Things HAD been going too well :P Stairs are a No Go

I should have known, i'd been coasting mostly non stressed with Rock and seeing improvement. I got too optimistic ;)

I mentionned in another post his shoulder was off. He was more timid on stairs (going down). He had his treatment on Friday and things seemed good. I probably over did it on the walks and stairs. We took things easier on Satuday but on our third pee break of the day he wouldn't go down. He went down the turn then backed up. I tried to coax him, encourage him. Took a break. anyway long story short a big fat no on stairs. Got him down (semi-forcefully). Took a chance in hopes he wuld be ok after a night's rest we went up to bed (he was fine going up - two flights).

Anyway this morning was a disaster. I had to carry him down, which I can absolutely do safely with his harness. But that destroyed any chances of working his courage back up. I am now at a loss.

We're taking it easy for the week walk-wise. I will massage his shoulder like the vet said and will call tomorrow to see if I can give him temporary pain meds to help work his confidence again. but pretty sure my vet isn't in on Mondays :(

I live in a walk up. I can work around and sleep downstairs and spend time here but the kitchen is upstairs and lots of the normal "house stuff" will need to be up there. So it means he will be alone quite a bit more.

So - how do I go about testing to see if we can recover from this and do stairs again before giving up altogether? I don't wnat to push and ruin his confidence MORE. But I don't wnat ot wait until it's been too long since he's down stairs and he "can't" anymore. he hasn't been up again today and I think I could try again tomorrow after work. or is that still too soon. I don't want to wait TOO long where he can't do stairs at all. and if we can work his confidence where he lets me "carry him" that works but i don't see how to get there. At this point the little bit of pain has killed his confidence so it's two fold.

Poor guy, and poor you.....I hate to think that you will have to carry him up & down stairs on any frequent basis.....I guess if it were me I'd be trying the vet's for meds & then try each day & see if he feels like doing the stairs on his own before I'd try lifting him......I can't remember if he is on any meds for arthritis? My Molly is on Galliprant because she can't have Rimadyl due to her rising ALT levels. The Galliprant is really helping her so far. She is too heavy for me to lift with her harness, but dh has had to lift her into & out of the motorhome because the automatic stairs quit working. She doesn't really like being lifted though, & thinks she can jump, so that made it harder for him because she has her legs all kicking, etc. But now he made her a set of shallow steps to go in & out & she goes right up & down, looking quite happy & proud of herself! She was given Gabapentin when she was having more trouble, also, but hasn't needed that for quite awhile now.

Is there any way a ramp might be easier for him to go up & down?

Yukon wears the harness solely for the purpose of me helping him "downstairs". I try and get him to go upstairs on his own with me monitoring so it works his back end. Downstairs is a disaster waiting to happen if it's more than a few steps, I don't even risk it, even if his front end is better.

Good thoughts with you and Rock

My vet is off today, so I won't get any help there on pain meds until tomorrow morning (after I am at work - and not sure how fast I could even get my hands on them anyway). How long is the longest you'd let him rest before trying again? It's a balance between letting him rest (physically and mentally) and not waiting so long he "can't" do them.

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Originally Posted by outrag

Yukon wears the harness solely for the purpose of me helping him "downstairs". I try and get him to go upstairs on his own with me monitoring so it works his back end. Downstairs is a disaster waiting to happen if it's more than a few steps, I don't even risk it, even if his front end is better.

Good thoughts with you and Rock

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how do you help him? how much do you hold up? off the ground or just enough to keep weight off? part of the issue is getting rocky to trust me in this aspect.
he lets me walk beside holding the back end up a touch but not the front




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Oh poor Rocky. Do you know what's going on with his shoulder? Is it arthritis or something else? And is Rocky on some type of pain medication? Maybe he is reluctant to go downstairs because he's in pain.

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Originally Posted by Tanya

how do you help him? how much do you hold up? off the ground or just enough to keep weight off? part of the issue is getting rocky to trust me in this aspect.
he lets me walk beside holding the back end up a touch but not the front

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I'm not carrying Yukon, only taking the weight off going downstairs by using the front end of the help-em-up harness. It's very easy and prevents him from taking a nasty spill. I do have to lift him in and out of my vehicle, but in all other cases he's walking. When he gets to the point where he can't go "upstairs" , I'm not sure if he'll let me use the back end of the harness to assist.

So the shoulder seems to be muscle based? like you touch it and it is "jumpy". The vet felt around there I could confirm with him. I assume there may be some arthritis maybe as well. Just based on him being an old lab :P

I should have worked when he felt better to let me help lift the weight off the shoulders. He would freeze up more when I tried...he isn't sure how to lean into it yet I don't think.

I'm at a loss, Tanya....but sending tons of good thoughts that you and Rocky will be able to work around this.

This is the kind of thing that makes dogs like Chihuahuas as popular as they are, I think.

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Originally Posted by SunDance

I'm at a loss, Tanya....but sending tons of good thoughts that you and Rocky will be able to work around this.

This is the kind of thing that makes dogs like Chihuahuas as popular as they are, I think.

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Yes and this is why I want a smaller dog next time. 50-60pd tops. even if it is a lab. I want to be able to carry them. Funny - I was all "I love big dogs' but after the reality of owning and paying for a "larger" dog (rock is actually only 80 or so pounds) and having had Penny (40-45pds) I now want "medium". A bit cheaper and there is a lot to be said about being able to carry a dog if needed (though I don't think i'll be in this house when my next dog is a senior - but honestly I was lucky Rocky didn't have a shoulder in jury or knee injury or anything and that he's made it this far).

Yes small dogs are more convenient, but I still love big dogs more :)

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Originally Posted by Tanya

Yes and this is why I want a smaller dog next time. 50-60pd tops. even if it is a lab. I want to be able to carry them. Funny - I was all "I love big dogs' but after the reality of owning and paying for a "larger" dog (rock is actually only 80 or so pounds) and having had Penny (40-45pds) I now want "medium". A bit cheaper and there is a lot to be said about being able to carry a dog if needed (though I don't think i'll be in this house when my next dog is a senior - but honestly I was lucky Rocky didn't have a shoulder in jury or knee injury or anything and that he's made it this far).

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I prefer a dog I can actually play with without feeling like I'm going to break it. I even prefer sturdy cats to dainty ones.

My aging abilities was one reason I looked for a smaller dog when I got Sunnie. (smaller than a Lab)

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Originally Posted by Berna

Yes small dogs are more convenient, but I still love big dogs more :)

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:dog:

I'm so sorry you now have this to worry about. I hear you on downsizing, but I just can't I don't think...Dakota was only 60 ish lbs. And it was really difficult to carry her. More so because she was afraid and in our case a lot of pain interfered as well. And I have only 3 steps. I can't imagine a whole flight.
Anyway I agree for sure that a break is in order, just how long? I think I would do a day. Then start or try to start a new day heading right in to what you want to accomplish. Lots of cheerfulness in your voice as you coax him too. I think you'll be able to get him to relax a bit. Hugs for you both.

I had hoped to get some pain meds into him before trying just in case. easier to work on the fear part without dealing with a bit of pain but i suspect i may not get them in time. I wish I could try with a few stairs somewhere but there are no other stairs. Unless I try the ones out front. oh hang on maybe I can try that.

Rock is doing fine otherwise, but displeased at being downstairs even with me :P He wants his routine. We did zero stairs Monday. Sunday morning was just the haul down. So I need to start something today (a plan to start addressing it). It is also quite warm this week so we'd have to scale back the walks anyway. We do the around the block in the morning (he is fine for that) and puttering in the afternoon/before bed.

I found Penny very small. I was suprised to adopt a dog so small. but i really really came to love her size. She was in no way delicate and you could still really play with her. She was like 36pds when I came in, went up to 45ish at the end and should have been 40 I think (working weight). I am sure I had a 60 pounds foster that I carried up/down when he was sick. He was 100% cooperative (lethargic). I had zero issues with Penny. 60 would be hard but if the dog was trained to tolerate it, I could do it in case of emergency/1-2 a day. I think 50-60 pounds is my sweet spot. Which is "doable" for a lab (standard for a female is 55-70).

Work is getting in the way of my doing much ;)

I agree on the smaller size dog. Cracker was 88 lbs. and long-seems like it was harder for him (and me) when he was in the car and doing training exercises. Luckily I never had to carry him, but was always ready if I had to when we went for walks (three legged from his osteosarcoma).

Gabe is 55 lbs and so much easier to maneuver in all aspects.

Maybe with Rocky and trying to negotiate the stairs, try you sitting on the step you want him to go to and verbal rewarding (very happy voice).

Sending hugs and MOJO for you and Rocky. :image019:

I've come to a point in my mind where stairs will be the line where I'll be willing to use an nsaid. I wish they made electric stair lifts for big dogs. https://www.1stchoicestairlifts.com/...y-dogs-a-lift/

ps, yeah, work is an inconvenience

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Originally Posted by Sue-Ram

I've come to a point in my mind where stairs will be the line where I'll be willing to use an nsaid. I wish they made electric stair lifts for big dogs. https://www.1stchoicestairlifts.com/...y-dogs-a-lift/

ps, yeah, work is an inconvenience

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Funny thing, my dad looked into them. Some people used the human one and made it work for dogs. But with my stair set-up it would be very hard. Honestly, Rocky wasn't young when I bought the house. I KNEW we'd get here :( I could have held off for a different house but I was 5 years into my house search and had a limited entry level budget. I went with the yard and distance to work/amenities.


Update: I worked Rocky on the fronts steps (outside). it wasn't pretty and I about had a heart attack but he got down with some cheese. I had to support him so he didn't fly off. I am hoping this helped his confidence and will try again.

I finally talked ot my vet who wants to try traumeel first (holisitic pain killer). After further thought, I'm really wanting to try Metecam (which I have) or maybe tramadol so have a follow up question sent to them. I know they are risky but it'll be for 3 days, maybe 4 to see if we can get over this. from there i can try something less harmful. Also going to ask around if masssage/physio would help. Part of the issue is there are so many avenues one could try and budget is limited. Like chiro, physio, water therapy (this is a no), massage, laser, accupunture....

He seems to be adjusting more to sleeping downstairs (with me). I will have to manage when he comes up to the main floor I think (maybe 1-2x a day) and may seriously need to consider sleeping downstairs more. I'd like to get to his 13.5 birthday as close to normally as possible. To me, moving downstairs is a countdown. I'll be honest, I know our time is short. I always said i'd be shocked if he made Christmas. But it's been such a slow decline it's really really hard to say.

Also, it's a friggin heat wave here!? mid twenty's and humidex in the 30's. Sigh. I suspect THIS is also impacting how he feels overall. He is quite panty again. This is when he'd be iffier on stairs to begin with. so we have quite a few things against us.

I bought some traumeel and zeel but honestly, I am reluctant to try it, after what Capra wrote happened to Cilek with homeopathic medication. I am using what I know won't hurt him. Natural remedies can still be poison, remember that. I decided I won't use anything new with my old dog, unless it's a life-threatening situation.

Rocky was on NSAIDs before, right? I'd use these.

Funny, here i was talking to a friend about how there was little harm in trying homeopatic!

yes he was on nsaids for (almost) 2 years (daily). then his kidney values were wonky so he was taken off last August (a year ago). I know there is always a danger with nsaids but i'm about ready to take the risk for 4 days. If we need something ongoing then we'll look into safer options. In fact, I may at one point be ready to just give him the nsaids to keep him comfy even if it shortens his life (quality over quantity - but this is so much easier said than done). But I don't think were are there just quite yet. And I could try other things. I just need to tacklet he stairs and then we'll find something better for ongoing.

I asked about galliprant and it doesn't seem to be carried here. the one clicnic said it is used sorta in house in emergencies but definitely not something they give prescription for.

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Originally Posted by Tanya

Funny, here i was talking to a friend about how there was little harm in trying homeopatic!

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Here's the thread:

https://www.lab-retriever.net/board/general-health-issues/11841-acupuncture-rapid-decline.html

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Originally Posted by Berna

Here's the thread:

https://www.lab-retriever.net/board/general-health-issues/11841-acupuncture-rapid-decline.html

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I remember the thread just not that it was likely linked to homeopathy. i'll reread!

Yeah, that was an assumption. One drug in particular was mentioned to have serious side-effects. I don't know, herbs, although natural, can still be poison.

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Originally Posted by Berna

I bought some traumeel and zeel but honestly, I am reluctant to try it, after what Capra wrote happened to Cilek with homeopathic medication. I am using what I know won't hurt him. Natural remedies can still be poison, remember that. I decided I won't use anything new with my old dog, unless it's a life-threatening situation.

Rocky was on NSAIDs before, right? I'd use these.

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I was taking Ram's Traumeel and Zeel for a couple of weeks because my right hand has trigger thumb and it won't bend, but I didn't notice any difference with respect to pain or function. I don't think that they make any difference for Ram either.

Talked to vet again and stood my ground a bit more. We're doing 3-4 days of metacam (with zero plans to use it as ongoing unless needed at end of life - and I don't think we are quite at end of life stage...though I know that is coming soon enough). It's a long shot. I will try stairs Friday or Saturday. I prefer trying Friday but it makes more sense to try when I am home all day and may call a friend to help.

I had another flash, a human Rocky loves downstairs could help (motivation wise). But there has only been one human he'd literally go crazy for and I haven't seen him in many years. He loves my brother so that is also an option if my brother is game to humor me ;)

Rocky was on another homeopathic pain reliever and I saw not change so stopped (R55?) Have not heard of zeel.