New Lab puppy problems

Hello,
I am new and I hate that my first post is a cry for help. But we have a 3 1/2 month old yellow Lab who has us at our wits end. We have had many dogs, including Labs and Lab mixes, but this girl has the worse behavior we have ever encountered. We are even thinking that is we don't see improvement soon we may just give up the fight. I work with her everyday, walking her, leash training her, using commands, etc but it seems nothing will help.

She has always been a "mouthy" puppy and I can't tell you how many wounds we both have from flying teeth. She seems to be obsessed with her mouth and teeth and we can only enjoy her when she is sleepy or very tired. At this point she constantly jumps up and down and doesn't respond to "Down!" Her mouth is always open and sometimes bites down on us while jumping. Be assured it is play, not aggression, but it still breaks the skin.

Have you any advice for us? She is beautiful and it would break my heart to have to give her up. BTW we have a large property and she mostly has freedom to run and play so she has no problem with being cooped up.

Thanks,
pslane

My boy Asher is 17 weeks today. He is all mouth and attitude. A few weeks back, while jumping up and his mouth wide open, his tooth caught in my pinky finger and ripped (very deep) in my finger tip and I had to go to urgent care to get the fatty tissue tucked back into my finger and to get stitches. Dealt with antibiotics for a week. He's had a UTI (lots of peeing in his crate until I took a urine sample in) and then diarrhea from the antibiotics. Add in I have a 4 yr old lab that just barks and barks at Asher and will simply not allow Asher to touch him most times. I have two 9 month old kitties and Asher just can't figure out he's not supposed to Chase and chomp after them. Asher loves to go for the wooden legs of the end table, the corner of the TV stand, the wooden gate, etc. Your issues sound similar to mine so I guess I'm saying I don't think your girl is out of the ordinary. Maybe just a little more free spirited than dogs you had in the past. I do know, I do not remember Samson being like Asher is. Asher knows sit, leave it, and no. I'm working on drop it because outside if he sees it, it's going in his mouth. Work work work and more work. We had our 2nd puppy class on Saturday. One thing I've learned from Samson is I have to stay in control and be patient. They are so good at reading body language and tension. I hope you work it out with your little girl and do not give up on her. It's not easy and gets very frustrating at times but they are worth it. Just maybe she has too much freedom and it's interfering with how closed in she may be when you try to do the training. I'm not a pro at this by any means. I come to this board for advice just as you have. I'm sure some very experienced folks will give you some great advice! Good luck!

What you are experiencing is pretty normal for a Lab puppy. I've got a 10 1/2 month old who was very mouthy as a young pup, will still grab your hand or arm now and then when playing. Two things I've found that have worked well for me. When they try to bite you, put your hand over their muzzle and roll the upped lip over a canine tooth and squeeze it and tell them "no bite". You don't have to press hard, only hard enough to impress upon them that biting hurts. The other thing is when the puppy lunges at you trying to bite, turn away and give a high pitched yelp.

Labs do tend to be jumpers, it's something you have to actually train them to not do. Being so young, your puppy is full of energy and needs to learn self control, which is something that tends to be very hard to do with Labs. What training have you done so far? Teaching sit means sit and don't move until I tell you will help with this. You will probably have to correct the puppy thousands or times before they really understand, but it's better to start now than to be wrestling with a 75 pound dog.

At the age of your puppy they are like little sponges. You said you have a large property. Do you let the pup roam around on his own? if yes, I'd put a stop to that now. The puppy needs to learn YOU are in control of them and their environment. You decide when they go out, you decide when they play, you decide when the eat. And make them earn these privledges. There is a concept of Nothing in Life is Free (NILF). Buy letting the puppy roam on it's own it's learning independence and he's in control. If it's possible I'd also sign up for a class as soon as possible. A good trainer can be a lot of help with these issues.

I have an almost 3 year old and an 8 1/2 month old. They are so similar yet so different.

Mav, the almost 3 year old, is very intuitive, smart, and really wants to please.

Bear is smart, but in a more sly way. He wants to skip all the in between steps and just get to the end.

My point is that every dog is different. Even in the Labrador breed.

My suggestion is to keep working with commands. Let her drag a leash everywhere because maybe she has so much freedom she can't control herself. Both indoors and outdoors. And when she gets jumpy and nippy place her in her crate for a time out. Oftentimes when hey get like this they are overtired. Also, when they start teething the nippiness usually gets better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Know what you mean, our first one was born already trained. She didn't bite, bark or jump. She didn't steal the cat's food that was easily available to her. She walked on leash without training. She slept through the night from the get go, for heaven's sake. EVen though we knew she was an unusually special gem (and she was named for a gemstone :) ) still, it was a shock to get a more usual Lab puppy the next time around, who bit and stole stole things. I have no good puppy picture of him because he wasn't still for a second when he was awake.

WE found ways to play that avoided teeth on us. If teeth were coming at us we got so we could predict it and get a toy in there before hand. We went to training classes where puppy's little black mind (not black as in evil, though that was tempting to think, but because he's black) was exercised and helped tire him out. And more training classes and more training classes. We didn't use a crate in the usual sense but we had one and put it in our gated kitchen. When a time out was needed he was popped into the kitchen, also when we needed to get something done or go out. Remarkably he did not wreck the kitchen, some do. We arrnged puppy play dates too, and that helped bring the energy level down a bit.

YOu can do it. It might be a bit more work than you expected but you can. She's absolutely normal, sorry to tell you. :)

What's her name and how about a photo?

This is our "Holy Terror" as his Grandma dubbed him. He's 9 years old. Yep, he made it to 9 and so did we. :)

Thanks for some good advice and moral support. I am working with commands, making very slow progress. By slow, I mean, if I say sit, chances are she will lay all the way down instead of just her behind. :) She learned "Stay" first of all. Does she always obey it, no. The large property isn't a problem because she loves to just stay on the back porch until one of us takes her for a long walk. Except for that, she only goes outside to play with toys right outside the door (which we keep propped open) and sometimes she will venture to the woods to do her business. She has some spots in the edge of the woods that are her bathroom. Occasionally I take her on the leash but no luck there because she holds the leash in her mouth the whole time. Still she is aware that she is on a leash and can go only where I take her. We had a wonderful walk this morning, no biting the jeans, no jumping. :victorious: So next time we start out a walk with her bad behavior, I am going to cancel the walk.

SamsonsMom: Sorry about your finger. I am lucky I haven't had a bite that bad. Hubby and I both have bites and scars on our arms and hands. The teeth come flying at you before you know it so I can relate! I also have 2 cats and a few days a week I let them out and Lucy is so delighted to have someone to chase and harass! My tom cat stands up to her and she can't get too close without a slap and a hiss. Worse problem is my elderly chihuahua who isn't in good health enough to have to fight her off.
Anyway, she is trained to go into her crate at night in the house so at least we have go that conquered.

Attachment 6046

Quote:

---

What you are experiencing is pretty normal for a Lab puppy

---

Thank you barry581, that makes me feel better!

BTW We let her stay inside almost all the time when we got her at 6 weeks, until she got bigger and chewed a hold in the sheet rock!

Snowshoe, thanks for the input and the support. We have also had lab pups that were easy to train. We lost our black lab mix on Christmas day in an accident. (Best dog we ever had) I was physically and emotionally sick for almost 2 months. So I know what you mean by the difference in our dogs. Lucy is under the category "Holy Terror", too, at this point but we are working hard and hope to be rewarded someday.

Sorry you have such a little shark! Getting her at 6 weeks of age may have contributed to the biting issue- less time with Mom and siblings to get their correction for biting. Nonetheless, our first lab was quite a biter and we got him at 9 weeks of age. I agree that with him, it improved once his big teeth were in. I didn't say went away, but it did improve and he stopped all mouthy-ness. Our younger one still likes to take things in her mouth, she doesn't bite down though. She generally has a toy in her mouth whenever she's excited. She was one to take the leash in her mouth as well. I didn't cancel the walk, just stopped and told her to drop it and we didn't move forward until she had. No tug of war, no shaking, just drop it. Even at 4 years of age, if something really excites her on a walk, she wants something in her mouth and the leash is usually what she grabs.

Lucy is a cutie!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smartrock

Sorry you have such a little shark! Getting her at 6 weeks of age may have contributed to the biting issue- less time with Mom and siblings to get their correction for biting. Nonetheless, our first lab was quite a biter and we got him at 9 weeks of age. I agree that with him, it improved once his big teeth were in. I didn't say went away, but it did improve and he stopped all mouthy-ness. Our younger one still likes to take things in her mouth, she doesn't bite down though. She generally has a toy in her mouth whenever she's excited. She was one to take the leash in her mouth as well. I didn't cancel the walk, just stopped and told her to drop it and we didn't move forward until she had. No tug of war, no shaking, just drop it. Even at 4 years of age, if something really excites her on a walk, she wants something in her mouth and the leash is usually what she grabs.

Lucy is a cutie!

---

I deliberately got a Lab that was guaranteed to be HOT-as-a-$2-pistol (as my dad used to say). From FIELD champions both sire and dam. Line bred on two of the craziest, high-drive field dogs to ever pick up a bird. (Yes, I was out of my mind.)

It can be done. I train several times a week with a professional. Even the pro had a devil of a time with this dog. I highlighted SmartRock's solution, because believe it or not... better than prong-collars, electric collars, heeling sticks, riding crops (listen, y'all... don't flame me here... we can discuss methods elsewhere) But all of that had only marginal effect whereas that simple thing that SmartRock mentioned was the key. Everything stops when pup is being a butt. I not only stop... I start moving backwards.

About the biting... I totally endorse Barry's method. Plus consider, that dog is pushing some mighty big teeth through her gums and will be until about 5 and half months of age.

Freedom to roam: I think it's a bad idea. You have a hunting dog who will one day put her nose to the ground and start tracking something interesting and you'll turn around and she'll be gone. She doesn't need freedom. (Big misconception.) Dogs are territorial. When you give them a big property, you're giving them a huge job to do. It's in their DNA to see that big property as a responsibility, not freedom. Your pup is only 14 weeks old. Simplify her world and make YOU the center of it. She needs WAAAaaaay less room, unless you are adventuring out with her. (On lead.)

Back to SmartRock. I'd work on static commands right now. SIT... STAY...PLACE. Don't work on COME right now. You want to reward her for being still. Around the house, let her drag a line. You can call her, but only when you have the end of the leash and can enforce the command (and then make big, happy sounds about how she "came" to you.)

General rule of dog-training. Never give a command you're not in a position to enforce. All you're doing is teaching her that you make irrelevant noises from time to time, you're actually training her to ignore you.

When she sits wrong (lies down) just put her in a sit position and tell her what a good SIT she does. Make her stay in a SIT for an increasing number of seconds. Don't call her to you from the SIT. Go to her and tell her how wonderful she is. Don't teach her to break her sit at this point.

It's not easy having a Lab puppy. They do not come straight from the box as finished products. But the pay-off down the road is totally worth it.

I feel your pain. Mocha as a puppy was a mouthy puppy. We looked we had been sorting cats some days. DW sat and cried one day and said "I don't think I'll ever to play with our puppy" But time and CONSTANT DAILY training we now have the sweetest most lovable 3 year old ever. He is a dream.

Now fast forward to July of this year and after the memories of Mocha's puppyhood we got a little yellow terror! She had Mocha to chew and bite on so we were saved from that. But she found other ways to be a puppy. She gave us no signs when she was ready to pee. It took a long time to house train her. She is a shredder. Anything she gets her teeth on was torn to bits. At 8 months old she is coming around and we see signs of the sweet puppy she is going to be.

Be patient, be consistent and sign you and your pup up for training classes.
Latte Mocha
Attachment 6052

Thanks for more advice. On our walks, I always have a ball with me to throw if she goes for my legs or jumps. Also plenty of sticks around to keep throwing. But if I don't have anything with me, stopping won't help with Lucy. She would wait all day for me to start walking again and keep up the bad behavior. I just end the walk as soon as I can get home.

I tell you, I have read about everything there is to read on the web about this and most of the stuff I am trying to do the way they say to do it. But some things simply don't work with Lucy. I'm sure time is what I need. Lucy's owners were rarin' to get rid of their pups because they had 2 large litters in a small home so when she called, we went right over and picked up the little fur ball.

Anybody noticed that your pup is worse at different times of day? Late evenings are always bad, I guess because she is tired and is pushing herself to keep going. Reminds me of Sundowner's Syndrome in nursing home patients.

I think you've nailed sundowning there. If Lucy sleeps well in her crate, you might consider putting her in for an enforced nap a few times a day if she doesn't seem to nap on her own. Whether they seemed tired or not I put my pups in for a nap mid-morning and mid-to-late afternoon. Just like a cranky child, they often seemed more pleasant to be around if they weren't overtired.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coldwetnoz

SamsonsMom: Sorry about your finger. I am lucky I haven't had a bite that bad. Hubby and I both have bites and scars on our arms and hands. The teeth come flying at you before you know it so I can relate! I also have 2 cats and a few days a week I let them out and Lucy is so delighted to have someone to chase and harass! My tom cat stands up to her and she can't get too close without a slap and a hiss. Worse problem is my elderly chihuahua who isn't in good health enough to have to fight her off.
Anyway, she is trained to go into her crate at night in the house so at least we have go that conquered.

Attachment 6046

---

The finger was a complete shock! Perfect timing of me feeling the bite, quickly pulling my hand back, and him chomping down. It hurt like hell but we made it through. He is much much better on the bites now. He's doing very well with "easy". A few times, he chomped down very good on my hand and I was able to get a finger toward the back of his mouth and he'd release. Lucy is adorable!!! Keep working at it because the payoff is going to be a loving, sweet, best friend that wants nothing more but to please you!

Asher active all the time (your other post). In the morning after breakfast he gets a 30 minute time out to rest the belly (I honestly don't see how 2.5 cups of kibble fits in that belly). Once out, he's ready to go. I work so he's crated during the day. I have a pet sitter that comes over mid-point for about 45 minutes. When I get home, my evening is nothing but Asher and Samson playing like crazy. No more coming home after a stressful day at work and relaxing! :-) On the weekends, he's on the go all day. I put him in the crate for mid morning naps and late afternoon. Samson does a great job wearing him out. I take them for rides in the car (preparing for our trip to Outer Banks in a few weeks). He seems to do well. Puppy class on Saturday wears him out which is wonderful. I have a nice few hours Saturday evening when he's passed out. All in all, he's a little terror! lol If I try to correct Asher, Samson goes nuts. Has to be there barking and standing right by Asher as if to say "I've got this mom!" I'll need to separate them more so I can work more on the commands with Asher. My challenge on the leash is that neighbors all want to pet him. I took him to the pet store and of course everyone wants to come up and see him. Makes it impossible for me to train him. I wonder if they make puppy vests that say "training - do not approach?" ha.

Keep us updated!

My 11 month old still can get mouthy. hang in there.

1) We have small kids in the house so i would use vicks on the ankle. taught her to not chase my 5 yr old ankles.
2) When she get mouthy i will put a drop of lavander oil in the mouth.
3) Lavender oil on my hand. My friend thought 6 3 / 240 lbs man smelling like lavender was funny but hey it saved my hands . Not she knows the bottle and me and wife has a few left overs, when she trys to get mouthy all we do is show the bottle and she whines and barks and leaves us alone. At 75 lbs she is too big for physical intervention. Like get the zoombies some times and trying to jump on the wife or kids watching tv
4) Chew toys - small towels frozen with chicken stock.
5) Frozen baby carrots - she still loves these.
6) At 6-7 months i started bully sticks and knees to chew on.
7) As most day cares have a fixed above 6 month policy, we actually sent gigi to day care from 3 months so she can be taught by older dogs some manners. i think she did learn a bit.
8) She started training and puppy social at 12 weeks. again puppy`s teach other alot of correction.

good luck its gets better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamsonsMom

The finger was a complete shock! Perfect timing of me feeling the bite, quickly pulling my hand back, and him chomping down. It hurt like hell but we made it through. He is much much better on the bites now. He's doing very well with "easy". A few times, he chomped down very good on my hand and I was able to get a finger toward the back of his mouth and he'd release. Lucy is adorable!!! Keep working at it because the payoff is going to be a loving, sweet, best friend that wants nothing more but to please you!

Asher active all the time (your other post). In the morning after breakfast he gets a 30 minute time out to rest the belly (I honestly don't see how 2.5 cups of kibble fits in that belly). Once out, he's ready to go. I work so he's crated during the day. I have a pet sitter that comes over mid-point for about 45 minutes. When I get home, my evening is nothing but Asher and Samson playing like crazy. No more coming home after a stressful day at work and relaxing! :-) On the weekends, he's on the go all day. I put him in the crate for mid morning naps and late afternoon. Samson does a great job wearing him out. I take them for rides in the car (preparing for our trip to Outer Banks in a few weeks). He seems to do well. Puppy class on Saturday wears him out which is wonderful. I have a nice few hours Saturday evening when he's passed out. All in all, he's a little terror! lol If I try to correct Asher, Samson goes nuts. Has to be there barking and standing right by Asher as if to say "I've got this mom!" I'll need to separate them more so I can work more on the commands with Asher. My challenge on the leash is that neighbors all want to pet him. I took him to the pet store and of course everyone wants to come up and see him. Makes it impossible for me to train him. I wonder if they make puppy vests that say "training - do not approach?" ha.

Keep us updated!

---

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_US218_.jpg Yep they make one and it seems to work. It's the only way I can walk mine in public. People seem to have become conscious of the importance of dogs in training. They leave her alone. And PETSMART is the worst. The cashiers always have cookies and Rocket Dog knows this. I got so upset when I told one of them NO... She's being a butt! Don't give it to her unless she's sitting quietly. But the woman dangled it over my dog's head. Ach! It was a disaster. But Home Depot... no problem. Her leash obedience is fine.

Coldwetnose... are you saying that you can't walk your pup without her going for your legs, and because she's biting at your legs you terminate the walk?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TuMicks

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_US218_.jpg Yep they make one and it seems to work. It's the only way I can walk mine in public. People seem to have become conscious of the importance of dogs in training. They leave her alone. And PETSMART is the worst. The cashiers always have cookies and Rocket Dog knows this. I got so upset when I told one of them NO... She's being a butt! Don't give it to her unless she's sitting quietly. But the woman dangled it over my dog's head. Ach! It was a disaster. But Home Depot... no problem. Her leash obedience is fine.

---

Fantastic!! I'm getting that. Thanks Yes, Saturday took him for his first pet store visit and to get microchipped. I finally had to pick him up because people kept petting him and enticing him. So I'm standing in line holding him and he's calm. Lady in front of me turns and starts cooing and awing and of course he tries to jump out of my arms. I get the "I'm so sorry, I should not have done that." I just smiled and fought back the angry words.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coldwetnoz

Anybody noticed that your pup is worse at different times of day? Late evenings are always bad, I guess because she is tired and is pushing herself to keep going. Reminds me of Sundowner's Syndrome in nursing home patients.

---

Referred to as the .Zoombies.

Any input from the breeder? they usually know their dogs and what works. You may need to start working a schedule. if they can play and exercise at a specific time each day, you might find that the dog is calm and mellow and tired when you need them to be, like during YOUR dinner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JenC

Any input from the breeder? they usually know their dogs and what works. You may need to start working a schedule. if they can play and exercise at a specific time each day, you might find that the dog is calm and mellow and tired when you need them to be, like during YOUR dinner.

---

Since the breeder let the pups go at 6 weeks, I doubt they would be a good source of advice.

hang in there - i have a furry landshark as well, lets see, he's 18 weeks or is it 19 weeks old? and i have a 10yr old who wants NOTHING to do with him, so i don't have that wonderful outlet of another dog to play with. However, Trigger does watch Scout to see what he does, when he does it, and how i react to it, so there is definitely learning taking place that isnt actually initiated by me.

Biting, oh yes. Lip curl like Barry suggested, having something appropriate like a nylabone (teething cloth -supervised only!) always handy to stuff in that little shark mouth instead of hands, legs, jeans, slippers etc. Look in your baby's mouth- i feel so bad for Trigger after seeing what i saw last night - ouch , so sore looking with big teeth coming in all over his little mouth!

Wild time of the day - yes, oh yes - later evening about 9pm (or 10pm if we've got late dog school class), they're just like cranky toddlers. i will sit on the couch at that point and throw something for him over and over and over again, and eventually he gets tired enough to lay down. If it weren't for the fact i can finally cuddle him then beside me on the couch, i would crate him for my sanity!

Training, otherwise known as mind exercise - it really does make a big difference to work their brains as well as physical exercise. they have the attention span of a gnat, so short (very short, ending on a good note) sessions working on 1 thing seems to work best. I try and do something in the yard before heading in to work, then if i can spare a few minutes part way thru the morning (if they're at work with me) a quick outside trip and a "fun" (training) session. Then again at home for lunch break. they're usually left at home (Trigger crated) for the afternoon. When i get home, out into the yard for some hard running. then settle before dinner, then dinner with some short training before kibble is served. Post dinner digestive rest in the crate, then outside, then likely off to classes.

Classes. Seriously. even if you have a super-busy schedule and can't seem to fit in training on your own, going to class MAKES you work for that hour with the pup. you'd be amazed what they can get out of even that once-weekly session. Trigger the baby is in a class Monday night and Tuesday night. My 10yr old is in class (still! yes, he still LOVES going to classes at 10) Wed night and Thurs night that pup comes along to -more experiences for him. And they both get Field training on either sat or sun.

Other than the land-shark bit, Trigger is actually a fairly easy puppy. Yes, he's busy. but housetraining went well, he know asks to go out (i've just cursed myself....). He is great in his crate and the expen at work. I've lost one pair of reading glasses, the remote has a few good scratches on it, i have some scars on my hands, but nothing i wasnt expecting. Seeing him delight in new things, be so PLEASED with himself when he knows he got a command correct, and be so darn HAPPY and excited about things is priceless!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annette47

Since the breeder let the pups go at 6 weeks, I doubt they would be a good source of advice.

---

The breeders just wanted to get rid of their puppies and get their money. With 2 6 week litters all crawling with fleas, I understand how they felt. But of course none of us would allow conditions like that. I'm just glad Lucy was healthy and lucky we got her home and de-flea-ed her and gave her her own home.

All these posts are interesting and very helpful but of course, not everybody agrees on everything. What works for one, doesn't always work for all. We are definitely handing her things to put in her mouth (toys, sticks, etc) whenever we are the target of her teeth. Works real good.

Quote:

---

are you saying that you can't walk your pup without her going for your legs, and because she's biting at your legs you terminate the walk?

---

I'm saying this: Normally, we have a good walk with me throwing an occasional stick or ball to distract her from my legs. On a good day, this works and she enjoys her walk and so do I. But if she is in a hyper mood and won't leave my jeans legs alone, I know it is fruitless to continue the walk and head for home without speaking to her anymore. These problems are getting fewer and fewer, thank goodness.

Update: Yesterday as I was heading for the house, I decided to take Lucy's ball and give it one more throw. She loves to fetch. As I went to throw it, Lucy jumped up in anticipation and her very large tooth caught my right arm and gashed it. I had to go and get 4 stitches in my arm. Not Lucy's fault so there was no reprimand. I have quite a collection of small gashes and scars from former gashes but this one was a doozie! Maybe we could have a "scar contest"! lol :smile-new:

My youngest is 3 and a half and I may have psychologically obscured her puppyhood in my my mind. I guess my hubby and I got snagged and bitten-ish. We've never had to get stitches, I'm pretty sure of that.

The impulse of most people on the board, I think, is to use distraction and give a toy or something else to divert her from biting you. And that is good and obviously works when it works. But, I don't think that is what we've always done. I believe over the years and through a whole gaggle of labs, I'll admit right here that we have been pretty harsh with jumping up and biting.

Maybe people will strongly disagree... but at some point (usually when the pup has actually gotten teeth on me producing a scratch or little tear) I'll just try to get my hands on her and make it punitive.

The snout squeeze that Barry mentioned is very good. Along with a loud, right near her face, looking in her eyes, NO!!!

When pups or dogs jump up on me, they get a knee in the chest and NO!!!

If I'm sitting in the den and getting harassed, (and other methods of distraction aren't working) I play momma-dog and grab by the scruff and (this is probably significant) get her front legs off the floor. Dogs do NOT like to have their contact with the ground messed with. When I lift a pup's front feet off the ground by the scruff, I get in it's face again and yell NO! while shaking her a little. Then abruptly drop it.

If I'm walking a dog and they're harassing me, I step on the leash as close to its neck as possible and try to pin their ear to the ground, and yell NO! (Obviously this will not work with a harness. You'll need to put a collar on her.)

I think the take home is that if the pup's mother had had more time with the pup, she would not have put up with it being a total butt. Other dogs don't let their litter-mates puncture their skin. They just do what they need to do to keep their sibling in line.

And I would bet my last dollar that when pup is in a feisty mood, and jumps or mouths you... and you use these methods, they're going to repeat the "attack" (and it isn't really an attack, it's rough play) but they'll repeat it. I stop it abruptly again. And again. And again. Until the message is received in it's little brain.

Does that make sense? Maybe some board members will disagree with me. But I think you might need a range of responses for your pup's behavior.

Sorry about the gash. as i agree with the lady above. you need to find what works. i think the challenge is the pup did not learn any bite inhibition from its siblings by 6 weeks. again even though was a bit scrapped up me and my wife never let the kids or even us get injured to that level as you. Once we found a trainer who directed us to using of lavender oil, the nicks and scrapping went down alot. I still had some minor stuff but nothing requiring stitches.

when they stop jumping knees work and also a step into them and crowd them which also unbalances them. i also will pop the lavender oil right near her nose for a quick smell. sometimes i did have to grab her mouth and put a drop. the outcome is she lets us even at adults handle stuff to be taken from her mouth as its something she used to as a puppy. small toys, destroyed toys , bones , dead decayed animals.

settle is the first command we worked on, pull the leash on the floor and put your feet on it as close to her as possible. she has to lay down. this is the absolute as you need her to settle down when you need watch tv , eat dinner and even in your case address your wounds. you are stronger so you can hold the leash down and force a settle command. give her treats when she does.

I'm gonna chime in as well. I have zero tolerance for biting. I don't care whose fault it was or if it's play. I just don't tolerate it. If the puppy is 8 weeks then fine. I try the gentle methods that have been mentioned above. But my last lab was close to 1 yr old and still mouthing. Yes, he was playing. But when those big teeth hit your hands it hurts! We eventually wrestled it out and I put my hand around his mouth and said NO BITING! And I held it there until he calmed down which took a couple of minutes. No squeezing. No lip under teeth. He just didn't like the lack of control he had. That was the last of it. If he didn't again I repeated it without the wrestle. Later on in his life, if he got mouthy again (which was rare and very playful but I didn't like it) I just said "no biting" very calmly at this point and he immediately stopped. I think the gentle method is good to start with. But if your dog is more persistent like mine was then I move along to "I'm the boss" method.

The jumping was resolved with immediately telling him to sit. You have to anticipate this. He would get excited around new people and I would tell them to walk into him and tell him to sit. He only got pet when he sat. He got fed when he sat. He got a toy when he sat. Everything had to be earned. Personally, I don't want to hit a dog in the chest. I know that may work for some.

Also, I found an hour at the dog park helped A LOT! Jules would be significantly more calm for a day or two after an outing at the dog park. Let other dogs set yours into her place.

I don't mean this to sound rude, and I'm only saying this because you truly seem like an intelligent and reasonable person. If I thought otherwise, I'd post some links to good rescues in your area to surrender her to. I also realize that you probably posted your original posting in a moment of frustration. Puppies can be tough! :) If you bought a puppy from a questionable, unethical breeder when it was likely legally too young to leave the litter, you made the decision to deal with the health issues and behavior issues that stem from these types of irresponsible breedings. These puppies were created for $$$, not because the parents are healthy or because they have sound temperaments or because the two of them would create puppies that take the best from each parent and possibly even out anything undesirable. Labs are great dogs and even the worst ones are usually not that bad (relatively speaking). It's very, very likely that your puppy will turn into a lovely adult dog over time. But, you went into this knowing that you were not getting the best puppy -- temperamentally, physically or health-wise -- that you could get. In a sense, you rescued the puppy and with every rescued dog comes work undoing what has been done and dealing with the outcome of a an irresponsible breeder. So, you have a challenge on your hands.

(Note: I do not agree with purchasing a puppy to rescue it because as long as the breeder is able to get rid of the puppies and make money, they will continue to breed. If people stop purchasing these puppies and instead make the breeder surrender them to shelters and rescues where experienced professionals can examine their health and temperament, adopt them to appropriate families and be a resource for issues -- and yes, they WILL get adopted -- then these breeders will simply stop breeding.)

One of my favorite blogs is, It's a Puppy Not a Problem, which I think just puts everything into perspective in a situation like yours. I personally LOVE puppies, even naughty ones. If I had my way, I'd get a new puppy about every 3 - 4 years. I feel like this is a blog a person could go back and read whenever they are feeling overwhelmed or frustrated. It's a baby and babies are not born knowing how to deal with humans. Just like children, it's a process, and it doesn't happen overnight.

I also like the Ian Dunbar free ebook series Before You Get Your Puppy and After You Get Your Puppy. Dr. Dunbar does a real service to puppy people by offering these great books for free as PDFs. You can purchase them as books as well. I like the PDFs because of the "find" function.

My puppy methods are different, but like the methods described above, you have to do it right the first time, no nagging and you must be consistent. I'd also add, you must be fair. If your puppy is having a tantrum there is no purpose in fighting him, just put him down for a nap in his crate and throw some sort of food chew toy deal in there with him to give him something to do while he's falling asleep. I've never seen a kid at the store stop screaming when he got spanked for having a meltdown. Don't take the kid to the store when he should be sleeping and don't try to play with or train the puppy when she should be napping and don't expect the puppy to be sweet when they are teething, either.

The issue I have with muzzle grabbing and tooth-lipping is that it's often done incorrectly and for a lot of puppies, it makes them come at you harder because it winds them up. It can also cause defensive biting. I also don't want my dogs to distrust me or fear me when I need to handle their muzzles or their mouths. Will any of these things happen for every dog? No. But being on a message board, not seeing the puppy's general temperament, I don't think it's wise advice for everyone.

For biting I simply ignore the puppy, shove a toy in his mouth and then go back to giving him attention. I also don't sit on the floor with him nor do I ever play with my hands. Teaching a puppy tricks with a clicker and food is also something to do when puppy is bored and chewing on you. Sit, drop, sit up, spin, bounce (when he's older), bow, back up, paw, wave hi, platform, etc. As far as going on a leash, can you use food to lure the puppy so she is not biting? Not sure of your situation, but I personally spend the first six months leash training in the house and yard so that my puppies are trained to loose leash walk before we go on walks in the real world. If I need to get to the car or to a building I carry or lure until puppy is ready to walk nicely. Maybe she is just not ready for walks yet? Could she be stressing up? Sometimes when dogs are stressed they get kinda crazy and don't have a lot of emotional control -- hysterical sort-of. Hard to say without seeing it.

Kneeing a dog for jumping is also not something I do unless it's some strange big dog and I'm trying to keep protect myself and my space. For jumping I give them an "instead of" behavior. I prefer to tell the dog what I want, not punish him for what I don't want. If the dog is trained to sit or lay down to visit, he can't jump. So, I use food and condition a sit instead. Just reward heavily for what you want and ignore what you don't want, but also try to set the puppy up for success. Depending on the dog or puppy, I might step on the leash and reward for four on the floor.

Finally, you should get your puppy in a class. Puppy K is a good place to start. The Star Puppy classes are pretty good. From there, you have your basic obedience classes. If you want to go further, you can do tricks classes (which you can get titles for now), the CGC, agility (even just the foundations; dogs usually love it) and more.

Ah... YES! Classes. Can't recommend it enough. You're going to find people/pups who either have the same difficulties you have (and that will relieve you that these issues are encountered commonly) and/or you'll find people who are doing great with their pups and you can learn from them. It's a win-win.

I don't recommend my harsher methods as a first recourse. By all means go to class and find some system or solutions that are best tailored to your dog. I don't disagree with anything that's been posted here. But when push gets to shove... you have a range of things you can do.

Most of all... before I gave up on my dog and rehomed it... I'd do anything reasonable and humane and get help from classes, dog trainers and classes, AND behaviorists. (That 3 and a half year old dog???? Yes, ended up taking her to a behaviorist to get help with her dog aggression.)

Also, some of the biggest Lab fanciers on this site will probably tell you that their first Lab was bred catch-as-catch can. Mine was totally back yard bred. She ended up being Qualified All-Age. I still have the silver trophy she won at the Atlanta Retriever Club in the early 80's.

Stay strong. Stick with her. It will pay off.

I'll chime in with recommending negative punishment. My parents have a 9 1/2 month old demand barker. Annoys me more than just about anything. The trick is to take away what they are after. A walk, you, a toy, ice cubes, play time.....either remove them for 10-15 seconds or remove he object until they are giving you a desirable behavior. When our pups got bitey we put them in a forced time out. It took us away from them but it also gave us a chance to cool down before we could escalate.

Good luck with Lucy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On a another note. We started training before her rabies shots at ,16 weeks. Once we got parvo and other shots .She went to training.

Getting rabies at puppy social where other dogs are upto date with shots is a risk in took.

We took her camping too,where she met alot of dogs.again the campgrounds check up to date on shots at entry so we were fine letting her play on dog parks and interact with other dogs.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I wonder if you can take a video of your walks. It's easier to suggest solutions when we can see the behavior.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our walks are getting much better now because Lucy is getting more and more interested in the world around her. We usually do free walks because that's the way we have raised many good dogs out here on our land.
Lucy took her first walk to our pond today and she was sorta scared of it; went to the edge, ran back, doing a few wide circles that we call "running fits" or "happy fits"!

But I do train her on the leash sometimes and she still holds the leash in her mouth most of the time. But you know what? I stopped getting mad about it and just let her keep it because we will only need to use the leash for vet visits, anyway.

The knee works pretty good for jumping and giving her a distraction for biting, which is really not biting, but jumping open mouthed and coming in contact with our flesh! She hasn't got an aggressive bone in her body. She is getting bigger and more beautiful every day and I have no doubt we will make it through puppyhood with all the effort we are putting in it.

Labradorks, I think you went too far with your comments. I have no intention of surrendering Lucy to a rescue group.
As for the breeders, I think they are nice people who were overwhelmed with 2 large litters of Lab pups at once. Except for fleas, the puppies were fat and healthy. So I really don't mean to bash the breeders. This was not a puppy mill. I am a member of the HSUS and I abhor even the thought of puppy mills.

As for training: I try lots of techniques that are mentioned here, but if it doesn't work, I'll try something else no matter how well it is working for someone else''s dog. Just glad to see so many different training tips in one place!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coldwetnoz

Labradorks, I think you went too far with your comments. I have no intention of surrendering Lucy to a rescue group.

---

I was responding to your original post which states: We are even thinking that is we don't see improvement soon we may just give up the fight.

Despair. We had a dog with a behavioral problem and (after 2 major surgeries) my husband put his foot down and said, If this happens again, we have to put him down. Worst night of my life.

I get it.

(No, we didn't put him down, but the behavioral therapy cost 2K.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coldwetnoz

I am a member of the HSUS

---

I just wanted you to know that the HSUS is not a very pet friendly organization, and hardly has pet welfare in mind. In fact, they would like to see all pet ownership and companion animals come to an end, the sooner the better. Most people that support the HSUS or PETA don't realize this, and feel that they are donating for the good of the animals, when nothing could be further from the truth.

HumaneWatch | 10 Things You Should Know About HSUS

If you’re visiting this site for the first time thanks to our ad in USA Today–welcome! Here’s the full list of things you should know about the so-called “Humane Society” of the United States, starting with the three in our ad. It’s a story of financial malfeasance and misrepresentation. But the local humane societies across America are not affiliated with HSUS. So, do your research, but please try to help your local shelter. Click on the links for more information.
10 Things You Should Know About HSUS
1. HSUS raises millions of dollars from American animal lovers through manipulative advertising. An analysis of HSUS’s TV fundraising determined that more than 85 percent of the animals shown were cats and dogs. However, HSUS doesn’t run a single pet shelter and only gives 1 percent of the money it raises to pet shelters while sucking money out of local communities.
2. HSUS’s own donors and local shelters feel wronged. A poll of self-identified HSUS donors found 80 percent thought HSUS “misleads people” about their connections to pet shelters and 75 percent were less likely to support the group when they found out the truth. And according to a poll of animal shelters most agree that “HSUS misleads people into thinking it is associated with local animal shelters.”
3. HSUS puts more into its pension plan and Caribbean hedge funds than it gives to pet shelters. Between 2012 and 2014, HSUS put over $100 million in Caribbean investments while also putting nearly $10 million into its pension plan.
4. While it raises money with pictures of cats and dogs, HSUS has an anti-meat vegan agenda. Speaking to an animal rights conference in 2006, HSUS’s then-vice president for farm animal issues stated that HSUS’s goal is to “get rid of the entire [animal agriculture] industry” and that “we don’t want any of these animals to be raised and killed.”
5. In May 2014, HSUS was part of a $15.75 million settlement of a federal racketeering lawsuit. Feld Entertainment sued HSUS, two of its in-house lawyers, and others under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act for bribery, obstruction of justice, fraud, and other torts. Court documents indicate that HSUS sent several checks as part of an alleged witness-payment scheme.
6. HSUS’s senior management includes others who have voiced support for terroristic acts. HSUS chief policy officer Mike Markarian has written that “A perfect example of effective rebellion is an Animal Liberation Front raid on a laboratory.” HSUS food policy director Matt Prescott, meanwhile, has written that “I also believe in the actions of the ALF and other such groups.” (Prescott is a former PETA activist.)
7. HSUS’s senior management includes a former spokesman for the Animal Liberation Front (ALF), a criminal group designated as “terrorists” by the FBI. HSUS president Wayne Pacelle hired John “J.P.” Goodwin in 1997, the same year Goodwin described himself as “spokesperson for the ALF” while he fielded media calls in the wake of an ALF arson attack at a California meat processing plant. In 1997, when asked by reporters for a reaction to an ALF arson fire at a farmer’s feed co-op in Utah (which nearly killed a family sleeping on the premises), Goodwin replied, “We’re ecstatic.”
8. HSUS receives poor charity-evaluation marks. CharityWatch (formerly the American Institute of Philanthropy) has issued several “D” ratings for HSUS in recent years over the group’s wasteful spending practices. Additionally, the 2013 Animal People News Watchdog Report discovered that HSUS spends 55 percent of its budget on overhead costs.
9. HSUS’s CEO endorsed convicted dogfighting kingpin Michael Vick getting another pet. After Vick got out of prison, HSUS CEO Wayne Pacelle told the press that he thought Vick “would do a good job as a pet owner.” This startling comment came after Vick’s new employer, the Philadelphia Eagle, made a $50,000 “grant” to HSUS.
10. Given the massive size of its budget, HSUS does relatively little hands-on care for animals. While HSUS claims it “saves” more animals than any other animal protection group in the US, much of the “care” HSUS provides is in the form of spay-neuter assistance. In fact, local groups that operate on considerably slimmer budgets, such as the Houston SPCA, provide direct care to more animals than HSUS does.


As we’ve previously reported, only about 1% of the budget of the deceptively named Humane Society of the United States goes to local pet shelters, and the organization doesn’t operate any shelters of its own. Not that you’d learn these facts from HSUS’s ads, which are full of dogs and cats.
An examination of HSUS’s 2013 tax return (the most recent available) reveals that although the extreme animal-liberation group took in more than $130 millionin revenues, very little went to local pet shelters. How much went to help pet shelters in your state? Take a look at the map below (PDF). The answer may shock you.
https://www.humanewatch.org/wp-conte...ntages2014.jpg
Of its $130 million in revenues, HSUS gave less than $10,000 to help local pet shelters care for pets in 29 states. Shelters in 11 states – Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Iowa, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Nevada, Rhode Island, Utah, and Wyoming – didn’t receive a single dime from HSUS to help them care for pets.
If only 1% of HSUS’s budget goes to local pet shelters, where does the other 99% go? A few examples of wasteful HSUS spending:

• In the past two years, HSUS has put $50 million into Caribbean tax shelters instead of pet shelters.
• HSUS paid more than $6 million to settle a federal racketeering and bribery lawsuit brought against it and two of its in-house lawyers.
• HSUS CEO and President Wayne “I don’t love animals” Pacelle, received more than $400,000 in total compensation while the rest of staff pulled in nearly $44 million more.

Instead of funding the lavish lifestyles of HSUS execs who are socking away your donations in off-shore hedge funds, consider donating to pet shelters in your area.

This sounds like exactly how our Mellow was. She's now 8 months old & we had her since she was 6 wks old. A lot of patience & time will heal all wounds. She didn't calm down a little until the last few months. She always listened to me, but terrorized my girlfriend. Probably a dominance thing seeing me as the alpha & my girlfriend as secondary in command, by the more playful friend. She recently discovered the can-filled method where she has a can filled with pennies & it works wonders for her. I don't know if this will work for her at 3 months, but you can try. We kept teaching her not to bite by saying "no bites" & disciplining her when necessary. It's a fine balance of brute force & time outs with ours. I can tell you that she will get better. Lots of toys so she knows what is ok to chew on & what is not. We can trust her now to be home alone up to 4-5 hours & come home with nothing destroyed. Again, we watched her like hawks in the beginning & disciplined when necessary & used a lot of positive reinforcement. Also we took her puppy training classes & lots of physical activities to wear her out. The jumping thing has died down a lot too. They're very intelligent animals & I think they get bored way too easily. My girlfriend had two melt downs during the early periods with Mellow. It was torture for a little while, but we are so happy we stuck through it. She is a such a good dog now & so smart. I wish you luck & hope you stick it through. Sometimes the best ones to raise are the toughest in the very beginning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelley

I just wanted you to know that the HSUS is not a very pet friendly organization, and hardly has pet welfare in mind.

---

I kinda wanted to mention this... but I know that many contributors to HSUS have pure motives for giving.

I had a run-in with an animal rights person and the Humane Society "officer" hired by the county to do their animal control duties. It illustrates Shelley's point.

I'd been out training my dog. I parked at the ball-diamond where my grandson was playing. While I was at the game, the Animal Rights warrior attempted to open my truck and release my dog. (She had no leash. She was riding a moped. She flat out was going to release my dog and disappear.) The truck was locked. When I walked up to my truck she verbally assaulted me. In my face. Ugly. Rude. Threatening. (I still get incredibly upset when I think about it.)

So having called the Humane Society "officer", she putted off on her moped. I waited at my truck for the guy.

My truck was parked in the shade. I have an insulated cap. I had the windows open and screens down. The putative violation I'd committed was leaving a dog in a hot vehicle. I asked the officer if he could measure the temperature in my truck. He had some sort of thermister-thinger. The back of my truck read 80 degrees. I asked him to measure the ambient temperature. He read it as 111 degrees (over 30 degrees cooler inside the truck.) The high recorded by the weather service that day was 90 degrees. So his device was wildly inaccurate.

BUT... he gave me a "warning". (Had he read the temp as 81 degrees... he assured me... I would have been cited.)

I researched our state laws regarding dog containment and hot cars etc. and this "officer" was way off-base, did not know the statutes. And, basically wanted me to expose my dog to dangerous (by his measurements) temperatures in the parking lot, instead of the cooler insulated and ventilated bed of my truck. Think about that.

The point is this... it wasn't about my dog's health. For the animal rights loon and the officer, I had no right to contain my dog. End of story. That is the real and well documented agenda of today's HSUS and other animal RIGHTS (not welfare) organizations.

But not many people know this.

(When I think what might have happened if I hadn't locked my truck cap... it just makes me sick.)

This makes me ill too... Thank Dog that turned out the way it did.... I can't even imagine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mahojda80

teaching her not to bite by saying "no bites" & disciplining her when necessary. I can tell you that she will get better. Sometimes the best ones to raise are the toughest in the very beginning.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Thank you for these positive comments! Lately we have tried some of our own training techniques with her and seen results. Everytime there has been a bite, it was the result of us getting in the way of a flying happy tooth. I'll be so glad when she reaches the age when she licks us. At this point I'd love to be licked! :smile-new:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coldwetnoz

Thank you for these positive comments! Lately we have tried some of our own training techniques with her and seen results. Everytime there has been a bite, it was the result of us getting in the way of a flying happy tooth. I'll be so glad when she reaches the age when she licks us. At this point I'd love to be licked! :smile-new:

---

Good job. Just stay consistent with your standards and you'll be shaping her into a nice pet.