tablets at GNC. Give 500mg /10lbs of body weight divided up into meals. Once you see relief you can cut down to 1/3 or 1/4 of that for maintenance. I used Alfalfa tabs years ago for a HD dog and it helped. Back than the recommendation was 300mg 2x/day. Had I know more was safe I would have used more. A breeder friend uses the 500mg dose with success for dogs and humans.

Prayers you can relieve his pain and get his appetite back. keep us posted when you can. I know the full time job of caring for a dog with issues and home cooking etc.

[Charlene-renee]

I am sorry you and Nico are going through this and sending hugs and prayers!

[nicosmom]

Thank you all so much for the advice. I'll be hitting the heath food store tomorrow.

Tramadol is one of the pain meds he was put on last weekend. We've had to play with the dosage because he was way too drowsy from it at first.

I had to hand feed him a bit of ground beef and rice this morning, then when I came home at lunch, I saw he had thrown it up. I stopped at the vet's on the way back to work to pay on my bill and told them of this. They told me I could bring him back and they could give him a couple injections to hopefully help this (they had given them to him last weekend when he stayed the night and they had worked). There was no way I could take the time from work (I am so busy I can't see straight plus we have a new boss. I have already taken off time for vet's visits and don't want to push it.) So they told me I could either bring him over in the morning or they would give me the injections and show me how to give them. I wanted him to get relief as soon as possible so I chose the later. The instructions were to not feed him but give him the shots when I got home, then see if he would eat in the morning. He is being taken off all meds tonight and tomorrow morning and if he eats and his stomach seems better, I can start back with some of his medication tomorrow night. But if he seems in much pain tomorrow, it's ok to give him a little Tramadol in the AM. So, I gave him his shots tonight. One is Reglan, the other is injectable Pepcid. I've never given injections before but it was easier than I thought it would be and I'm a little proud of myself.

It's really a catch 22. I know from past experience that when dogs are in pain they won't eat but if the pain meds upset his stomach, that will also make him lose his appetite. What to do, how to find the right balance is the puzzle.

[marley&me]

So sorry youre dealing with this. Sounds like youre doing a good job though! Sending good thoughts to you and Nico!

[BentleyK]

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. Bentley & I wish the best for both of you..

[Random Gemini]

Luck and love and hugs from Lu, Mu and Me.

[nicosmom]

Today was a good day!.

This morning Nico ate about 3/4 of his breakfast without any hand feeding. He was much more alert (following me around the house as I did the housework - I couldn't stand not having it clean any more LOL) though he did walk slow and somewhat gimpy. This afternoon, after he'd held his food down for 8 hours, I gave him a half dose of tramadol but that was the only medication he had. No problem with it.

I went out to the health food store and got some alfalfa. They also had the essiac tea but I didn't buy it yet as I was still debating whether to buy it now or order the "dog" version from the link judeann posted. Now I'm thinking I should do both! Go ahead and buy some tomorrow to get him started and order the other online.

Tonight I gave him the alfalfa with his dinner, which I am thrilled to say he cleaned up every last bite!!! Without ANY hand feeding! He's still eating home cooked so after he ate I put a handful of his dry dog food in his bowl to see if he would have any interest. He seemed uncertain at first but then ate a couple bites. Progress! It's not that I so much mind home cooking but I do want to make sure he gets all his nutrition so I'd like it if he could get back to eating at least some dog food.

There was one problem he had during the day. First of all - I had noticed that I hadn't seen him have a bowel movement for a couple days. Even though he wasn't eating much, I'm pretty sure he was constipated which might also account at least in part for his lack of interest in food and vomiting. Well, that cleared up too well today. This morning he had a very loose bowl movement and then this afternoon he had a bit of diarrhea. I know that with humans, many pain killers cause constipation so I wonder if this could have caused this with him. Taking him off almost all meds seemed to get things moving in a hurry. I gave him some canned pumpkin this afternoon which he eagerly ate so I'm hoping this will help.

Now I know I have to start re-introducing the medications and I think I'll do them slowly. Tomorrow I'll probably try the Denamarin. I feel comfortable with this. It's for his liver functions so it's important, he's never had any problems with it (been on it since August) and everything I've read seems to indicate it's very safe and virtually side effect free. It's made of SAMe and milk thistle. I think we'll leave the NSAIDs to the side for at least a while. Others I'll try one at a time to see how his tummy reacts.

I don't want to get too ahead of myself as I know things can change quickly, but at least for now, it looks like things are looking up for Nico! And I credit not only the stoppage of medication and diet changes, but also all the good thoughts, prayers, advice and well wishes from this board.. You guys are the best!

[Annette47]

Glad to hear he's doing a bit better today. I do know that tramadol can definitely cause constipation, although it hasn't for us but Scully is on a very low dose, but it was something the vet had warned us about.