Questions on Adopting Older Dogs from a Breeder

We are looking for an older labrador to adopt, one between 2-5 years old We found one that is a 4 year old retired show dog. She is good walking on a leash for showing her, but she hasn't had any other training besides house and crate training. She has been bred a couple of times. She has had hip and elbow and eye "clearances". Although she seems to be cross eyed. She has a botched scar from a Cesarean section. This dog has a great tempermament, though. The breeder wants $2000 for her and another $500 for her to be spayed. Is that fair and reasonable for an English Labrador?

Depends on what you think things are worth. Basic obed, crate training and maturity are worth something-- actually a lot . Hip/ elbow/ eye clearances are worth a lot. If puppy purchase in your area is 1500-2000 (which I'm guessing it may be??), this is probably pretty reasonable. NOt sure what the cross eye thing is about. Narrow eyes? Is the ACVO concerned? $500 for spay is VERY reasonable for that part of the country.

Is the dog a show champion or was in some shows and got a few ribbons? Paying what it costs for a puppy ($2000 is about right in your area) is reasonable, although I am not personally aware of breeders retiring their girls at full price. But that's just me. The spaying part, absolutely.

Just another thought, if a good breeder, the dog "should" have more than hips, elbows and eyes if she was bred...just my 2 cents. We're doing alot of testing now, the dog should have had it all. Worth a check on that too. Not that it matters to you on a spayed dog, but it would be a good marker on the quality of the breeder.

Fran adopted a bunch of older labs from a breeder, she might be able to comment on what she paid for them.

Not yet a senior at 4, potty trained, crate trained, clearances, walks on a leash without being leash reactive, basically healthy, no puppy shark teeth to deal with AND "This dog has a great tempermament, though."
The cross eye maybe thing will endear her to you. I'd run to give them my check.

I’m confused; if the seller (breeder) wants the dog spayed for health reasons, why haven’t they?
If you (buyer) wants it done for health reasons, that makes sense and should be done.
Why is one telling the other what to do as a condition of sale and having you to pay for it?

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Originally Posted by Bernie

I’m confused; if the seller (breeder) wants the dog spayed for health reasons, why haven’t they?
If you (buyer) wants it done for health reasons, that makes sense and should be done.
Why is one telling the other what to do as a condition of sale and having you to pay for it?

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They don’t want the dog bred anymore, and having it done as a condition of sale ensures that.

Between 1997 and 2006 I adopted 4 dogs from 3 different breeders. One was 3 points from his show champion title, but the breeder decided to stop showing him as he had been abused by a "pro" trainer she sent him to for field training. He was extremely fearful of men, with the exception of me for some reason, and that's how/why he ended up with me.

2 of the dogs were neutered, and the one female was spayed after she had lived with me for about 2 years. He breeder had considered breeding her, but in the end decided not to. I have no clue of any clearances.

I paid a total of $0 for these dogs. All of the breeders were extremely happy that their dogs went to a very good home, where they were loved and well cared for.

I'm in no way saying that a breeder should not sell a dog they've run on, and I can certainly appreciate the need to recoup a portion of the money invested in breeding and raising the dogs. However, in case such as this, where the breeder is retiring the dog from breeding, their main concern should be finding a good home for a dog that has contributed to their breeding program. In my opinion the breeder recouped their investment with the sale of the puppies, basically the dog served her purpose and no longer fits in to the breeders program.

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Originally Posted by Oak

We are looking for an older labrador to adopt, one between 2-5 years old We found one that is a 4 year old retired show dog. She is good walking on a leash for showing her, but she hasn't had any other training besides house and crate training. She has been bred a couple of times. She has had hip and elbow and eye "clearances". Although she seems to be cross eyed. She has a botched scar from a Cesarean section. This dog has a great tempermament, though. The breeder wants $2000 for her and another $500 for her to be spayed. Is that fair and reasonable for an English Labrador?

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House, crate and leash training is fine, at least you know she wasn't a kennel dog with low socialization skills. A good obedience class to help her learn the rest of what you would like from her would be a great way to bond. Passing hip, elbow and eye scores are nice, she should have had some genetic testing as well, and a cardiac echocardiogram.

I am concerned that you don't seem excited about her, she "seems to be cross eyed", doesn't have a lot of training, and the botched scar thing, there seems to be a lot about her that you don't like. What in the world is a botched c section scar? As long as it is healed and she is doing well, that should not be problematic.

Like Jen said above, I don't see a lot of adults going for full puppy price, their breeders are usually just concerned with finding a loving home for those that they retire and don't keep. I also usually spay and recover the girls (I would with males too, but I don't keep boys here) before they leave my house with a full registration, just so I know there will be no accidental litter(s).

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Originally Posted by Annette47

They don’t want the dog bred anymore, and having it done as a condition of sale ensures that.

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Bingo!

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Originally Posted by barry581

Between 1997 and 2006 I adopted 4 dogs from 3 different breeders. One was 3 points from his show champion title, but the breeder decided to stop showing him as he had been abused by a "pro" trainer she sent him to for field training. He was extremely fearful of men, with the exception of me for some reason, and that's how/why he ended up with me.

2 of the dogs were neutered, and the one female was spayed after she had lived with me for about 2 years. He breeder had considered breeding her, but in the end decided not to. I have no clue of any clearances.

I paid a total of $0 for these dogs. All of the breeders were extremely happy that their dogs went to a very good home, where they were loved and well cared for.

I'm in no way saying that a breeder should not sell a dog they've run on, and I can certainly appreciate the need to recoup a portion of the money invested in breeding and raising the dogs. However, in case such as this, where the breeder is retiring the dog from breeding, their main concern should be finding a good home for a dog that has contributed to their breeding program. In my opinion the breeder recouped their investment with the sale of the puppies, basically the dog served her purpose and no longer fits in to the breeders program.

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Couldn't agree more. Charging puppy price seems way over the top. Just my opinion though.

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Originally Posted by Bernie

Bingo!

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And your point is???

Actually, never mind ... I don’t think I want to know.

I know this might not be a popular sentiment among breeders, but I don't think a dog like that should be sold for as much as a puppy. The breeder is usually rehoming the dog because it is no longer useful to them. The dog has had her litters and done her time in the ring and now the breeder wants to bring up a new prospect. I am not saying the breeder is a bad person for rehoming the dog. In fact, I think it is very kind and a selfless act on the part of the breeder for a dog in a breeder home to be rehomed into a household where there are fewer dogs and more attention with the opportunity to live in the house with their people 24/7 (in some cases, breeder dogs live in kennels at least part time) and maybe have a new job if the dog leaves the show business and is bored.

As a new owner of one of these dogs, why would they care that the dog was pointed or an AKC GCH? Or that the dog's litters of puppies were awesome? They will not benefit at all from any of that if the dog is spayed, other than the health clearances. If the dog was trained for a sport (obedience, field work, agility, rally, etc.) then I can see the value going up because it's above and beyond the normal training that any four year old dog would typically have, which is a benefit to the new owner.

If the breeder can get the money and ensure that the dog has an amazing retirement home, then more power to them! And, for some, the value of a house trained, socialized dog that probably won't change in temperament is worth a lot - you know what you are getting temperament wise and don't have to deal with the teeth and the house breaking or the crate training, etc. For someone like me, the value of a dog that can be shaped and molded into what I want is worth more money PLUS dealing with a puppy (which I really love, teeth and all!).

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Originally Posted by Annette47

And your point is???

Actually, never mind ... I don’t think I want to know.

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My point was; why in-the-hell would the breeder expect the buyer to pay for this?
This whole idea is an example of- "they saw you coming."

Sounds expensive.i seen 3_5k$ for a young companion Labradors for sale. These are fully trained labs at 1 yr.

At 4 you do not know how many quality years you will get for the money .

Sounds expensive when one get a full training. 1 yr olds for a little more or same if you include the medical stuff.

Also so many labs are at rescues who will jump for a 4 yr old plus for adoptions.plus most will come complete vetted ,trained and a foster who will have alot of info.

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Originally Posted by silverfz

Sounds expensive.i seen 3_5k$ for a young companion Labradors for sale. These are fully trained labs at 1 yr.

At 4 you do not know how many quality years you will get for the money .

Sounds expensive when one get a full training. 1 yr olds for a little more or same if you include the medical stuff.

Also so many labs are at rescues who will jump for a 4 yr old plus for adoptions.plus most will come complete vetted ,trained and a foster who will have alot of info.

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Four is still quite young for a Lab. It's true that rescues are a lot less expensive, but by four many have been bounced around from home to home, have lived in a backyard for four years, are from low quality breeders who produce dogs without health clearances and with questionable temperaments. Sometimes you get lucky and there is a really nice dog that lived with a responsible family who had some sort of an emergency, but those are few and far between. Most people who give up a dog are simply irresponsible. There are many diamonds in the rough in rescue and with some work plus luck, you can get yourself a really nice dog.

Actually, I'd argue about a lab being "fully trained" at 1 yo. Haven't seen one yet that was fully trained, even on a pro's truck. But you are correct, it's not unusual to see that price for a "started" dog.

As for pricing on a "retired" bitch/ dog, this is a 4yo. I consider 4 to be a fantastic age because what you see is what you get temperament, soundness, etc wise! For $2000 the new owner will have a dog that will likely be w/ them at least 8 more yrs. That's $250/ yr. Add in the spay, that's still nothing.

I hear of Rescues charging as much as $800, so why would a breeder NOT charge significantly more for the value added? Sure they could just give the dog to a friend too. I have done that as well, but my girl was already 7.5 yrs old (she lived another 5 yrs) and was very well trained. These folks may be operating as a business too, and just trying to cover their expenses. I don't see $2000 to be outrageous at all, especially when you look at the average cost of puppy shots/ vet visits that first year.

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Originally Posted by silverfz

Sounds expensive.i seen 3_5k$ for a young companion Labradors for sale. These are fully trained labs at 1 yr.

At 4 you do not know how many quality years you will get for the money .

Sounds expensive when one get a full training. 1 yr olds for a little more or same if you include the medical stuff.

Also so many labs are at rescues who will jump for a 4 yr old plus for adoptions.plus most will come complete vetted ,trained and a foster who will have alot of info.

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Originally Posted by windycanyon

Actually, I'd argue about a lab being "fully trained" at 1 yo. Haven't seen one yet that was fully trained, even on a pro's truck. But you are correct, it's not unusual to see that price for a "started" dog.

As for pricing on a "retired" bitch/ dog, this is a 4yo. I consider 4 to be a fantastic age because what you see is what you get temperament, soundness, etc wise! For $2000 the new owner will have a dog that will likely be w/ them at least 8 more yrs. That's $250/ yr. Add in the spay, that's still nothing.

I hear of Rescues charging as much as $800, so why would a breeder NOT charge significantly more for the value added? Sure they could just give the dog to a friend too. I have done that as well, but my girl was already 7.5 yrs old (she lived another 5 yrs) and was very well trained. These folks may be operating as a business too, and just trying to cover their expenses. I don't see $2000 to be outrageous at all, especially when you look at the average cost of puppy shots/ vet visits that first year.

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I agree to u and labradocksI​ .I am just putting some thoughts I would have if I do not know the breeder .
Also I am surprised a show dog will never be trained . Is that common?.

The people I know who has x breeding dogs usually were cheaper and spayed by the breeder.



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Originally Posted by Bernie

My point was; why in-the-hell would the breeder expect the buyer to pay for this?
This whole idea is an example of- "they saw you coming."

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Because that's how it's done. But like I mentioned, most of the other breeders I know who rehome older dogs, don't bother with rehoming fees, just recoup the cost of altering the animal. And typically that's done because full registration can't be revoked, and if an intact dog is sold to an idiot, then they could be having more puppies. But having the dog altered before it leaves the home, that fixes that.

Just my opinion, but that seems kinda high for an older dog.

I would think the breeder would have the dog altered BEFORE placing it in another home. It would be in the breeders best interest I would think..I am not a breeder so maybe I'm wrong. But in my line of thinking seems they would want to make sure she wasn't bred after placing her, there for they should have it done before the fact.

I wouldn't buy this dog, but again this is just my opinion :)

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Originally Posted by Pogie

Just my opinion, but that seems kinda high for an older dog.

I would think the breeder would have the dog altered BEFORE placing it in another home. It would be in the breeders best interest I would think..I am not a breeder so maybe I'm wrong. But in my line of thinking seems they would want to make sure she wasn't bred after placing her, there for they should have it done before the fact.

I wouldn't buy this dog, but again this is just my opinion :)

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They do have the dog spayed before it goes to the new home. But they want to be reimbursed for the fee. And usually they don't alter the dog until it's placed.

Since day one getting a lab, they have all been older. By older I mean 7+ years. Our first was Potion, 9 years old. She had to have a C-section and had a rough time and breeder did not want her to go through that again. I had already built a relationship with this breeder and there was no cost. I did have to have her spayed which as a little more challenging because of scar tissue from the C-section.

Our second, Melody was 10 years old. She did not need to be spayed as she had been because of pyometia surgery. Her breeder and Potion's breeder knew each other so I think they exchanged info about me. It was $300 for her; as her breeder said, she does not give dogs away.

Bandit came from Potion's breeder at 7 years old. Beautiful lab who did not like the show ring and was not too successful at breeding. We did have to have him neutered and came to us at no cost. Again, I had built a great relationship with the breeder.

Mardi joined us at about 8 years old. She had to be spayed. She had some arthritis in her back legs already. Again, I believe breeders chat amount themselves as she came to us at no cost.

Don't know why but I'm not getting a great feeling about the breeder you are talking about. The eye thing worries me.

All our labs came with fantastic house manners, crate trained, walked great on a leash, etc. Even so, each one went to basic obedience class which helped with bonding. Guess we have been very lucky with the breeders we have a relationship with. That's where I'll be looking in the spring to get another.

Of course, this is different than getting a much younger dog as far as cost. Just my 2 cents worth.

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Originally Posted by JenC

They do have the dog spayed before it goes to the new home. But they want to be reimbursed for the fee. And usually they don't alter the dog until it's placed.

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Why?

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Originally Posted by JenC

They do have the dog spayed before it goes to the new home. But they want to be reimbursed for the fee. And usually they don't alter the dog until it's placed.

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The OP didn't say it was already done, the way I was reading it sounded like they wanted the money for the dog and an extra 500 to get it altered. Maybe I read it wrong lol.

And why not get it altered before placing it? If they don't want to breed that is.

Like i said I am no breeder lol. And I may be reading it wrong :)

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Originally Posted by Pogie

The OP didn't say it was already done, the way I was reading it sounded like they wanted the money for the dog and an extra 500 to get it altered. Maybe I read it wrong lol.
No, you read it right.

And why not get it altered before placing it? If they don't want to breed that is.
Just my thought; if someone doesn't come around with $2500. you can breed her again. $$

Like i said I am no breeder lol. And I may be reading it wrong :)

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Personally I would have no problem with agreeing to and paying the spay fee, but not trusting me to get it done at my vet would be a red flag.

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Originally Posted by Bernie

Personally I would have no problem with agreeing to and paying the spay fee, but not trusting me to get it done at my vet would be a red flag.

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a LOT of people will say they will get to it and NOT get to it (either they are lying or just "stuff happens" and they meant to but never got around to it). I think the breeder absolutely SHOULD do it on their own prior to re-homing the (adult) dog.

I assume they mean the breeder will have the spay done but is separating the cost of the dog from the cost of the spay (so buyer pays both)

We are in north Jersey. We adopted a 4 year old pure bred chocolate lab a few years ago. The shelter included her spay in the adoption fee of $375. Go on petfinder or adopt-a-pet and find yourself a great, older dog and save a couple of lives. Please adopt, don't shop.

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Originally Posted by stewbert

We are in north Jersey. We adopted a 4 year old pure bred chocolate lab a few years ago. The shelter included her spay in the adoption fee of $375. Go on petfinder or adopt-a-pet and find yourself a great, older dog and save a couple of lives. Please adopt, don't shop.

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That "adopt don't shop" rhetoric comes directly from radical animal rights activists (PETA, HSUS etc...) whose only goal is to eradicate companion animal (and food and fiber animal etc... etc...) ownership entirely. They are doing their best to making breeding difficult, expensive and next to impossible to do, so then after all the animals in the shelter are adopted, then what? Where will your kids or grandkids get dogs from? What if they want a purebred dog?

Did you know that shelters and rescue are big business now? They import dogs from out of the country to satisfy the demand for dogs for people to adopt. This has brought dog diseases from other countries that wasn't here, and has put many dogs at risk, as well as many dogs that aren't mentally stable enough for adoption, but people try to 'save' them anyways.

We still have a choice of where to aquire a pet dog, some people like the predictability of a purebred dog, that looks like what they are expecting, has the temperament they are expecting, the coat and size they are expecting, etc... That they can purchase from a breeder. Other can choose to adopt an animal that needs a home from a shelter or rescue or pound, and know that with that choice, they aren't complete sure what they are getting, but feel good about their choice. Either way is fine as long as the dogs are loved, and taken care of, and cherished as loving animal companions. I myself have had several adopted cats, and 2 dogs. I also have purebred Labradors, and I adore the breed.

Repect for the hard work that breeders do to retain a breed, raise puppies well and take great care of them has deceased over the past 10 years or so. The animal right activists and all those sad tevelvision commercials are working, be careful what you ask for, because you may not have a choice in the future. It used to be cool to own a purebred dog that you bought from a breeder, got on their list and brought home an 8-12 week old puppy to raise. In some circles it still is, thankfully, but to be shamed for making the decision to buy from a breeder is terrible. You have a choice, but don't shame others for theirs.

Well, she is sweet. We are crossing our fingers and getting her. i am not opposed to paying for a quality family dog with a great temperament and good health. I am not opposed to paying for the spaying and having the dog taken care of by the breeder during the recovery. And, I know that clearances cost the breeder some. I also know that the breeder lost many puppies during her second breeding when there was an issue with the C-section. Based on our first meeting, she is a very sweet and gentle dog and my 8 year old daughter fell in love with her. I do think that we are paying a little too much for her. We should certainly get the same "warranty" that one would get with a new puppy. The only training I think she has had, though is house-training and walking on a leash. Her socialization and the fact that up till now she does not have any anxiety when left alone are also important. i am excited about bringing her home. I was looking for another dog, but my wife jumped on her. I would have attempted to find one that was no more than $1700 (with spaying included), but that didn't happen. Had an opportunity to get a spayed 8 year old for $500 but my wife wanted a younger one. 3-4 seems about the right age that we were looking for. This forum seems to be very nice, and i thank you all for your input.

The more research I do I am totally against any organization that puts alot of pics of dogs in shelter down south
Then u pay the dog transport company 150 for a drop off directly and 500 - 800 bucks for a organization that picks the dog from this shelter and puts in a transport crate .

Hate saying this but while chatting at the local dog park people tell me they feel guilty buying from the breeder and not adopting. I am shocked.i even see back yard breeders referring to please adopt this puppy in ads.


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